Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

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Nessie..
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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby Nessie.. » 2 weeks 2 days ago (Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:35 pm)

borjastick wrote:One body found at Sobibor actually does prove that it wasn't a death camp.


There are individual bodies lying buried all over the place, left from both world wars. A buried body on its own is not much evidence of anything.

But I digress from the point.

borjastick wrote:Nessie displays all the selective memory of the holocaust believer/promoter in that he totally ignores the facts of eastern europe and Russia after the war and indeed up to the late 80s. I was born in South east London and worked in central London most of my working life. I don't think I ever met a Russian, Pole, East German etc and if I did they would have been of working age in the commercial world. So how on earth does he expect jews sent east by both Germany and Russia to have made it back across a totally changed landscape, together with a Cold War, Berlin Wall, total restrictions on personal travel and monetary controls too?


In that case, where behind the Iron Curtain did around 107,000 Dutch Jews settle? Why did none of them even make contact with those still back home. There should also be settlements of about 72,000 French, 24,000 Belgian, 65,000 Austrian, 170,000 German, 8,000 Italian and 3,500 Luxembourgers behind the Iron Curtain.

borjastick wrote:Jews are famous for being detached from their host countries. In other words jew first then nationality of birth second. My guess is that many jews who were sent east made the best of their new found circumstances, counted their lucky stars that they hadn't been sent to a 'death camp' as they had been educated to believe and enjoyed what life dished out for them, good or bad.

We all know of rich and famous jews in British politics and business such as Miliband and Robert Maxwell etc who claimed that all their close family members had been eliminated in the holocaust, thus they didn't spend time wandering around the now open borders of eastern europe searching for them after 1989.

It comes as no surprise to me that hundreds of thousands of jews sent east never surfaced again. What's true is that while we cannot exactly locate and verify their history post war, neither can Nessie except to claim they were all gassed and disappeared up a chimney or into pits. The remains of these people of course can never be shown.


The difference between us is that you cannot evidence your "guess" at all. I can show you evidence of various archaeological excavations where there are burnt remains mixed in with the earth at the locations where evidence from witnesses say people were murdered, buried, exhumed, cremated and reburied. You believe the version with no evidence at all, I prefer the version which is evidenced.



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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby Kingfisher » 2 weeks 2 days ago (Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:45 pm)

Nessie

I did not claim that this story was proof of the survival of anyone but this one man. What I do propose is that it is pretty good supporting evidence that many thousands were similarly deported. It tells us nothing of what happened to them afterwards. My point is that it is evidence that large numbers of people were deported beyond the Bug.

BR has pointed out that this particular incident precedes the opening of the AR camps and I have acknowledged this and given my response on an earlier post. I do not rule out, in the context of this particular argument, that every single one of those deported beyond the Bug died. At this point I am concerned only to evidence that movement, which in turn would seem to argue for the existence of transit camps.

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby Hannover » 2 weeks 2 days ago (Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:22 pm)

Nessie and those like him want everyone to believe that all these Jews they claim were sent east were all murdered.

Nessie and those like him say these Jews ended up in numerous huge mass graves in supposedly known locations.

Nessie and those like him claim that many of these alleged Jews sent eastward were gassed by methods which are scientifically impossible.

Recall that massive numbers were supposedly shot into mass graves outside of the labor and resettlement camps, these too are supposedly known.

But they cannot show us a single excavation and the enormous human remains that would necessarily be available for viewing if the impossible story was factual.
see:
Sobibor Jew corpses claimed here, so why don't they excavate, verify, & show the world? !!!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10610
ex.:
This is what Nessie says is proof that 250,000 jews were killed at Sobibor.
Image
see:
the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10356
ex.:
Image
Nessie's proof for 250,000 Jews murdered at Sobibor. And these few deaths could be due to anything and not even be Jews. :lol:

And as usual Nessies ignore my previous post about this thread:
see:
'J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?' / & more'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

also recommended:
'Soviets Evacuate Jews'
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... c32aef952e
and:
'Concentration Camp Vital Statistics'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7581
and:
'German Labour camps - shocking truth decrypts / Jew transits'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7298
and:
http://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/g ... r-refugees
and:
'Where did they go? Killed?'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1083
and:
“Resettlement to the East”: Thermar's Jews
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8192

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby borjastick » 2 weeks 2 days ago (Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:12 am)

I don't know how old Nessie is or what exposure he had to the real world during the sixties, seventies or eighties but he is perhaps deliberately avoiding the practicalities of it all. There was a cold war and the Berlin Wall. There was no contact between east and western real people. There was no telephone, no travel and no interaction between these two sides. Those who witnessed the Berlin Wall coming down and the appalling life those poor sods had to endure in a crumbling world of post war communism in the east would know what I mean. The dream of communism was always a nightmare it never works and certainly didn't in those hard communist states post war. It was a total disaster so what does Nessie expect of those poor sods? I mean most people queued for hours every day in Utopian Russia just for bread and that was in the cities. Those in more rural areas, and that's where I think these jews were, would be totally consumed with keeping warm, and the drudgery of daily toil than to spend time and money they didn't have to track down former family members. Get real Nessie.

How could these jews from western europe contact their old families etc in Holland, France etc? They couldn't that's the answer. many would have died in the period after the war and before the wall came down. they would have spoken Yiddish which was of course their native tongue and got along with life. If I had the time and the money I would love to go searching for these communities but that's not possible for me. So why doesn't the jewish Yad Vashem or similar, which are awash with dosh, do the job they should be doing? Because it just might reveal the truth, and that would spoil the party!

But please Nessie don't let me get in the way, if you have the evidence as you claim that you can show us for proof of hundreds of thousands of jews shot, buried, removed and cremated please show it here and now.

We'd love to see it all.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby Hannover » 2 weeks 1 day ago (Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:22 pm)

Indeed borjastick, it was called "The Iron Curtain" for good reason.

Often the most ridiculous, illogical questions are best answered in the most direct manner:

If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like "what happened to them?" :roll:

- Hannover

Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

- Gerard Menuhin / Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby Werd » 2 weeks 13 hours ago (Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:59 pm)

How could these jews from western europe contact their old families etc in Holland, France etc? They couldn't that's the answer. many would have died in the period after the war and before the wall came down. they would have spoken Yiddish which was of course their native tongue and got along with life. If I had the time and the money I would love to go searching for these communities but that's not possible for me. So why doesn't the jewish Yad Vashem or similar, which are awash with dosh, do the job they should be doing? Because it just might reveal the truth, and that would spoil the party!


But, but, but the red cross has been trying for years to do this with no success. Therefore the holocaust happened.

:lol:

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby Hannover » 1 week 5 days ago (Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:00 pm)

As posted by Reviso at:

'Hinrich Lohse documents : their story'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10878

We clearly see that The Rabbit's previously cited 'Lohse letter' is further debunked:

Widukind in his text "Gas Vans – forgeries galore! ", part II,
https://codoh.com/library/document/350/
writes :
The Lohse "documents" have a curious history: In 1945, a Jewish-American Sergeant attached to the U.S. 82nd Airborne Division claimed to have found these documents among Alfred Rosenberg's files. The Sergeant's name was Szajko Frydman. These "documents" are unique in that they were "processed" at the Yiddish Scientific Institute (In New York City!), before they were sent on to Nuremberg, Germany. Mr. Frydman also has the distinction of serving as a staff member at the Yivo Institute both BEFORE and AFTER his service in the U.S. Army.

- Hannover

"The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny. The tide is turning."
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby CWhite » 1 week 5 days ago (Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:39 pm)

Nessie.. wrote:The survival and return of Manfred Alexander is no more evidence that the jews removed from Germany were resettled in the east, than a body buried at Sobibor is evidence it was a death camp.

To evidence mass survival and resettlement requires evidence of where the millions of Jews removed from their homes by the Nazis ended up. Denialism has not been able to evidence where those people ended up...


So where did the jews who were transited to Sobibor end up?

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby Hektor » 1 week 2 days ago (Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:54 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:The German "liquidiert" / "liquidierung" does not necessarily mean murder, as has been discussed aplenty at this forum.

Considering Kube wrote that "... 6,000 Jews and Jewesses are still alive ... [... 6.000 russische Juden und Judinnen am Leben]", it follows that, in this context, "liquidiert" does indeed mean 'killed'; they weren't "still alive".[/quote]

Actually: "are still alive" would be "sind noch am Leben" / "Juden am Leben" translates to: "Jews are living (there)."

A small but meaningful difference. It seems translators are letting their bias slip into translations.

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby cold beer » 1 week 2 days ago (Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:21 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:There's a famous document that supports the claim his parents were killed in Minsk whilst he—a young man—would have remained alive: Wilhelm Kube to Hinrich Lohse, 31 July 1942 [PS-3428]:
In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on 28 and 29 July, 6,500 of whom were Russian Jews—mainly old people, women, and children—the remainder consisted of Jews unfit for work, most of whom had been sent to Minsk from Vienna, Brno, Bremen, and Berlin in November of the previous year at the Fuehrer's orders. [...]

In the town of Minsk, 2,600 Jews from Germany have been left over. Besides, all the 6,000 Jews and Jewesses are still alive who have been working, during the action, with the units who had employed them previously. Even in the future the largest Jewish labor force will be in Minsk, since the centralization of armament industries and the burden on the railways makes this necessary for the time being.

Document posted here: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=77697#p77697
English translation from NMT 4:192: https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/NT_war-criminals_Vol-IV.pdf

A few questions
How is this document famous?
I hear and read rhetoric like this frequently, it seems to be a tactic employed that attempts to cement documents as authentic. Surely no one is about to call this document into question after it's been labeled 'famous'.
How can you demonstrate that this document is authentic?
And where in the above translation do you see any reference to jews being murdered?
I watch Shoah Foundation interviews and see jews say that their ghetto was liquidated and they were taken to one camp or another.
Last edited by cold beer on Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby cold beer » 1 week 2 days ago (Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:30 pm)

Hektor wrote:
TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:The German "liquidiert" / "liquidierung" does not necessarily mean murder, as has been discussed aplenty at this forum.

Considering Kube wrote that "... 6,000 Jews and Jewesses are still alive ... [... 6.000 russische Juden und Judinnen am Leben]", it follows that, in this context, "liquidiert" does indeed mean 'killed'; they weren't "still alive".


Actually: "are still alive" would be "sind noch am Leben" / "Juden am Leben" translates to: "Jews are living (there)."

A small but meaningful difference. It seems translators are letting their bias slip into translations.


And if that's the case ( I trust that you're correct, I don't speak or read German) then the document states that 10,000 jews who can't be used for industrial work have been moved out. 2600 have been left behind to join the 6000 already working there.

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby cold beer » 1 week 2 days ago (Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:51 pm)

Nessie.. wrote:The difference between us is that you cannot evidence your "guess" at all. I can show you evidence of various archaeological excavations where there are burnt remains mixed in with the earth at the locations where evidence from witnesses say people were murdered, buried, exhumed, cremated and reburied. You believe the version with no evidence at all, I prefer the version which is evidenced.

I would be very interested in seeing this alleged evidence.

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby Hannover » 1 week 2 days ago (Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:35 pm)

cold beer wrote:
TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:There's a famous document that supports the claim his parents were killed in Minsk whilst he—a young man—would have remained alive: Wilhelm Kube to Hinrich Lohse, 31 July 1942 [PS-3428]:
In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on 28 and 29 July, 6,500 of whom were Russian Jews—mainly old people, women, and children—the remainder consisted of Jews unfit for work, most of whom had been sent to Minsk from Vienna, Brno, Bremen, and Berlin in November of the previous year at the Fuehrer's orders. [...]

In the town of Minsk, 2,600 Jews from Germany have been left over. Besides, all the 6,000 Jews and Jewesses are still alive who have been working, during the action, with the units who had employed them previously. Even in the future the largest Jewish labor force will be in Minsk, since the centralization of armament industries and the burden on the railways makes this necessary for the time being.

Document posted here: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=77697#p77697
English translation from NMT 4:192: https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/NT_war-criminals_Vol-IV.pdf

A few questions
How is this document famous?
I hear and read rhetoric like this frequently, it seems to be a tactic employed that attempts to cement documents as authentic. Surely no one is about to call this document into question after it's been labeled 'famous'.
How can you demonstrate that this document is authentic?
And where in the above translation do you see any reference to jews being murdered?
I watch Shoah Foundation interviews and see jews say that their ghetto was liquidated and they were taken to one camp or another.

And if such actions had occurred we would be seeing mass graves for days, after all, their locations would have been well known.
Combine that with it being another YIVO sourced phony 'document' submitted at Nuremberg and we have just another impossible claim within an impossible 'holocaust' narrative as a whole.

more here:
'Hinrich Lohse documents : their story'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10878

- Hannover

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
Arthur Schopenhauer
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Shipped to the East: the evidence is in the MSM

Postby cold beer » 6 days 13 hours ago (Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:01 pm)

Hannover wrote:
cold beer wrote:
TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:There's a famous document that supports the claim his parents were killed in Minsk whilst he—a young man—would have remained alive: Wilhelm Kube to Hinrich Lohse, 31 July 1942 [PS-3428]:

A few questions
How is this document famous?
I hear and read rhetoric like this frequently, it seems to be a tactic employed that attempts to cement documents as authentic. Surely no one is about to call this document into question after it's been labeled 'famous'.
How can you demonstrate that this document is authentic?
And where in the above translation do you see any reference to jews being murdered?
I watch Shoah Foundation interviews and see jews say that their ghetto was liquidated and they were taken to one camp or another.

And if such actions had occurred we would be seeing mass graves for days, after all, their locations would have been well known.
Combine that with it being another YIVO sourced phony 'document' submitted at Nuremberg and we have just another impossible claim within an impossible 'holocaust' narrative as a whole.

more here:
'Hinrich Lohse documents : their story'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10878

- Hannover

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
Arthur Schopenhauer

This is eye opening.
Just to make sure I understand this correctly, jews with the full cooperation of the US military were allowed to take into their possession document books from German archives, ship them back to a jew NGO where they would be trusted to examine these document books to produce without oversite,
'evidence' used at war crimes trials?
Without concern that they would be compelled to forge incriminating documents or destroy exculpatory evidence?


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