Searching for Truth

[offlineExgreenberet]

Hello, my name is Clyde. I'm a new member here. I came here as a result of hearing so much about "holocaust deniers" that I started a study of why anyone could possibly believe that the holocaust did not take place.

After searching through many other web sites (most of them hate-filled) I came across this one. I have to say, I am in absolute shock and astonishment over the evidence that is presented on this site. I also appreciate how this evidence is presented in a factual manner.

Now I have a question. Who is responding (on the pro-holocaust side) to the evidence being presented on this site? I would like to compare, point by point, the evidence on both sides of this issue.

I came to this study with an open mind and am willing to look critically at beliefs I have held my whole life. To be able to come to a reasonable conclusion, I need to see the facts presented from both sides. Therefore I would appreciate any assistance pointing to some good soureces on the pro-holocaust side.

thanks,
Clyde

[offline Hannover]

Clyde, welcome.

In addressing your queries have a look at:

- Rudolf / How can anybody believe the Holocaust DID happen?
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3896

There are tons of debates with Believers at this forum, here are just a few links, starting with the so called 'Holocaust History Project' representative, Andrew Mathis

- 'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis humidity/gassing canard'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2496

- 'holocaust' denial article by Andrew Mathis debunked here'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2816

- 'Prof. Mc Nally dissects HHP's Andrew Mathis' bogus article'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2841

- 'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis on Zyklon scent removal'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2499

- 'Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

- 'Believer org. spokesman, Andrew Mathis, demolished in debate'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=254

- 'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage control'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2498

- 'Email from Andrew Mathis (The Holocaust History Project)'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1526

- 'holocaust' History Project to unveil section on Treblinka'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=280

- 'Holo. Hist. Proj. rep. attempts to intimidate Bradley Smith'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3184

Another panic stricken Believer, Roberto Muehlenkamp, demolished here:

- Roberto Muehlenkamp shredded on 'gassings' & cyanide
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=224

- R.Muehlenkamp: 'gas chambers' were hosed down, so no cyanide
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3706

- Roberto Muehlenkamp: no fuel required for Auschwitz ovens
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3703

- 'Gassings & cyanide' debate from the CODOH bbs
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=81

- Marijampol, Latvia - another alleged mass grave debunked
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=608

- Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on 3.5kg of coke cremations
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=420

- Anti-denierism - Pants down, way down
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2472

Hannover

[offlinegrenadier]

Hi Clyde. My take on this is that while web forums can be
helpful the best way is still to get acquainted with the available
literature. You can download most of the best and most
up-to-date revisionist literature here: http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html
The books are available for free usually in pdf format and some
also in HTML. For starters I would recommend "Lectures on the Holocaust".
Then you can follow that up with the excellent books by
Mattogno, the Rudolf Report, etc.
As for orthodox literature it is a bit of a problem because most
of them just pretend that the revisionists don't exist and that they
don't have a case. The growth of revisionism and the
sophistication of their arguments however has changed this
somewhat. There is the tome "Denying History.." by Shermer
and Grobman and then you can see how the revisionists
countered them in "Auschwitz Lies. Legends, Lies, and Prejudices
on the Holocaust" available at the url given above.
The chapter that deals with Shermer is "Denying evidence".
You can read Pressac's attempt at refuting revisionism at the
holocaust history project website. They have made it available
in html. Then read the revisionist's criticism of Pressac's book.
Another anti-revisionist attempt was the van pelt report.
You can get it at the Internet, I think.
Yes, some haters out there may misuse revisionist arguments
for their own reasons but just because the wrong sort of person
might use an argument, that does not make the argument
itself invalid, does it?

Good luck in your quest.

[offline Hannover]

I suggest that Clyde, to satisfy any curiosity he may have, go to sites like:

www.nizkor.org
www.holocaust-history.org

look around, and then start separate threads on any issue they present that he finds interesting or the least bit convincing.

Revisionists welcome the debate, but the judeo-supremacists of the 'holocaust' Industry demand imprisonment of Revisionists because the 'holocaust' story cannot withstand scrutiny.

- Hannover

[offlineCarto's Cutlass Supreme]

Hi Clyde,

If you prefer watching videos, there is a lengthy video called "One Third of The Holocaust" at

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.info

There is also "The David Cole Video" found at codoh.org

For reading material, the leaflets at the IHR are good. You'll see the leaflets section on their main page.

http://www.ihr.org

This is going to be hard to believe, but the reason you don't see the other point of view here much, is they can't take us on. I don't expect you to believe that, but it's true. If they could take us on here, the media coverage of the Tehran Conference would have been accurate. There'd be no need to spin it with deceptions.

It's good that an ex Green Beret is interested, because it's the military that gets duped into wars with the holocaust being the underlying justification. You could almost call them "holo-wars."

Let me explain: holocaust belief equals US supporting Israel's persecution of the Palestinians. That leads to Al Quaeda striking at us which was 9-11. That leads to invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and there's you, the Green Beret, fighting a "holo-war." Due to liars from long ago.

[offlineMendoza]

Clyde -
It is critical to understand that the term "Holocaust denier" has been created by our detractors. The term itself is very confusing to those otherwise unfamiliar with revisionist theory with regard to the Holocaust.

To the uninitiated it suggests that some people claim that the Holocaust never happened at all, that no Jews were killed, that there were no Nazi Concentration Camps, and perhaps even that Jews were not persecuted by the Nazi regime. This is part of the power of this derogatory term and inaccurate term.

In their highly biased book, "Denying History," Michael Shermer and Alex Grobman support the term "deniers" claiming that it is accurate because revisionists (the preffered term) doubt the accepted definition of Holocaust which according to Shermer and Grobman means "about six million Jews were killed in an intentional and systematic fashion by the Nazis using a number of different means, including gas chambers." Revisionists, they argue, then in fact "deny" the Holocaust because they deny its three components - "the killing of six million, gas chambers, and intentionality."

I recommend that you take a look at the following CODOH articles:
The Holocaust Happened at: http://www.codoh.info/revisionist/comment/tr09happened.html
Did the Holocaust Exist? at:
http://www.codoh.info/answer/ansexist.html
and perhaps my favorite work on the site, "The Gas Chamber of Sherlock Holmes" at:
http://www.codoh.info/incon/inconshr123.html

Best of luck in your studies-
Rodrigo Mendoza