Note that the "special odor" to which Borkin refers was not merely an offensive odor, but an irritant. When used for delousing, this served two purposes. The first was to ensure that anyone accidentally exposed to the gas, even if they did not know what was happening, would leave the area immediately to relieve the symptoms of burning eyes and throat. The second purpose was to increase the respiration of insects and thus to cause them to die more quickly. This is clear upon examination of document number NI-9912, commonly known as the "Degesch manual" for the use of Zyklon. On page one, the manual states explicitly: ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (Diagriess - Dia gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers. Apart from serving its purpose as indicator, this irritant also had the advantage of stimulating the respiration of insects. Prussic acid and the irritant are generated through simple evaporation. If, as the denial set maintains, the S.S. had only wanted Zyklon B for insect control, they would most certainly not have wished to remove not only the warning device, but also the chemical that made the prussic acid more effective. That would have been not only counterproductive but also quite dangerous. It also seems clear that the only conceivable reason to remove the indicator odor would be to disguise the killing agent from the victims - hydrocyanic acid has only a weak odor described sometimes as like "bitter almonds," or, as in the Degesch manual, "peculiar, repulsively sweet." In short, it shows clear intent, thus refuting yet another denial myth - that there was no organized plan to exterminate anyone.
Work Cited Borkin, Joseph. The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben. New York: The Free Press, 1978, and London: Macmillan Publishing Company.
http://boards.historychannel.com/thread ... =700280982
Kiwichap wrote:Wahreit, I don't know where this is going but one thing is for certain, you cannot drive a train with wagons exposed to HCN anywhere.
These wagons were apparently fumigated in groups of perhaps a dozen, by the look of Bergs photos. Moving a dozen wagons in and out of a fumigation shed requires at least four people. The driver, the fireman and the shunter and the shed worker, you know, the guy who opens the doors. Shunters usually work in gangs of three or more. These wagons are put in sidings while the rest of the wagons are processed. When finished the train is assembled and on its way. Having a lot of wagons, ie, closed box car wagons, sitting around on a siding reeking of HCN is something nobody would ever want or have. On a still day its a death trap.
Cyanide is deadly, not only in a certain concentration, but also in exposure of lesser amounts over a longer time.A recent study reports an estimated LC(50) in humans of 3,404 ppm for a 1-minute exposure; other sources report that 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes, 181 ppm after 10 minutes and 135 ppm after 30 minutes
AND, if the Chloro Picrin was present, you would not be able to breath anywhere near the wagons.
Inhalation exposure to 4 ppm (26 mg/meters cubed) for a few seconds may cause some degree of incapacitation (5) and an exposure of a few seconds to 15 ppm (100 mg/meters cubed) can cause injury to the respiratory track. Exposure to concentrations above 15 ppm can result in lacrimation, vomiting, and if allowed to continue for a minute or longer, can cause pulmonary edema and possibly death.
Zyklon-B is liquid hydrocyanic acid absorbed by an earthy substance called "diatomite" and packed in strong tin containers. Cans are provided containing 15 grams, 120 grams, 480 grams, and 1,200 grams of hydrocyanic acid with 5 per cent chloropicrin as a warning gas. The cans at present are packed with a slight vacuum, which is shown by dents or sinking in of the sides of the cans.
U.S Department of Labor
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
2. Effects on Humans: Hydrogen cyanide can cause rapid death due to metabolic asphyxiation. Death can occur within seconds or minutes of the inhalation of high concentrations of hydrogen cyanide gas. A recent study reports an estimated LC(50) in humans of 3,404 ppm for a 1-minute exposure; other sources report that 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes, 181 ppm after 10 minutes and 135 ppm after 30 minutes [Hathaway et al. 1991].
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelin ... uresources
Undiluted chloropicrin is highly toxic by ingestion or direct contact with the skin or eyes. According to the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (5), airborne exposure to 0.3-0.37 ppm (2-2.5 mg/meters cubed) for 3-30 seconds results in eye irritation. This response is reported to be highly variable among individuals and tearing (lachrymation) may occur at airborne exposures of 0.15-0.3 ppm (1-2 mg/meters cubed) (5). Inhalation exposure to 4 ppm (26 mg/meters cubed) for a few seconds may cause some degree of incapacitation (5) and an exposure of a few seconds to 15 ppm (100 mg/meters cubed) can cause injury to the respiratory track. Exposure to concentrations above 15 ppm can result in lacrimation, vomiting, and if allowed to continue for a minute or longer, can cause pulmonary edema and possibly death (5)
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/ex ... n-ext.html
The picture above was taken shortly after “liberation” by the Americans and shows the purpose of real German gas chambers–to delouse clothing and nothing more sinister than that. The four Zyklon-B delousing chambers are directly behind the covered walkway behind the clothing. The USHM caption admits as much: “Two American soldiers examine disinfected prisoner uniforms in Dachau.” However the USHM goes on to insist as their caption continues that these articles of clothing were from dead prisoners and were simply being cleaned before being redistributed. Some of the clothing may indeed have been from dead prisoners but periodic delousing of clothing was the normal procedure for everyone's clothing at Dachau and every other military camp (POW or German military) in Germany as well. Shame on the USHM.
The argument of Fritz Berg has no value at all. I have told him that to
his face. But maybe you are familiar with this unfortunate man's temper
The existence of these hangars for the disinfection of trains was known
for a long time, and I recall having talked about this during my first
visit to the United States in 1979. Among my photo slides, in
particular, I had some about a shed for the disinfection of trains (in
Budapest?). I have repeated a hundred times, that gassing of inanimate
objects, such as clothing, boats, trains, or facilities as sheds,
churches, silos, libraries, rooms, etc. would truly be a delicate and
dangerous, but not an impossible, operation. It would suffice to take a
certain number of precautions, (for example, in order to avoid the
spreading of the gas to the outside, explosions, etc.) and to proceed
with the aeration, the ventilation of the inanimate objects at the
gassing site wherein the gas could still remain. I have written of these
On the other hand, when the subject is alive, the problem becomes
formidable, because the body is entirely impregnated and permeated with a virulent poison. It is for this reason that an execution gas chamber is so complicated, and that is why the doctor and his two assistants have to
multiply the precautions. I will not reiterate about all they have to do
and which does not guarantee much, because even after all that, the
corpse to be removed from the chamber, can still be hazardous. One can
well imagine the formidable dangers which the piles of corpses would
constitute, be they inside a shed, a house, or a so-called Nazi "gas
chamber". There is the rub. Here lies the danger and nowhere else. One
ends up with a practical, total impossibility. As to my question of
1978: For me, the mass gassings are technically impossible, yet you, if
you think, that this is technically possible, show it to me. You know
the answer which you gave me on February 21, 1979: A jest and an
admission of incapacity? And since that date I am still waiting for an
answer, be it from any practical jokers, or be it from Mr. Berg.
That which the latter could never stand, that a Frenchman, imbued in the
culture of classical literature, had made a kind of scientific discovery,
which a German or, better yet, especially, an American chemist or
engineer should have attained, because, in the United States, gas chamber facilities were present right there within their penitentiaries.
As to that, I remember that in 1917 American humanitarians had the idea
that it would be easier and more humane to execute the condemned persons with gas, than with the electric chair, or hanging, or by firing squad. That's when in the course of the construction of a gas chamber the
technical difficulties were discovered. After seven years worth of
effort, the first execution took place in Carson City, Nevada, which
turned out to be all but a complete catastrophe.
What would Mr. F. Berg have done, had it been demanded of him to enter
his shed, immediately, or some hours later after an execution in order to
remove thousands of corpses, highly impermeated with cyanide, and
therefore untouchable? I had put this question to him in public, and he
remained silent. I have told him, "study a subject that you have never
studied: About the execution gas chambers in your own country." I
remember that an American, who had followed our conversation had then
made the remark, "Well, there, at least this is clear!"
Are you sure Germans transported stock in box cars?
Kiwichap wrote:Thats an interesting picture you have of a box car with the door at one end of the wagon. You won't see that on the Auschwitz Album wagons. In fact, I have never ever seen one. Common sense dictates the doors are ALWAYS in the centre of the wagon to facilitate loading and unloading. Perhaps it was custom built for a special job.
Thats an interesting picture you have of a box car with the door at one end of the wagon. You won't see that on the Auschwitz Album wagons. In fact, I have never ever seen one. Common sense dictates the doors are ALWAYS in the centre of the wagon to facilitate loading and unloading. Perhaps it was custom built for a special job.
Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:Is this too hard for anyone to understand? Am I losing anyone? No doubt, Faurisson will not get it and never will. I explained this all to him many years ago in person and in 1994 with my answer to his foolish nine-word challenge "Show me or draw me a Nazi gas chamber"---but he has forgotten everything and learned nothing.
So you are saying, in a nutshell, that the Germans had, of course, the small delousing chambers for clothing at the camps and also big hangars to delouse trains.
Kiwichap wrote:It would be even worse in a box car with only a few boards removed. Hundreds of clothed corpses, fallen all over one another. There is no possibility of ventilating that. Its ridiculous to even think you could ventilate it. This is not a barrack or a dining room. This is a pile of cyanide soaked clothing & corpses. Cyanide, boiling point, 26 °C (78.8 °F). In winter and on cold days, underneath the corpses the cyanide would be liquid again. Soaked, even if damply into clothing.
Cyanide Absorption through the Skin
Faurisson's claims that for mass murder oceans of hydrocyanic acid" would have been required and that the corpses as well as the chambers would have been saturated" with HCN are pure fantasy! He is apparently unaware of the meaning of the word saturate" and of the fact that the amount of HCN needed to kill someone is less than one gram whereas the amount needed to saturate" a corpse is at least a thousand times greater. Practically all of the lethal dosage of HCN would enter through the lungs and not the skin.
Faurisson has repeatedly overstated the danger of HCN absorption through the skin. Although skin certainly does absorb HCN, it does so rather slowly. According to a source which Faurisson has himself used, 10 minutes are required to overcome a man with a gas mask whose skin is exposed to a concentration of 2% HCN in air.
“(2) It should also be remembered that a man may be overcome by the absorption of hydrocyanic acid gas through the skin; a concentration of 2 percent hydrocyanic acid being sufficient to thus overcome a man in about 10 minutes. Therefore, even if one wears a gas mask, exposure to concentrations of hydrocyanic acid gas of 1 percent by volume or greater should be made only in case of necessity and then for a period not longer than 1 minute at a time. In general, places containing this gas should be well ventilated with fresh air before the wearer of the mask enters, thus reducing the concentration of hydrocyanic acid gas to low fractional percentages.” (See: The Gas Mask, Technical Manual No. 3-205, War Department, Washington, October 9, 1941, p. 144, NA RG 407, Records of the Adjutant General's Office, 1917 TM 3-205.)
The typical lethal concentration for an execution chamber and for delousing is only 0.1% HCN in air, in other words, the lethal gas need only be one-twentieth as strong as the gas discussed in Faurisson's reference. If one applies a rule of thumb or reciprocity known sometimes as Henderson's Rule, one would need twenty times as long to cause the same toxic effect. In other words, approximately 200 minutes or three hours of exposure to 0.1% HCN would be needed to overcome a worker wearing a gas mask but whose skin is exposed. It is almost inconceivable, however, that workers removing corpses would be exposed to anything near these concentrations after the doors were opened. Depending upon the duration of the forced-venting of the chamber, the cyanide levels confronting workers would be far, far less than 0.1%; that was why, after all, the chambers would have been force-vented in the first place before the doors were opened. The principal danger to workers removing corpses is from cyanide vapors gradually leaving corpses and walls and then mixing with air surrounding the workers. However, with the circulation blowers continuing to bring fresh air into the chambers, the cyanide levels in air would be maintained easily enough at extremely low levels, safe enough for workers wearing rubber gloves to remove corpses without also wearing gas masks. In other words, the danger of HCN absorption through parts of the skin not covered with rubber gloves is negligible in a DEGESCH delousing chamber or tunnel if it is operated correctly.