An Overview

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Hegwood
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An Overview

Postby Hegwood » 3 months 1 week ago (Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:51 pm)

The Holocaust
The following is an overview or brief summary of the Holocaust. When I began an investigation into the Holocaust denial controversy, I found that I knew very little about the Holocaust itself. In particular, I did not have any overall concept of what it was. The common sources of information on the subject, such as the United States Holocaust Memorial and Museum (USHMM), seemed to avoid presenting a clear summary of where, when, and how 6,000,000 people were murdered. Be it noted, however, except for the account of victims by site or action the following heavily relies on USHMM information.

What is the Holocaust? It is a claim that during World War II the National Socialist government of Germany tried to kill everyone with a significant number of Jewish ancestors. It is further claimed that this attempted genocide of Jews resulted in the death of 6,000,000 of their number.

Where did it happen? Where were 6,000,000 people murdered? To my knowledge there is no widely accepted tabulation of holocaust victims by death camp, other location, or action. The only one that I am aware of is from Raul Hilberg’s The Destruction of the European Jews. Table B-1, page 1219, of the 1985 edition of that work, is a summary of Holocaust deaths by camp or specific action. Five major groupings account for well over ninety percent of his alleged victims. These categories are the Action Reinhardt killing centers, Einsatzgruppen executions, Auschwitz gas chambers, general deprivation in ghettos, and the Chelmno and Majdanek camps in Poland. I've added an "all other" to account for smaller numbers.
The goupings are:
Action Reinhardt (Treblinka, Belsec, Sobibor camps) - 1,500,000 gassing victims
Einsatzgruppen, executions in towns and villages - 1,300,000 firing squad victims
Auschwitz, mostly in gas chambers - 1,000,000 mostly gassing victims
Ghettorization&Occupation - 800,000 general deprivation victims
Kulmhof/Chelmno and Lublin/Majdanek - 200,000 primarily gassing victims
All other including the well known camps in Germany - 300,000 of various causes
Total 5,100,000
The above total is short of the 6,000,000 but that doesn't detract from the stories impact.

The reader should not be too critical of the foregoing summary. Despite claims that the Holocaust is well documented the opposite is true. Very little, in truth an insignificant amount is well documented. All of the above numbers are estimates. None of the executions whether by Einsatzgruppen, in gas chambers, or in the ghettos are documented. There are no lists of victims. There is no count of the dead not even a record of the number of times executions were carried out. The few documented deaths are from disease or other natural causes plus some disciplinary executions.
Although this post tries to brief a little additional information seems necessary. Following are some additional details of the five major categories, or sub-stories if you will.

Action Reinhardt Camps
Between March 1942 and November 1943 it is claimed that 1,500,000 Jews were murdered in the Action Reinhardt camps of Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor. Hilberg puts the respective deaths at 750,000; 550,000; and 200,000. Together they were the most deadly killing centers. These three camps were located in what is today eastern Poland, not far from the borders with Belarus and Ukraine. These were pure extermination camps. Only prisoners needed to operate the camps were allowed to live. All others were executed immediately upon arrival. These camps began operation in March 1942 and were closed in the fall of 1943.

What is known about the operation of these camps is largely based on the reports of two Jews who claimed to be members of the Jewish forced laborers at Treblinka – Yankel Wiernik and Chil Rajchman.
Briefly, their description was: Jews arrived in trains of twenty or more carloads, disembarked and were stripped of all possessions. The men were then separated from the women and children. Both groups would be told to remove all clothes to take a shower. Instead they were then forced into a building where they were killed by a poisonous gas. Wiernik said it was diesel engine exhaust gas but Rajchman wasn’t sure. They were all dead within minutes and the earlier victims were buried in large mass graves. In order to eliminate evidence of this massive crime, later victims were cremated. The previously buried corpses were also exhumed and cremated.

Since there were no crematory facilities at any of the Action Reinhardt camps open air cremation was used. The following is part of Rajchman’s description of the cremations:
“He [the “cremation expert”] had laid out more than thirty meters of railway gauge. Right on top of the ground a pair of concrete foundations were cast, both with a height of approximately 50 centimeters. ... On top of the foundations six railway rails were placed, that was all. The expert ordered us to put women, particularly fat women, on the first layer on the roast, face down. The second layer could consist of whatever was brought – men, women or children – and so on, layer upon layer like a pyramid, up to a height of two meter."
"... Then the "expert" ordered us to lay dry branches under the roast and to light them. Within a few minutes the fire would take so it was difficult to approach the crematorium from as far as fifty meters away.”
Wiernik provided a similar description of the cremation. His words were "The workers piled the corpses on the grate and set them on fire." and “It turned out that bodies of women burned more easily than those of men. Accordingly, the bodies of women were used for kindling the fires.” The cremations resulted in only ashes leaving no recognizable human remains as evidence of the massive crime.

Belzec and Sobibor were operated the same way. There are very limited eye witness accounts of operation of these camps. Apparently, this scarcity of testimony leads Holocaust scholars to describe their operation as the same as Treblinka. The United States Holocaust Museum and Memorial (USHMM) descriptions of operation of the three camps are brief but are nearly identical.

Einsatzgruppen
The next largest category of victims was those execution by firing squads – 1,300,000. After Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941 special squads called Einsatzgruppen -Operation Groups- rounded up Jews in towns and cities marched them to the outskirts of town executed them and buried them in mass graves. Executions were carried out in small groups of a few individuals as well as groups of dozens, hundreds , or even thousands.

The best known execution of this type occurred at Babi Yar, a ravine on the outskirts of Kiev, Ukraine, where 33,000 of the city’s Jewish residents were executed and buried.

No one has ever found any of these no mass graves. In June 1942 Himmler ordered all evidence of the Einsatzgruppen executions destroyed. All bodies were exhumed and burned in a manner similar to the Treblinka cremations leaving absolutely no physical evidence that these million plus murder victims ever existed, not even in Babi Yar whose location is exactly known.

Auschwitz
Auschwitz, located in what is now southern Poland, was the largest of the German concentration camps. It actually consisted of three camps - Auschwitz I, Auschwitz II (Birkenau), and Auschwitz III (Monowitz). Auschwitz II (Birkenau) was by far the largest of the three. It had the barracks that housed the majority of the inmates and also the four large crematoria/gas chambers.
Auschwitz is almost synonymous with the Holocaust. However, Hilberg found it was only the third most deadly of the major groupings. Here approximately 1,000,000 Jews were murdered in gas chambers between September 1941 and November 1944.
Despite claims of efficient mass murder methods, the so-called “machinery of death” was rather crude. Jews to be gassed were herded into rooms originally built as morgues - “leichenkellar” in German. These rooms had no plumbing thru which the poison gas was introduced. In particular they did not have the fake shower heads often mentioned by eye-witnesses. Instead, Zyclon B pellets were poured through holes in the roofs or through windows. Hydrogen cyanide released from the pellets killed all within minutes. Sondercommando workers entered the chambers immediately and carried the bodies to the crematoria located in the same building.
As previously noted there are absolutely no records of the exterminations at Auschwitz. Those deemed useful for labor were selected for registration in the camp and their lives and activities are well documented. All others were sent to the gas chambers. There is no indication that they were even counted. There is not even a record of how often the makeshift chambers were used.

Ghettorization & Occupation
Hilberg attributes 800,000 holocaust deaths to general deprivation primarily in ghettos established for Jews in all larger cities in Eastern Europe. Also, certain Jews from Germany proper were deported to Theresienstadt, a ghetto in the what is now the Czech Republic.
Ghettos existed pretty much from the beginning of German occupation to their retreat. Deaths resulted from disease caused by crowded conditions and general deprivation.

Kulmhof/Chelmno and Lublin/Majdanek
These two camps were similar to the Action Reinhardt camps. Majdanek comes up often the story but I know little about it. The same is true for the less often mentioned Chelmo. Since Hilberg claims 200,000 were killed in them but the USHMM has a death total of 600,000, I doubt that more research would add anything to this overview.

All Others
The concentration camps in Germany proper are in the catch-all category of "All Other". Total Jewish deaths in these camps were less than 150,000 . The majority of whom died of typhus in the last three months of the war. These were the camps liberated by the Westen Allies forces in April and May 1945. The horrible conditions in these camps were filmed and used extensively in anti-German propaganda and to support the alleged Holocaust. Both the reason for the conditions as well as deceptive practices used in leads to valid criticism of these films.



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Hegwood
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Re: An Overview

Postby Hegwood » 3 months 1 week ago (Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:05 pm)

The foregoing summary is intended for newcomers to this site. It is hoped it will help them understand the more specific discussions of the members of this site without investing hours in research.

I believe the site administrators should make this a sticky post or write their own overview of the Holocaust and in some way make it readily available to new and casual viewers.

Just to be sure no one takes this as my belief. To me the story is totally bogus. About the only thing factual about it is the setting. The camps existed as detention and work camps and Germany did occupy eastern Europe during part of WWII.

It's not questionable story because laws have been passed to keep skeptics from stating their views of it.
It's not suspicious because the Germans would not have used such crude methods.
It's not a lie just because its creators and promoters are proven liars.

IT DIDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE KEY PARTS OF IT ARE SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE!!!!


Since it is a total fabrication the numbers and methods vary considerably between Holocaust experts and there is not much point in corrected Hilburg's figures.

Hegwood

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Re: An Overview

Postby Moderator » 3 months 1 week ago (Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:26 pm)

Thanks, Hegwood.
Let's see what others say about making it a 'sticky'.
Best, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: An Overview

Postby Kingfisher » 3 months 1 week ago (Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:45 am)

Moderator wrote:Thanks, Hegwood.
Let's see what others say about making it a 'sticky'.
Best, M1

Definitely. First-class job, Heywood.

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Re: An Overview

Postby borjastick » 3 months 1 week ago (Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:21 am)

Gets my thumbs up. Very good and as you say for a newbie it hits the important spots very clearly.

I might add some comments and amends to direct to some further info but all in all a super summary.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: An Overview

Postby Review » 3 months 1 week ago (Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:29 am)

I'd suggest that the orthodox/exterminationist vs. revisionist storyline are to be somehow marked, if this is made into a sticky ?

Something like this, maybe:

Orthodox claims: What is the Holocaust? It is a claim that during World War II the National Socialist government of Germany tried to kill everyone with a significant number of Jewish ancestors. It is further claimed that this attempted genocide of Jews resulted in the death of 6,000,000 of their number....

Revisionist position: The reader should not be too critical of the foregoing summary. Despite claims that the Holocaust is well documented the opposite is true. Very little, in truth an insignificant amount is well documented. All of the above numbers are estimates. None of the executions whether by Einsatzgruppen, in gas chambers, or in the ghettos are documented...

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Re: An Overview

Postby Hegwood » 3 months 1 week ago (Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:26 am)

Review

It was my intention to just post the orthodox position, in so much as a single position could be ascertained. It was difficult to keep my skeptical comments out of it. Some had to be removed just before posting. Hopefully, you won't find too many pure revisionist positions in the write-up.

The comment about lack of documentation was left in since many so-called Holocaust scholars grudgingly concede to it, as was acknowledged by Léon Poliakov as long ago as 1951. (Refer to The Myth of the Extermination of the Jews: Part 1, by Carlo Mattogno).

Even the USHMM acknowledges this lack of documentation. Borjastick's post, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11009, contains a link to the USHMM website that states the difficulty in determining the number of alleged victims.

Also, that link is to a summary that I couldn't find about five years ago. Of course since there is no basis for either their numbers or Hilberg's , they don't agree.

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Re: An Overview

Postby xzw » 2 months 3 days ago (Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:50 pm)

Ive got to say that your overview is really dissapointing me. The tone of your writing tells me your highly skeptical of the Holocoust, maybe even denial it. But Ill guarantee you this. If you come for a visit to Israel, Im buiyng you a ticket to Yad Vashem Museum, for you to see the facts IN your eyes and not only in some kind of material.

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Re: An Overview

Postby Hannover » 2 months 3 days ago (Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:57 pm)

xzw wrote:Ive got to say that your overview is really dissapointing me. The tone of your writing tells me your highly skeptical of the Holocoust, maybe even denial it. But Ill guarantee you this. If you come for a visit to Israel, Im buiyng you a ticket to Yad Vashem Museum, for you to see the facts IN your eyes and not only in some kind of material.

"Skeptical"?
Not even that.
There is no reason to believe in something that is scientifically impossible.

So what's at this "Yad Vashem" that proves the '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers'?
Be specific.

And you did say "buy", hence it's said that "There's no business like shoah business".

Welcome, Hannover
"One should not ask, how this mass murder was made possible. It was technically possible, because it happened. This has to be the obligatory starting-point for any historical research regarding this topic. We would just like to remind you: There is no debate regarding the existence of the gas chambers, and there can never be one."

- endorsed by 34 "reputable historians" and published in the French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: An Overview

Postby Hektor » 2 months 2 days ago (Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:05 pm)

xzw wrote:Ive got to say that your overview is really dissapointing me. The tone of your writing tells me your highly skeptical of the Holocoust, maybe even denial it. But Ill guarantee you this. If you come for a visit to Israel, Im buiyng you a ticket to Yad Vashem Museum, for you to see the facts IN your eyes and not only in some kind of material.


Wow, you managed to make a statement without naming what you claim nor mentioning any facts that support it.

But in case you wonder, Revisionists deal with all the available facts and it doesn't look to good for the standard Holocaust claims they dispute.

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Re: An Overview

Postby borjastick » 2 months 2 days ago (Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:26 pm)

Hektor wrote:
xzw wrote:Ive got to say that your overview is really dissapointing me. The tone of your writing tells me your highly skeptical of the Holocoust, maybe even denial it. But Ill guarantee you this. If you come for a visit to Israel, Im buiyng you a ticket to Yad Vashem Museum, for you to see the facts IN your eyes and not only in some kind of material.


Wow, you managed to make a statement without naming what you claim nor mentioning any facts that support it.

But in case you wonder, Revisionists deal with all the available facts and it doesn't look to good for the standard Holocaust claims they dispute.


Blimey they make you pay for a ticket????? Surely it should be free what with their holocaust generated super funds and all that brainwashing to be done.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Hektor
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Re: An Overview

Postby Hektor » 2 months 2 days ago (Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:05 pm)

borjastick wrote:.....

Blimey they make you pay for a ticket????? Surely it should be free what with their holocaust generated super funds and all that brainwashing to be done.

Well, they should have have a web site? Yes Yad vashem has got one. Should be no problem to point to all the convincing evidence, if it is on there? But I seriously doubt that. Otherwise our new friend would have posted them.

So it's playing hide and seek with the supposed evidence again.

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Re: An Overview

Postby hermod » 2 months 1 day ago (Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:33 am)

xzw wrote:Ill guarantee you this. If you come for a visit to Israel, Im buiyng you a ticket to Yad Vashem Museum, for you to see the facts IN your eyes and not only in some kind of material.


Image
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: An Overview

Postby Dresden » 2 months 1 day ago (Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:25 pm)

hermod wrote:
xzw wrote:Ill guarantee you this. If you come for a visit to Israel, Im buiyng you a ticket to Yad Vashem Museum, for you to see the facts IN your eyes and not only in some kind of material.


Image


"Faith is believing what you know ain't so"
-- Mark Twain
"I am willing to go to prison for the sake of the truth and the German nation. ... You are determined to destroy my convictions by imprisoning me, but it is beyond your power to do so." - Sylvia Stolz

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Re: An Overview

Postby ginger » 2 months 1 day ago (Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:44 pm)

It would be a tool to facilitate debate - but I would mark it "Official Holocaust Narrative" and somehow distinguish it for the usual posts on this forum. Just to post it with no caveat would be confusing.


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