We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

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hermod
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Re: We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

Postby hermod » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:04 am)

You don't need to "debunk Holocaust denial myths," Mr. Furedi. You just need to prove the Holo-scam myths by means of evidence consistent with the evidential standards of the 20th & 21st centuries. Just like any accuser in this world...

The kangaroo court gathered in Nuremberg after the end of WW2 was not "bound by technical rules of evidence" and did "not require proof of facts of common knowledge." But those days of easy lynching party against the vanquished are over now. Time to behave like real researchers or shut up.


"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

Postby borjastick » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:38 am)

Jacob Furedi.jpg
Jacob Furedi.jpg (54.75 KiB) Viewed 403 times


I've been trying to find out a little more about Jacob Furedi. I'm somewhat confused and disappointed. I expected an ageing jewish scholar but found a twelve year old...

I'd like to send him a document so if someone has a postal address for him can you pm me please.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

Postby Kingfisher » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:03 am)

Jacob Furedi is the son of Frank Furedi and both write for Spiked, a curious but interesting outfit of former Trotskyites turned libertarian contrarians. I go to their site quite often for their willingness to question the progressive consensus and because a fair number of below the line commenters are sceptical of the Big H. Google them.

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Re: We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

Postby Werd » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:57 am)

cold beer wrote:
Hannover wrote:
CognitiveDestruction wrote:I like how Holocaust revisionism isn't really banned in any universities though. They can take the books off the shelves all they want, but people can still buy them online and walk into the library with them. Hell, I walk into my public library and nobody even cares I read them.

'holocaust' Revisionism is most certainly banned.

I challenge you to point out a university course where Revisionist books are assigned, courses where Revisionist points are allowed & discussed.

- Hannover

rooftop of crematorium no. 2 at Auschwitz / alleged 'gas chamber'
Image
Taken January/February 1943 where there are no little 'chimneys' / columns for the alleged insertion of Zyklon-B / cyanide.
The 'chimneys' / columns are claimed to have been ca. 2 feet high. The snow is 2-3 inches high. According to Auschwitz "expert" Robert Jan Van Pelt the 'chimneys' / insertion columns, which were said to protrude out from the roof, were added as an adaptation in August, 1942.

When was that building completed?
I'm asking because the dormers don't look like they are finished, there appears to be no roof over them.

From:
"Black Rabbit of Inle' says these photos prove the 'gassing of Jews' / but ...."

"by looking at the January and February photos, it clearly means that the concrete lids were put in after the February photo. "
- Werd. Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:48 pm

&
From Renk's article.

Image
Birkenau crematory structure (Krema) II, in a German photograph taken in late January 1943.

Image
In the background of this February 1943 photograph is the south side of Birkenau crematory structure (Krema) II.

Provan and Hans BOTH claim that the January photograph was taken before the chimneys were added. Again, Renk proves this is what Provan thinks.
There exists, however, another ground photo, taken in late January 1943, which shows nothing but an eloquent blanket of snow on the completed roof of the Leichenkeller.[20] If, as van Pelt maintains, the holes had been included in the original concrete pour of the roof, it would have been senseless and potentially hazardous for the chimney surrounds to have been formed and poured appreciably later than the roof was completed. Aside from the inefficiency in construction technique, leaving the holes unprotected for weeks in winter would have caused massive waterproofing problems.[21]

Cross-examined by Irving about this picture, Van Pelt was quite unable to explain the absence of the holes and of their superstructures (or chimneys) that he identified in the February 1943 picture (above). At first, on January 26, van Pelt stated that the chimneys could not be seen because they were buried under earth and snow:

OK. Then the explanation is simple. What happens is that after the dirt was brought on top of the roof of the gas chamber or morgue No. 1, the protection [protrusion] would have been less. If we then had snow on top of that, it is very unlikely we would have seen much of these little chimneys.[22]

Two days later, evidently recognizing his mistake, van Pelt changed his testimony. Realizing that the photo shows that there were only a few inches of snow on the roof, he stated that the holes would have been covered with boards, implying that the introduction chimneys had not yet been built in late January.[23] Van Pelt's radical modification of his interpretation of this basic document, which must have been known to him, neither inspires confidence in his expertise nor in his claim that holes were made in the roof of Leichenkeller 1 of Crematorium II at the time it was constructed.

For Provan, on the other hand, this photo shows:

… the clearest view of the gas chamber in any of the three [Kamann photos], before the roof was covered with earth. The roof is covered with snow, and no vents for Zyklon B are visible. Since the picture is dated from January 20–22 1943, we can deduce that any holes for Zyklon B insertion must have been put in after that date.[24]

That the Kamann ground photo of late January 1943 offers no evidence whatsoever for van Pelt's unlikely hypothesis of invisible holes covered with similarly invisible boards, with the concrete chimneys yet to be added, is all too obvious. Provan is quite right to argue that the photo militates against the construction of holes and chimneys by the date it was taken, and to recognize that in fact the picture provides no evidence that the holes and chimneys were ever added. On the ground photos of the roof of the alleged gas chamber, then, we have anything but a convergence of interpretation of the evidence from these two researchers.

Therefore, since they point to those chimneys in the February photo, we have them with no choice but to claim what I summarized in point number 5 as you enumerated it. I'm just rephrasing their arguments and simplifying them so we know what they are and can then argue against them.

-Werd Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:17 pm

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Re: We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

Postby borjastick » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:12 am)

For Provan, on the other hand, this photo shows:

… the clearest view of the gas chamber in any of the three [Kamann photos], before the roof was covered with earth. The roof is covered with snow, and no vents for Zyklon B are visible. Since the picture is dated from January 20–22 1943, we can deduce that any holes for Zyklon B insertion must have been put in after that date.[24]
Isn't this just another version of Eric saying that as we cannot prove where those sent to Treblinka went they were necessarily murdered there?

IOW as they are not present in the photo they were installed later. These people are so full of it. Maybe the answer is a whole lot more simple than that. Maybe as the insertion chimneys are not shown it's because they were never there. Doh!
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

Postby Kingfisher » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:39 pm)

borjastick wrote:I've been trying to find out a little more about Jacob Furedi. I'm somewhat confused and disappointed. I expected an ageing jewish scholar but found a twelve year old...

I'd like to send him a document so if someone has a postal address for him can you pm me please.

I gave you a partial answer to this above but you seem to have missed it:
Jacob Furedi is the son of Frank Furedi and both write for Spiked, a curious but interesting outfit of former Trotskyites turned libertarian contrarians. I go to their site quite often for their willingness to question the progressive consensus and because a fair number of below the line commenters are sceptical of the Big H. Google them.

If you want a postal address its:
spiked
27 Holywell Row
London
EC2A 4JB
United Kingdom

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Re: We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

Postby cold beer » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:53 pm)

Hannover wrote:
cold beer wrote:Great, there's one other question...
Am I correct in recalling that the purpose, or one of the key purposes, for those 'kula columns' was to provide a means to remove the zyklon pellets after the victims were gassed?

Yes, but removing the columns filled with the alleged Zyklon-B still releasing it's cyanide load would have meant that the entire area was in serious danger of being gassed for hours. Remember, the alleged gassing process supposedly only took minutes, but Zyklon-B takes hours to release its cyanide load.
Then there is the alleged next batch of 2000 Jews supposedly waiting alongside the 'gas chamber' for 'their turn' ... in the first place they would have seen the SS man placing the alleged columns in and then removing the columns.
And then these alleged waiting Jews would have suffered the effects, panicked, etc. .... some 'shower surprise' that would have been.*

* See my step-by-step debunking of the alleged gassing process here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10798&p=80969&hilit=hannover+asmarques#p80969

It's also said that the absurd columns assisted the Zyklon-B granules in getting plenty of air, required for releasing the cyanide.
In fact, the opposite would have been true. The sides of the alleged columns would have compressed, compacted the Zyklon-B granuales, inhibiting the flow of air.

recommended:
'alleged 'gas chambers' device debunked by Dr. Countess
viewtopic.php?t=1004

and:
'Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111
search that thread for Kula

Image
Image

- Hannover

We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.


I have re-read the vast majority of the material from those links, thank you for posting them.
My aim in asking is why when kremas 4&5 were built suddenly there was no longer a need to remove the pellets.
And after progessing to roof hatches in the 2nd & 3rd incarnation of gas chambers (krema1 & krema 2/3), which can be assumed is done to ensure a better distribution they then regress back to pouring the zyklon in at the walls (kremas 4&5), like the did at the 'bunkers', but this time through windows!

This makes for a progression in the design that is very hard to accept especially given the fact the the 2 pairs of gas chambers at birkenau were built very close on the time line to each other. (which is the reason I was trying to pin down dates)

As far as removal of the pellets, I don't see an opportunity to make a strong argument against a claim that they had workers outfitted with gas masks who quickly pulled the pellets out and walked them over to an open area, there's plenty of open space in the immediate area.
And they could claim that those waiting to be gassed were kept on the other side of the building.
The fact that they would be not able to get rid of the previous batch of bodies fast enough, as you and others have said, to have a group waiting to be gassed, negates any need to use the pellets as part of that argument.

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Re: We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

Postby Hannover » 2 months 1 week ago (Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:11 pm)

cb:
I have re-read the vast majority of the material from those links, thank you.
1. My purpose is to ask why when kremas 4&5 were built suddenly there was no longer a need to remove the pellets.
And after progessing to roof hatches in the 2nd & 3rd incarnation of gas chambers (krema1 & krema 2/3), which can be assumed (it's better to verify) is done to ensure a better distribution they then regress back to pouring the zyklon in at the walls (kremas 4&5), like the did at the 'bunkers', but this time through windows!

This makes for a progression in the design that is very hard to accept especially given the fact the the 2 pairs of gas chambers at birkenau were built very close on the time line to each other. (which is the reason I was trying to pin down dates)

2. As far as removal of the pellets, I don't see an opportunity to make a strong argument against a claim that they had workers outfitted with gas masks who quickly pulled the pellets out and walked them over to an open area, there's plenty of open space in the immediate area.

1. Indeed, the alleged construction of 4 & 5 made no sense when compared to the alleged construction of 2 & 3. Yet another gaping hole in the storyline. This been mentioned by Rudolf, Crowell, Faurisson, & others.

2. So how could the alleged SS man in a gas mask insert & remove Zyklon-B while 2000 Jews would have been watching? Not only would they have been alarmed and panicked at the sight of a man allegedly wearing a gas mask and carry a load of Zyklon-B, they would have been effected by the cyanide.

Plus, where would the alleged SS man in a gas mask put the Zyklon-B? One needs a lot more than an 'open space' to safely allow Zyklon-B to emit it's cyanide load, which would taken 2 hours or more. There would have been wind, workers, German staff nearby.
Not a good way to maintain what is claimed to have been a 'top secret' operation. :roll:

Also remember the entire alleged gassing process is said to have taken just minutes and a new batch was brought in, & repeated, & repeated. Someone running around with a load of cyanide emitting Zyklon-B would certainly have used quite a bit of time.
The idea is simply preposterous.

Please read the link I previously gave you:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10798&p=80969&hilit=hannover+asmarques#p80969

Regards, Hannover

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DT/gcturen.html
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum displays standard German air-raid shelter door, describing it as the door to a gas chamber at Majdanek.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: We won't debunk Holocaust denial myths if they are banned from our bookshelves- Jacob Furedi

Postby gandalfssocks » 2 months 1 week ago (Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:55 pm)

When Ken Livingstone started rabbiting on about how Hitler "supported Zionism", his ludicrous distortion of 20th century history was swiftly rubbished by anyone and everyone who could be bothered to open a history book. But warped sensitivities to the Second World War aren’t simply confined to the Labour Party, and a number of organisations have directed their attention onto the equally spurious doctrine of Holocaust denial.


Maybe Ken should have quoted Anny Stern?

''Are you a Zionist?'' Adolph Eichmann, Hitler's specialist on Jewish affairs, asked her. ''Jawohl,'' she replied. ''Good,'' he said, ''I am a Zionist, too. I want every Jew to leave for Palestine.'' Anny and her family lived in Palestine for a number of years and then emigrated once more, to New York City.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/17/books/hell-s-own-cookbook.html


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