Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
'More Catholics than Jews died at Auschwitz'
'The shrinking Majdanek death toll'
To echo HorHug, ' the 30% mortality quote can only relate to men at Auschwitz in August 42' We divide the male death total of 6829 (given in the decrypt for September* http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/decr ... .9.42.html ) by the total population given of 22,965 to get 30%. So we confirm from the numbers given, a dreadful peak in mortality for that month.
As Mattogno explains (In 'Special Treatment at Auschwitz') , the camp was being put into a quarantine from July because of the outbreak, far worse than at any other camp.
One year later, that % monthly mortality had been reduced tenfold, down to 3%. That was a result of the 'special treatment' protocols being applied, and improved hygiene.
http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/pf ... _setting=C
Nothing could show more clearly, how effective the cyanide 'Zyklon' was, in reducing mortality.
* The published 'Death Books of Ausch'. give 8507 deaths in that month ( http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/decr ... hwitz.html ) and we infer that the excess here is a total of female deaths at the camp.
After March 1943, the number of death-certificates issued for ‘Jews’ was merely 4 % of what it was before March 1943, on average. You can see that drop on the above graph. Would anyone have any comment upon that?
It seems to me to be the one bit of this whole story that is compatible with an exterminationist view. Was a decision made to cease reporting Jewish deaths – or not?
Here is a comment made in the Death Books on this matter (Volume 1, p.225):
The lower percentage of Jees among the registered victims after March 1943 is misleading, because the registry office stopped certifying the deaths of registered Jews deported in the RSHA transports and sent to the camp after selection. They continued to certify only the deaths of Jews who had been sent to the camp by the Gestapo, Kripo or another police department. These were Jews married to persons of Aryan descent who had to be informed of the death of their husband or wife.
(If you want to check the Death-Book data on which this is based, go to whatreallyhappened.info, select ‘Bletchley Park Decrypts’ then select ‘Death Books Auschwitz 1941-43.’ Or select ‘Death Books Auschwitz Excel Data’ to see monthly totals, percentages etc on an Excel spreadsheet. Or, select ‘Death Certs IMH Auschwitz Charts’ to see the five exciting graphs we have made out of them)
The lower percentage of Jews among the registered victims after March 1943 is misleading, because the registry office stopped certifying the deaths of registered Jews deported in the RSHA transports and sent to the camp after selection. They continued to certify only the deaths of Jews who had been sent to the camp by the Gestapo, Kripo or another police department. These were Jews married to persons of Aryan descent who had to be informed of the death of their husband or wife.
A number of reasonable answers:
- What is the proof for this claim? The discredited Danuta Czech and her meanderings?
- Why would they report any Jew deaths if the claim is that Jew deaths were being hidden?
- We know that Jews were moved out of Auschwitz / Birkenau, so it's logical that perhaps there were less Jews as a percentage of the labor camp population, hence a smaller percentage of Jew typhus / disease deaths.
- If the lower percentage is true (a big IF), then perhaps Jews were not as exposed to typhus bearing lice as much as others in the labor camp.
- And of course, knowing that the alleged gas chambers and the typhus abatement crematory facilities could not have functioned as alleged, plus the fact that there are no human remains to support the storyline, we have nothing.
The Successful endeavour to Reduce Auschwitz mortality http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/numbers.html
Day by Day in Auschwitz in 1942 http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/daily.html
Deaths at Auschwitz in 1942 http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/decr ... 942_v3.pdf
Plus a couple of others:
Why six million? http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/six_million.html
and Pink Not blue http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/pinknotblue.html
Horhug is busy now with work (in case you're wondering why nothing has happened on this post for months) , but I'm hoping later this year we may checkout some more of the Public Record Office data.
If perchance you feel the above articles are true and sound, it will be because of dialogues with Horhug, plus all the 'raw' data' he has made available on the site.
Also discerning readers will be aware that all the Arolsen Archive data is now on some CDs and has been sent out to various different national centres and is supposed to be becoming publicly available. I'll refrain from further comment for an obvious reason:
http://en.auschwitz.org/h/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=13
http://en.auschwitz.org/m/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=85
- although I could perhaps add, that Horhug did write to the Arolsen Archive (ITS) in Germany asking some key questions, and received a reply that they would not give information to 'deniers.'
Moral: try to find a non-'denier' hat to put on, if you want to get some info from them.
The first is if the information they have confirms or at leastdoesn't contradict the Authorised Version they should d be happy to supply it.
The second is how do they know he's a "denier"? Are you automatically a denier if you ask the wrong questions?
I bought the 1949 edition (later editions were edited to remove the embarrassing passages) and scanned and uploaded it for CODOH here: http://codoh.com/sites/default/files/downloads/widerstand_in_auschwitz.pdf
One of the biggest flaws - if not the biggest flaw - of standard holocaust historiography is to blindly accept the claims of Communists against their mortal enemy. There is absolutely ZERO verification process before using a source for a historical work. Consequently, mainstream works are a goldmine of hacks and frauds of whom only Revisionists have bothered to verify and thus expose.
Thank you for the PDF link. One does not need to go too far into the document to realize that the man is spewing propaganda of the worst kind. In talking about Joseph Cyrankiewicz he says:
"Er wurde in das KZ Auschwitz eingelieferl und von dort aus in das Vernichtungslager Mauthausen lager überführt".
(He (J.C.) was transported to the concentration camp Auschwitz and from there was transferred to the Mauthausen extermination camp.)
Please note the man refers to Auschwitz as a concentration camp and to Mauthausen as an extermination camp. This one sentence clearly indicates that Auschwitz was used as a transfer centre rather than an extermination camp. We know that Mauthausen was definitely not an extermination camp.
Those remarks were made at page eight into the book. Need we say more?
Anyone can get a card to go in there, its a pleasant place to be.
It would be so good if we could get some comparable data on Dachau / Majdanek eg, or try to sort out the numbers in Birkenau. This is vitally relevant for reaching a conclusion re the 'Hotle telegram.'
I would like to get an estimate of the total proportion of jews in the camps over the period 1941-2, I reckon its around 40%.
On a related topic, the Arolsen Archive data has now been sent out to various different locations in digital form - Supposed to have 30 million documents (Wiki) - copies sent to
United States - United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
Israel - Yad Vashem
Poland - Institute of National Remembrance
Luxembourg - Centre de Documentation et de Recherche sur la Resistance
Belgium - National Archives of Belgium
France - French National Archives (Archives Nationales)
United Kingdom - The Wiener Library for the Study of the Holocaust & Genocide
Specialized other archives
BUT - as you might surmise - I gained permission to check out their data at the Weiner Library London, and there is no way one can access any total numbers - numbers who lived, or who died, at any camp, by month or by year, nope. Its all about individual cases.
Has anyone else tried to do this?
The first column shows total number of camp inmates for January 1943, as given by the British Intel decrypts for six camps. I've taken a mean from daily values given, in thousands (Nat. archives file HW 16/10).
The second shows that same figure, half a year later, August 1943,as given by German NS statistician Pohl.
The third shows total camp mortality as given by the Arolsen Archive (in 1991, see Rudolf http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html , last table)
...............................Jan '43..........Aug '43...............Total deaths
Pohl sometimes breaks down his totals into male and female, here for Auschwitz and Lublin. So there is a big increase in numbers in all the camps for the first half of 1943.
I don't know what happened at Mauthausen, but that looks here like it was THE death-camp.
So for Auschwitz the total reported camp mortality over the years was 70% of the inmate population in mid-1943.
For the other camps it averages 240% a far higher mortality.
From this one could conclude, that Auschwitz was not a death-camp.
Couple of other columns would here be of interst, if anyone wanted to analyse the British Intel decrypt data properly:
The percentage of Jews in camps, eg Dachau had none, or just two in January '43. Mauthausen had 0-50 i.e. hardly any. In contrast Lublin was nearly all Jews, 1144 out of 1155, why should that be? The data-columns are not labelled one has to try and infer them from the text.
Then it would be of interest to have total arrivals over the whole year per camp. We can just do Auschwitz,thanks to Horhug's analysis, as 73,000 for the year, Its of interest that the yearly arrivals are more than the camp population - the basis of the exterminist clam of course, in their illusory viewpoint.
For Pohl data http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/ select Evidence code No., PS 1469, select Doc. 4067
Dachau was a camp for German political prisoners. Were politicals who happened to be Jews classed as politicals and not as Jews? Lublin was a labour camp near Warsaw and Poland had roughly 3 million Jews, so a natural destination for Polish Jews.astro3 wrote:camp mortalityThe percentage of Jews in camps, eg Dachau had none, or just two in January '43. Mauthausen had 0-50 i.e. hardly any. In contrast Lublin was nearly all Jews, 1144 out of 1155, why should that be?
Well-sourced and documented. Puts an immense dent in the holocaust hoax.
I was asked recently why I questioned and doubted the orthodox "holocaust story", when the pictures, newsreels and narration clearly showed us that it did. After all, it's deeply woven into our history books, right?
Several main reasons that some people do not believe the holocaust happened as widely and continuously advertised:
1) They have conducted meaningful research into an immense body of evidence that isn't well-published -- that offers no proof of Nazi homicidal gas chambers, anywhere.
2) They have taken the time and put forth the effort to sensibly examine vast archives of "eyewitness testimonials", (many by inmates that were at the same camps at the same time), to discover wildly contradictory renditions of "homicidal gas chambers", routine procedures and associated "cruelty."
3) They are aware of many previous "holocausts", widely and repeatedly claimed in major US publications and newspapers from 1897 through 1939, (before the outbreak of WWII), always with 6 million Jewish victims.
4) They grasp the significance of the loss of "6 million Jews" woven into Judaism, a prerequisite of the founding of a Jewish state in Israel.
5) They understand that world Jewry and the Zionist leadership openly declared economic war on the German people and against the German nation in 1933, 6 years before WWII began.
6) They are aware that world Jewish population figures from numerous sources, (including the Jewish World Almanac and the American Jewish Committee), before and after the "holocaust", consistently demonstrate an increase in world Jewish population.
7) They are aware that once-alleged "death tolls" at various "death camps" have been steadily amended and revised over the years, always downward -- to include at Auschwitz (from 4 million to 1.1 million) and at Mauthausen (from 2 million to 95 thousand) -- yet the claim of "6 million murdered Jews" remains unchanged.
They are aware that many Jews in influential positions, months and years before WWII ended, predicted that 6 million Jews will have been murdered by the Third Reich.
According to the the official three-volume report by the International Red Cross in the years following WWII, the total deaths at all concentration/internment/labor and "extermination" camps that were operated by the Nazi regime was 271,304 -- all nationalities, all religions and from all causes, (typhus and war-time deprivations chief among them).
Based entirely on the complete wartime German concentration camp records that had been captured by the Soviets and (at the time) recently released, the New York Times on March 3, 1991 reported that the Auschwitz death total was 73,137. Of those, 38,031 were Jews.
In the years following WWII, in their respective autobiographies, neither Winston Churchill nor Dwight Eisenhower make any mention of any Nazi concentration camp "gas chambers", "extermination camps" or any program/policy of mass murder carried out against the Jews -- or any other group of people.
Jewish prophecies in the Torah (the old testament) require that 6 million Jews must "vanish" before the state of Israel can be formed. "You shall return minus 6 million." That's why Tom Segev, an Israeli historian, declared that the number "6 million" is an attempt to transform the Holocaust story into state religion. Those six million Jews, according to prophecy, had to disappear in "burning ovens", which the judicial version of the Holocaust now supposedly authenticates. As a matter of fact, Robert B. Goldmann writes: ". . . without the Holocaust, there would be no Jewish State." A simple consequence: Given six million Jews gassed at Auschwitz and other such "extermination camps" who ended up in the "burning ovens" (the Greek word holocaust means burned offerings), therefore, the prophecies have now been "fulfilled" and Israel can (and has) become a "legitimate state".
With only cursory research, it is obvious that Germany's war efforts were progressing poorly by mid 1944 -- and was widely recognized by late 1943 -- as the American/British invasion of Europe was imminent. Germany's defeat was a very real possiblility. Yet we are to believe that the German high command, Hitler, his generals and advisors devoted precious materials, resources and manpower to administering an immense system of rounding up, transporting, processing, gassing and cremating Jews on an industrial scale -- and made this mission a higher priority that that of winning the war -- a war that critically depended on these very resources and manpower.
Welcome to the Forum.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], hermod and 4 guests