Mass Graves claimed to be found at Treblinka

[Zulu]

Interesting Stormfront discussion.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t860337/

The researcher expresses more prudence than the medias about her findings.

“These initial findings indicate that we still have a great deal to learn about the history of Treblinka. Traces of the camp clearly do survive below the ground and the use of archaeological methods has revealed structures, pits and other subtle traces of the camp’s existence and layout. Most importantly, these findings can contribute to our knowledge about the nature of Nazi persecution and the treatment of the victims sent there.”
.../
Caroline’s research will be explored further in a forthcoming BBC Radio 4 documentary, The Hidden Graves of the Holocaust on Monday 23 January at 8pm.

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/research/ou ... caust.aspx
On last August I tried to know more about that work. It seems that we will have to wait some time more to read the final Caroline's scientific publication. However, it is strange to me that an archeological work of such historical importance could be completed and of valuable relevance without any excavation.

Mail for inquiry

Answer

[ClaudiaRothenbach]

There is no burial site at Treblinka!
The official story is that the graves already were dug up and the dead bodies burned.
So there is no reason not to take a shovel ...
Typical Jewish lie.

Some years ago, Richard Krege proved with ground penetrating radar that there is only undisturbed soil on the site.
Who disturbed the soil since then?

[SKcz]

There is no burial site at Treblinka!
The official story is that the graves already were dug up and the dead bodies burned.
So there is no reason not to take a shovel ...
Typical Jewish lie.

Some years ago, Richard Krege proved with ground penetrating radar that there is only undisturbed soil on the site.
Who disturbed the soil since then?

No, the remains, bones, teeths all ashes were buried into previously excavated mass graves.

"The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves."

Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87
TREBLINKA: EXTERMINATION CAMP OR TRANSIT CAMP? Mattogno/Graf, 2004, 2005, 2011, p.15.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/1.html#ftnref19

The millions of teeths, thousands tons of ashes and bones are still there, allegedly, but no mass grave was ever found.

Krege is irrelevant, I didn´t see any report from him, nothing, I don´t like double standards so his claims aren´t much valuable.

[Hannover]

SKcz has merely pointed out the fact that the storyline is contradictory in endless ways.
said:

The millions of teeths, thousands tons of ashes and bones are still there, allegedly, but no mass grave was ever found.

No they are not.
On the one hand the liars say that the Germans went back and cleaned up all traces of the previous masss graves, yet on the other hand shyster & racist Israel Gutman says:

The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves."

So, what would have been the point of allegedly exhuming the remains in the first place? The 'holocau$t' liars are their own worst enemy. Hoisted by their own petard again.

Another devastating work about the Treblinka lies:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/12/2 ... 3-158.html

- Hannover

[Hannover]

Here is another site of an alleged 'mass grave' at Treblinka .... completely covered to prevent anyone from further finding that there is nothing there which comports with the 'holocaust' storyline. The Jewish supremacists are certainly are hiding something. But no, wait, they call it a 'memorial'. What a sick fraud the so called 'holocaust' is.



- Hannover

[Hannover]

SKcz said:

Krege is irrelevant, I didn't see any report from him, nothing, I don´t like double standards so his claims aren´t much valuable.

Oh is he? And of course the man who was working on the Krege report, Germar Rudolf, was thrown in jail for writing his now famous Rudolf Report*, thereby making the report a bit difficult to write. And since his release from jail, I doubt if he can, as is said, 'go there'.
And let's face it, it was Krege who necessitated the creation of the bogus news story shown in the first post to begin with.

Below is not a 'report', but it certainly backs up it's claim, as opposed to the complete zero in that bogus news story shown in the first post.

*The Rudolf Report: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/

See below.

- Hannover

The issue that some want to ignore is the $100,000 REWARD.

Krege showed there was no mass grave/s when he did his work, the True Believers cannot show us any such mass grave/s for the absurdly claimed 870,000 Jews, why not? The onus is upon the accusers of the crime, that's standard jurisprudence. The fallback to an additional report is a strawman and a distraction from the fact there is no claimed mass grave/s for 870,000 Jews, simple. The $100,000 REWARD stands, where are the takers? Where are the claimed enormous graves?

No mass graves, no 'holocau$t'

"The Examiner":

Monday January 24, 2000, page 17:
Poland’s Jews ‘not buried at Treblinka’

ADELAIDE - An Australian Holocaust revisionist claims he has proof a mass grave never existed a Treblinka in Poland. Richard Krege, 30, of Canberra said that data collected during a week at Treblinka, using ground penetrating radar, found no soil disturbance consistent with 870,000 Jews having been buried there.

"Historians say that the bodies were exhumed and cremated towards the end of the Treblinka camp’s use in 1943, but we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed," Mr Krege said "Personally, I don’t think there was a [death]-camp there at all." Mr Krege who will address a public meeting in Adelaide tomorrow night as the start of an eight-day national tour, said he had gone to Poland in October last year to find the truth".

A qualified electronics engineer, he is an associate of the Adelaide Institute run by German-born revisionist Dr Fredrick Toben whom he is accompanying on the tour.

"The Canberra Times"

Science, harmful to Holocaust-Industry
Monday January 24, 2000, page 6:

‘No Jewish mass grave’ in Poland ADELAIDE: An Australian Holocaust revisionist claims he has proof a mass grave never existed at Treblinka in Poland.

Data collected during a week at Treblinka. using ground penetrating radar, found no soil disturbance consistent with 870,000 Jews having been buried there.

Richard Krege, 30, of Canberra, said data collected during a week at Treblinka. using ground penetrating radar, found no soil disturbance consistent with 870,000 Jews having been buried there. ‘Historians say that the bodies were exhumed and cremated towards the end of the Treblinka camp’s use in 1943. but we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed," he said. ‘Personally, I don’t think there was a [death]-camp there at all.’ Mr Krege, who will address a public meeting in Adelaide tonight at the start of an eight-day tour, said he had gone to Poland in October last year to "find the truth".

A qualified electronics engineer, he is an associate of the Adelaide Institute run by German-born revisionist Dr Fredrick Toben, whom he is accompanying on the tour. Mr Krege said he would like to see an international group formed, possibly under the auspices of the United Nations, to use ground penetrating radar at all concentration camps in Europe. He said he was in the process of having other experts review the data he collected, but was confident that they would also conclude the mass burial did not happen.

The young Australian-born man admitted that he expected to be labelled a racist and anti-Semitic.

and see descriptive German report text and citations here:

http://vho.org/VffG/2000/1/Krege62-64.html

Vierteljahreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung
»Vernichtungslager« Treblinka - archäologisch betrachtet
Von Ing. Richard Krege

- Hannover

[Kingfisher]

Hannover

There's no need to be so confrontational and your heated comments referring to "liars", "shysters" etc do not aid discussion.

SKcz simply commented that the value of Krege's efforts is limited, given that a full report was not produced; Rudolf's imprisonment is a reasonable explanation as to why, but we still don't have a report. SKcz is quite right to say we must apply the same standards to Revisionists as we apply to the mainstream, even if the latter don't apply similar standards to themselves.

It is a cause for regret that we don't have a better record and report on Krege's researches. They certainly suggest that "Caroline" may not find much to back up her preconceptions. It will be interesting to see what she comes up with and how she explains it.

[SKcz]

SKcz has merely pointed out the fact that the storyline is contradictory in endless ways.
said:

The millions of teeths, thousands tons of ashes and bones are still there, allegedly, but no mass grave was ever found.

No they are not.
On the one hand the liars say that the Germans went back and cleaned up all traces of the previous masss graves, yet on the other hand shyster & racist Israel Gutman says:

The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves."

So, what would have been the point of allegedly exhuming the remains in the first place? The 'holocau$t' liars are their own worst enemy. Hoisted by their own petard again.

Another devastating work about the Treblinka lies:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/12/2 ... 3-158.html

- Hannover

Maybe I wasn´t clear, I only quoted exterminationist source to prove that argument "remains are not there because they were cremated" is irrelevant and false, I didn´t say that mass graves are really there. Peoples often use this false argument to prove that there could not be human remains since they were cremated, but official sources claims that the remains are there and is worth to note that human cannot magically vanish during cremation. Nobody ever found them, this means that no gassings took place. If the remains are allegedly still there, is not possible to not find them, we speaks about thousands of tons of wood and human ash, bones, teeths in area of 1,4 hectares, which is area of alleged "Camp 2" - extermination area. If we subtract area of buildings - chambers, barracks for sonderkommando, or area with trees, the place for graves would be smaller, I guess 1,3ha.

Again, here is another confirmation from Yitzhak Arad

"Ultimately it was decided to dump the ash and bits of bone into the ditches that had previously held the bodies and to cover them with a thick layer of sand and dirt. The ash was scattered in the pits in several layers, interspersed with layers of sand. The top 2 meters of the pit were filled with earth."

Yitzhak Arad, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. The Operation Reinhard Death Camps, Indiana University Press, Bloomington and Indianapolis 1987, p. 176.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/5.html#ftnref442

Or from Yankiel Wiernik

"It was our job to fill in the empty ditches with the ashes of the cremated victims, mixed with soil, in order to obliterate all traces of the mass graves."

Alexander Donat (ed.), The Death Camp Treblinka, Holocaust Library, New York 1979, p. 97.
TREBLINKA: EXTERMINATION CAMP OR TRANSIT CAMP? Mattogno/Graf, 2004, 2005, 2011, p.151.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/5.html#ftnref444

You can notice that according to this technique, the area would need to be even more huge to bury mixture of soil and ashes and not only ashes alone. Also notice nonsense from Wiernik who speaks about "obliterating", but mass grave cannot be obliterate without leaving a trace, no matter if there are bones, ashes or only soil, once digged grave is still there.

Thanks Kingfisher for answering instead of me, I agree with him about Krege, I did not see any report, only video and one picture, that´s all, I even don´t know which location is shown on that GPR image so I can´t accept his highly limited "report". I only wonder why he didn´t publish his results, was he frightend off by holocaust lobby? Sound plausible to me.

SKcz

[Hannover]

Kingfisher:

There's no need to be so confrontational and your heated comments referring to "liars", "shysters" etc do not aid discussion.

I call them what they are, so should everyone. People need to get over their fear of Jewish supremacists and their lies. And the lies and names they use against Revisionists certainly do nothing to "aid discussion". That part got left out.

Rudolf was going to write the Krege report. Gents, read my post.
And as I stated, this was not really a 'report', but certainly more than the bogus article presented in post no. one.

- Hannover

[SKcz]

Kingfisher:

There's no need to be so confrontational and your heated comments referring to "liars", "shysters" etc do not aid discussion.

I call them what they are, so should everyone. People need to get over their fear of Jewish supremacists and their lies. And the lies and names they use against Revisionists certainly do nothing to "aid discussion". That part got left out.

Rudolf was going to write the Krege report. Gents, read my post.
And as I stated, this was not really a 'report', but certainly more than the bogus article presented in post no. one.

- Hannover

Honestly Hannover, you would accept this report in the case that Krege would be exterminationist who claims that he found mass graves? Would you be content with this short report which lacks important information and data?

Me not.

[astro3]

Puzzle of the 'Krege Report'
Claudia Rothenbach: “Richard Krege proved with ground penetrating radar that there is only undisturbed soil on the site”
SKCZ:” “Krege is irrelevant, I didn´t see any report from him, nothing,”
Hannover explained, concerning the non-appearance of the Krege Report: “the man who was working on the Krege report, Germar Rudolf, was thrown in jail.” But, hang on - Rudolf is a chemist. He does not have expertise on ground-penetrating radar.

Newspaper report “The Examiner" (Adelaide, Monday January 24, 2000, page 17): 'Poland’s Jews ‘not buried at Treblinka.’ Mr Krege was giving a series of talks, and explained: "we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed," Mr Krege said "Personally, I don’t think there was a [death]-camp there at all." Mr Krege who will address a public meeting in Adelaide tomorrow night as the start of an eight-day national tour, said he had gone to Poland in October last year to find the truth, adding: ‘He said he was in the process of having other experts review the data he collected.’ Did we ever hear from them?

Hmm, maybe we should all start by viewing the short video here http://www.whale.to/b/treb1.html (scroll down to bottom). In October 1999 a 'small team of Australian researchers' spent three weeks doing a very detailed ground-survey, they took earth-core samples down to six feet as well as their ground-penetrating radar. Their detailed scans were saved on laptops and then copied onto CD-roms and sent to various experts world-wide for evaluation. They found no ashes, no bones, and concluded with 100% certainty that Treblinka had never been used as a 'death-camp'. That video seems to be, alas, all that remains of the Report.

Mr SKCZ, would you modify your opinion after viewing this?

But it strains our credulity that in the year 1999 an Australian team got ‘ground-penetrating radar’ equipment over to Treblinka, spent weeks checking the ground, finding it had not been disturbed – and then reported this to his local newspaper. Well, if that report were published it would be the most amazing revisionist science-achievment since Fred Leuchter measured the cyanide in Auschwitz walls.

Does not this seem odd? Would Krege not write up his astonishing find into a report, and post it off somewhere, before giving the story to a newspaper? I heard a rumour that a ‘Holocaust Handbook’ series in 2004 was going to publish it, but then Rudolf’s imprisonment undermined this. In that case I’m puzzled by Hannover saying ‘Rudolf was going to write the Krege report.’ – We need Mr Krege to write it in Adelaide, with comments from ‘other experts’ and technical details of what exactly GPR can see and to what depth, etc. Is he somehow illiterate, that Mr Rudolf needs to write it for him?

Can we please know who is the ‘we’ alluded to? Fred Toben was in Mannheim jail at the time.

Caroline Colls’ work at the University of Birminham sounds very thorough – using the same technology GPR as Mr Krege but reaching an opposite conclusion:

the use of archaeological methods has revealed structures, pits and other subtle traces of the camp’s existence and layout... Multiple geophysical and topographic survey methods were utilised at the site, allowing various aspects of the landscape to be mapped. When this information was compared with archival material, such as aerial photographs and witness maps, the boundaries of the camp were identified and below-ground features were characterised.”

[Cloud]

There is a leprechaun inside of this box, but I won't allow anyone to open it (why?) and verify for themselves (which would be the most reasonable thing to do). So how can you tell whether or not if there really is a leprechaun inside of this box?

[SKcz]

Hmm, maybe we should all start by viewing the short video here http://www.whale.to/b/treb1.html (scroll down to bottom). In October 1999 a 'small team of Australian researchers' spent three weeks doing a very detailed ground-survey, they took earth-core samples down to six feet as well as their ground-penetrating radar. Their detailed scans were saved on laptops and then copied onto CD-roms and sent to various experts world-wide for evaluation. They found no ashes, no bones, and concluded with 100% certainty that Treblinka had never been used as a 'death-camp'. That video seems to be, alas, all that remains of the Report.

Mr SKCZ, would you modify your opinion after viewing this?

I already saw this video before, but I can´t change my attitude. I have no reason why not to believe him since I know that there couldn´t happen what the exterminationists say, but I cannot accept Krege video or this vague report only because we share the same opinion, this method is applied by exterminationists and I don´t agree with it. This isn´t correct approach, would you accept this video or that vague report in the case that Krege would be exterminationist who claim that he found everything? Me not since I miss important information and data. I think that he was frightened by holocaust lobby and that is reason why he did not publish all needed information, this would be no surprise, because this report would be the most important document since Leuchter or Rudolf reports and I guess much more damning.

[Hannover]

Skcz:

Honestly Hannover, you would accept this report in the case that Krege would be exterminationist who claims that he found mass graves? Would you be content with this short report which lacks important information and data?Honestly

Fair questions. No I would not, but would be willing to accept that scans were actually done. Remember, the 'holocaust' Industry has every resource imaginable at their disposal and they cannot produce anything other than the bogus article, or ones like it, to supposedly rebut Revisionsts. Krege certainly had a very limited budget to work with, and remember, the onus is on the Jewsish supremacists to produce proof for their claims. If those among the 'holocaust' religion didn't take Krege seriously they wouldn't have even bothered to fabricate their lies about their GPR scans revealing mass graves ... for which they have shown no scans, no remains, no proof that what they supposedly found was even a mass grave. Disturbance of the soil layers, former pits/holes in the ground which is what GPR can detect, can be caused by many things. Krege had a simpler task, showing that there were no disturbances in the soil layers in the areas specifically claimed to be mass graves. Ca. 900,000 Jews supposedly buried into what would necessarily be an enormous hole/s in the ground and what can they show us? Absolutely nothing.

On the Krege 'report', and granted this is anecdotal, it's my understanding from reliable sources that Rudolf had all of Krege's notes from Krege's no-mass-graves-at-Treblinka research, etc. Remember, Rudolf already went to jail for Thought Crimes, is out of jail and perhaps a bit sheepish about working through and publishing more Revisionist material. After all, Rudolf has family members in Germany and the US. If he returned to either of them after putting his name on a study of Krege's work he would certainly be extradited to Germany from the US (aka: kidnapping, a la what happened to him previously and what happened to Ernst Zundel ....the US 'government' as columnist Pat Buchanan says is really nothing more than Israeli occupied territory) and back in the slammer he would go, and obviously a return to Germany on his own to see his loved ones would result in a meeting and arrest at a German airport.
I also have information that Krege was/is undergoing some legal actions by the Australian government against him. Australia does imprison people who scrutinize the 'holocaust' storyline. That would certainly put the clamps of Krege from publishing anything 'holocaust' related. IMO, there are solid, realistic reasons why there is no formal Krege report.
But in reality, who cares? It doesn't matter in the big picture. The simple fact is that the accusers have produced nothing to prove their claims about Treblinka, or any other alleged mass grave site that they claim. It's more than obvious why.

Astro3 quotes:

the use of archaeological methods has revealed structures, pits and other subtle traces of the camp’s existence and layout... Multiple geophysical and topographic survey methods were utilised at the site, allowing various aspects of the landscape to be mapped. When this information was compared with archival material, such as aerial photographs and witness maps, the boundaries of the camp were identified and below-ground features were characterised.”

And so what?
All that and no human remains shown? All Colls has done then is state that Treblinka existed, which no one doubts. Take notice of the description of "subtle". An alleged mass grave of the proportions that would be necessary to hold 900,000 Jews would leave a soil disturbance / marker that could hardly be labeled "subtle".

I assume astro3 is being sarcastic when he states:

Caroline Colls’ work at the University of Birminham sounds very thorough – using the same technology GPR as Mr Krege but reaching an opposite conclusion

And given the obstacles placed atop at least one supposed 'mass grave'* which was done after Krege's work ... hmm, how was she able to scan all the 'mass graves' sites. She apparently found evidence that there was a Treblinka. Not "very thoriugh" to me.

*

astro3 again:

But it strains our credulity that in the year 1999 an Australian team got ‘ground-penetrating radar’ equipment over to Treblinka, spent weeks checking the ground, finding it had not been disturbed – and then reported this to his local newspaper.

I see no strain whatsoever. Leuchter & Rudolf did their work in a much more populated and guarded site, Auschwitz, so Treblinka obviously wasn't a very secure site in 1999. After all, one can see in the video that they were indeed at Treblinka with the GPR scanner.

- Hannover

[Hannover]

I guess this could called 'piling on', but regardless, here is more from this forum which demolishes the tall tales about Treblinka.

'Lubomyr Prytulak's letter to Arad i.e. - Treblinka'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3166&p=21706
Treblinka 'expert' Arad is taken to task, really embarrassing for the Industry.


Treblinka dissected at the Demjanjuk trial
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151&p=881
A lengthy court document with some revealing information. Worth the time to read.

This is spot on:

... we conclude that the identifying eyewitnesses were suffering from "Holocaust Survivor's Syndrome" (described in over 1,600 medical articles).

Ouch!

more excerpts:

http://vho.org/GB/c/AmicusCuriaeDemjanjuk.html
No. 85-3435 IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SIXTH CIRCUIT COURT JOHN DEMJANJUK, Petitioner-Appellant v. JOSEPH PETROVSKY, ET AL., Respondents-Appellees ON APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO

TABLE OF CONTENTS
I. Introduction:
- On the basis of eyewitness testimony and survivors identification, OSI wrongfully prosecuted F. Walus and Dr. K. Hanff, now exonerated, members of the Polish-American community
- About 40 various plans of the Treblinka-II camp drawn for or by survivors present graphic and astonishing proof of unreliability of their memory
- Soviet-provided Demjanjuk's ID card was supposedly issued in mid-1942 by SS-Commissioner, O. Globocnik, who had been dismissed by H. Himmler from his post in March 1942, while J. Demjanjuk was still in the Red Army, p. 1
II. Background:
- Permissive use of judicial notice and eyewitness testimony in lieu of physical and/or documentary evidence were hallmarks of injustice of the past political and/or show trials
- Soviet-provided, extorted eyewitness testimonies for the 1945 Leningrad war crimes trial resulted in wrongful, public hanging of seven German officers for "murdering 10,000 Polish officers in the Katyn Forest."
- German ex-prisoner of Majdanek, P. Hoffmann, was misidentified as the chief of crematoria by Jewish co-prisoners, survivors of that camp, and was publicly hanged in 1945, in the aftermath of the first war crimes trial in Poland; two years later, the real perpetrator was found and hanged, p. 8
III. Captain Sauer, "Ivan", Jan Rogoza, "Ivan Brosh" and lately "Ivan the Terrible" were contemporaneously and thus inconsistently remembered by Jewish survivors as the chief perpetrator at the Treblinka-II camp, p. 12
IV. Did the alleged mass exterminations take place at Treblinka-II or at Treblinka-III, forty kilometers away ?, p. 17
V. What did survivors remember as the method of mass extermination at Treblinka-II: steam in gas chambers, Diesel exhaust in gas chambers, Zyklon-B in gas chambers, shooting with a rifle, shooting with a machine gun, electrocution or suffocation in a vacuum ?, p. 19
VI. Was the only mass grave found at the Treblinka-II camp large enough for burial of 900,000 victims who were allegedly killed at that camp ?, p. 24
VII. Can a Diesel engine be the murder weapon used in the alleged war crimes ?, p. 34
VIII. Is the ID card submitted by the KGB to identify John Demjanjuk genuine ?, p. 37
IX. Conclusion, p. 40

IX. CONCLUSION
Given the extraordinary amount of inconsistencies in both eyewitness and documentary evidence, we conclude that the identifying eyewitnesses were suffering from "Holocaust Survivor's Syndrome" (described in over 1,600 medical articles).
Soviet-provided ID cards are blatant forgeries ("signed" by SS officers using outdated ranks and seals which had been officially destroyed).
The survivors-eyewitnesses who claim diesel exhaust was used to kill masses of people cannot possibly be correct, since the 1962 Surgeon General Report to the U.S. Congress and the 1980 data of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency determined that diesel engine exhaust is non-lethal, while the 1989 report from the New Jersey Institute of Technology confirmed that technically it would not be feasible for diesel engines to be used in such a manner.

Hey, Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd and impossible tales of the 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

- Hannover