Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

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NLH
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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby NLH » 2 years 11 months ago (Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:28 pm)

Interview is up: http://www.ancreport.com/podcast/eric-h ... treblinka/

NLH wrote:Well, it looks like David has responded to Erics reply, amd will post it soon: https://www.facebook.com/antizionist/po ... 2536480662


"Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."
- Kitty Hart-Moxon, Jewish Holocaust Survivor.

June 1998 testimony, USC Shoah Foundation, Visual History Archive.
Part 2 - YouTube - 1:21:42

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby diaz52 » 2 years 11 months ago (Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:11 pm)

NLH wrote:Interview is up: http://www.ancreport.com/podcast/eric-h ... treblinka/

NLH wrote:Well, it looks like David has responded to Erics reply, amd will post it soon: https://www.facebook.com/antizionist/po ... 2536480662



Great, great interview Eric. Man I'd love to hear a debate between you and David. That would, as they say, be effin epic! Ry would indeed be a fine moderator too, hopefully it'll happen! Ry was also right on when he spoke up about financial support for those who are putting in the work and utilizing the amazing media technologies now available. The project you mentioned that is in the works sounds very interesting. I've done what I can in terms of donations and certainly encourage others to help out as best they can as well. I know times are tough but lets all do what we can. Peace.
-You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
-The establishment can't control the web, and the control of information through all means but one, is no control at all.

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Eric Hunt » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:23 am)

My response to Cole's libelous writing. http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/5335#comment-8372

Cole, you are a liar. What you’re writing is libelous.

I’m not schizophrenic and you know this. You just made that up in your sick mind. Are you? Never once have I ever been alleged to be schizophrenic. You are the first liar to bring that up.

Society couldn’t understand why I would dare question the Holocaust story. Despite having no history of mental illness, I was labelled Bipolar. If it helped me get out of jail and get all of the revisionist work I have accomplished done since then, rather than being sent to San Quentin for seven years, which coincidentally, has a gas chamber, fine.

All this for about eight years ago, grabbing Wiesel by the sleeve, letting go, and saying ” I want to interview you” twice when I was 22 years old. I was coming to terms with being lied to all my life, I didn’t have a camera phone on me, they weren’t invented yet.

I saw this coming from you, because that’s all you have is namecalling and character assassination. Not to mention the stupid strawman arguments you create about me claiming you and Irving are conspiring.

You are afraid to debate me on Ry Dawson’s show on the topic of Treblinka.

And your stance on Treblinka isn’t even justified using your own twisted “logic.”

As I wrote, you believe every Auschwitz sonderkomando (Jews who claim they worked inside gas chambers dragging gassed Jews to ovens) is a pathological liar. Yet all those Treblinka clowns telling similar stories are telling the God’s honest truth? And you’re the smartest person in the world for differentiating between the two?

It’s no surprise you don’t want to debate that position publicly.

Post 2

Cole has still NOT responded to my article. There are countless points he refuses to address.

http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/response-to-david-cole/

The countless points Cole refuses to address are the most important ones.

Cole is holding tight to his Korherr code word that “evacuation” means 1.2 million Jews were all gassed in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms, buried, cremated, and reburied.

We know Jews were sent East, how were they sent? Through the Warthegua and General Government. It’s a Big Lie to cliam Jews such as Heinz Rosenberg weren’t sent all the way from Hamburg to Minsk and even back (allegedly through Treblinka on the way back!). There are countless trainloads of Jews we know were sent to Minsk and Maly Trostinecs and similar locations.

Of course Cole doesn’t want to point out the Shoah Foundation transitees I pointed out that were actually settled in the Lublin district, just as Korherr asked when he wanted clarification.

He doesn’t want to talk about any physical evidence. He wants to point to a statistician’s incomplete report. Korherr had no knowledge whatsoever of extermination camps with “gas chambers disguised as shower rooms.” Korherr wrote multiple times that he didn’t have information on anything past these “Reinhardt” camps due to the chaotic ongoing war.

Cole sets up really dumb strawmen arguments like the below one for him to knock down and do victory dances over.

“Eric Hunt doesn’t allow this. He claims to psychically “know” that David Irving and I are just pretending to disagree with him. It’s actually quite astounding that Irving, a man I have neither seen nor spoken to since 1995, would collaborate with me on a plot to pretend to disagree with Hunt,.”

First of all, I could care less if you disagree with me. I just think your claims are unsupportable, based on my visits to Treblinka itself, studying decades worth of Revisionist information, and researching it myself, which is why you refuse to debate your unsustainable point of view.

Of course I never claimed to “psychically” “know that you two are just pretending to “disagree with me.” That’s just more hateful lies you’re spreading to try to have people perceive me as schizo, right, liar? And I never once claimed you collaborated to disagree.

Both you and Irving changed your stances due to severe persecution. Irving suffered far more than you of course, locked up in Austrian jail for a year and a half. Both of your alleged beliefs are transparent results of this persecution and are weak and indefensible (which is why both of you refuse to debate). Irving has been challenged by Berg, you must have been asked dozens of times to debate me on various radio shows too.

That being said, I have nothing against Irving and support anyone who has suffered as a result of persecution. I just think he should debate Berg if he wants to claim 900,000 Jews were machine gunned into pits at Treblinka.

And you should debate me. But you prefer snarky third party posted Facebook posts, right?

I wrote

“Many Revisionists know that Irving is playing word games to avoid being thrown in prison again, but what’s Cole’s excuse? Cole himself doesn’t believe 900,000 Jews were machine gunned into pits at Treblinka, so what is his angle? I would say that someone who claims 900,000 Jews were machine gunned into pits at Treblinka, although there are 900,000 missing bodies, bullets and bullet casings was a “Holocaust historian” spreading untruths and impossibilities, not a “real Revisionist.”

I believe Irving is muddling his claims in order to stay out of prison and to have a better public perception of him.”

Make no doubt about it, David can’t debate his unsupportable view on any radio show.

He just wants to hurl more abuse and lies at honest revisionists.

This is what I “survived” – Image
Watch THE TREBLINKA ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX

http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/treblinka-archaeology-hoax

Semitism = Jewish Supremacism

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Werd » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:35 am)

Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the “Reinhardt” Camps
Posted by admin on Tuesday, August 12, 2014
http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/5335

Smith publishes private emails because he confuses airing dirty laundry with open debate. Mainly it’s because he’s too lazy, old, and ill to come up with any actual new material. In this most recent instance, he published my private correspondences in truncated form and with no context. And when I attempted to add context, he accused me of trying to “exploit my dying mother to help me win the sympathy of the reader.”

No, asshole. I was attempting to give context to private emails that you chose to publish in an edited form. Here’s an idea – don’t keep posting private emails. But if you do, don’t attack the person whose emails you put online for trying to provide context to things that were never intended to be seen publicly.

That Bradley would post my private emails and then accuse me of “exploiting” my “dying mother” is beyond vile. It’s probably the worst thing anyone has ever done to me. I will never forgive him.

Also, Smith recently dredged up and posted Faurisson’s ‘94 attacks against me without linking to my response from ‘95. That’s Bradley’s “open debate” for you.

For everyone who is acting as shocked as a Southern gal with the vapors over my Treblinka views, I will refer to that piece I wrote about Faurisson in ‘95. I never thought I’d ever say “thank God for Nizkor,” but, well, thank God for Nizkor, for preserving the piece:

As an example, I’ll point specifically to Faurisson’s response to David Irving’s “Journal of Historical Review” essay/conference speech on the Goebbels diary, appearing in the letters section of the current “Journal of Historical Review” (March/April ’95). Faurisson quotes from the March 27, 1942 Goebbels diary entry, and then writes “In itself, this last sentence (“Broadly speaking, one can probably say that 60 percent of them will have to be liquidated, while only 40 percent can be put to work” – Goebbels) tends to show that the Reich Minister of Propaganda did not know for sure that there was a German policy to physically exterminate the Jews, either totally or in part.”

“IN PART?” What does he think Goebbels is referring to, if not a liquidation IN PART. Faurisson is pulling an old “exterminationist” trick here by quoting a passage and then TELLING us what we’ve just read, hoping we won’t notice any incongruity between the passage and Faurisson’s explanation. Faurisson is quoting a passage that speaks of exterminations in part – AT LEAST in part, and then he TELLS us that we in fact HAVEN’T just read what we’ve read – with no explanation given to clarify why Goebbels isn’t actually saying what he so clearly seems to be saying. I think Faurisson has grown too used to having his word taken as gospel. Naked emperors don’t only exist on the “exterminationist” side. Faurisson’s description of the March 27 Goebbels diary entry reminds me of page 120 of dear old Mel Mermelstein’s book, where he shows a picture of Krema 1 and writes in the caption “note the pipes and shower heads above.”

The importance (to me) of this Goebbels diary passage is that for the first time we have a reliable piece of evidence which points to a plan of separation between those Jews fit for “labor” and the rest, who “have to be liquidated.” Hate it though some of us may, this fits the “exterminationist” model much better than it does the revisionist one. If revisionists wish to explain this passage some other way, they’ll have to do better than the explanation offered by Faurisson. For myself, I can say that the meaning of this Goebbels diary passage, IN RELATION to events occurring at that time, has yet to be adequately explained by any revisionist.

Cole is pulling the exterminationist trick by also focusing on just one sentence without looking at the rest of the passage. Remember this from Jurgen Graf?

http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hu ... ebate.html
According to the “holocaust” story, the first “extermination camp,” Chelmno, started to function as early as in December 1941. Since it is unthinkable that a local commander would have set up an “extermination camp” without an order from the highest authorities, an extermination policy must already have existed in late 1941, if the claims about Chelmno are correct (which the revisionists dispute[42]). Being one of the leading figures of the Third Reich, Dr. Goebbels would of course have known about such an extermination policy, so how do the “holocaust” historians explain the fact that he spoke of the concentration of the Jews in the East and advocated assigning them Madagascar (or another island) as late as on 7 March 1942?

Let’s sum up: While the revisionists are unable to explain the second entry in Goebbels’ diary, the “holocaust” historians are at a loss to explain the first one! It is unlikely that this mystery will ever be solved.

The entry was discussed a long time ago [url=forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3793&start=45]here[/url] and Roberto Muehlenkamp's new interpretation about them intending Jews to die in Madagascar anyway, hinged on Wansee being where the decision was made to physically exterminate the Jews. In other words, Madgascar was not a plan of evacuation, but still a plan of extermination, albiet slow kill extermination. Hence revisionists lose when they birng up Madagascar he claims. But that of course does not work.

Reinhard wrote:
so how do the “holocaust” historians explain the fact that he spoke of the concentration of the Jews in the East and advocated assigning them Madagascar (or another island) as late as on 7 March 1942?


Hitler himself mentioned in his tabletalk Africa (on May 29th, 1942) and Madagascar (»or another Jewish national state«) on July 24th, 1942 as a place where the Jews were to be deported after the war twice after the Goebbels diary entry of March 7th, 1942.

Source: Henry Picker, »Hitlers Tischgespräche«, Ullstein, Munich 1989, pp. 340 & 456


As well, on page four in Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Again! , I showed how Jonathan Harrison mucks up the chronology about when the nazis were supposed to have killed the Jews and I exposed Jonathan Harrison for being the real liar and distorter of the Wisleceny issue as well as distorting MGK's text in Sobibor about how high in the pyramid of German power discussion of the madagascar plan went. So if Cole thinks he has won anything about the March 27 diary entry, he is clearly mistaken.

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Werd » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:27 pm)

Let's move on to his interpretation of the Korherr report. It takes up the majority of his article.

Korherr, whose report is considered authentic by even the most extreme revisionists like Mattogno and Graf, clearly states that those “evacuees” are no longer in ghettos and concentration camps. Further, Korherr states that “From 1937 to the beginning of 1943, the number of Jews in Europe has diminished by an estimated 4 million, partially due to emigration, partially due to the excess mortality of the Jews in Central and Western Europe, partially due to the evacuations especially in the more strongly populated Eastern Territories, die hier als Abgang gerechnet werdenwhich (which are here counted as departed).”

Let's check some of his numbers as given by Eric Hunt.

V. THE EVACUATION OF THE JEWS

……
All evacuations on the territory of the Reich and including the eastern territories and further in the German area of power and influence in Europe from October 1939 or later until 31.12.1942 resulted in the following numbers:

1. Evacuation of Jews from Baden
and the Palatinate to France ……. 6 504 Jews
2. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich
territory incl. the Protectorate and
Bialystok district to the East…… 170 642 “
3. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich
area and the Protectorate
to Theresienstadt…………….. 87 193
4. Transportation of Jews from the
eastern provinces to the Russian
East: ………………………. 1 449 692 “
The following numbers were sifted
through the camps in the General
government …………. …….. 1 274 166 Jews
through the camps in the Warthegau….. 145 301 Jews

5. Evacuation from other
countries, namely:
France (insofar as occupied
before 10.11.1942 )…………… 41 911 Jews
Netherlands…………………… 38 571 “
Belgium………………………. 16 886 “
Norway ……………………… 532 “

Slovakia…………….. 56 691 Jews
Crotia ……………. 4 927 “
——————————

Evacuations total(incl.
Theresienstadt and incl.
special treatment)……….. 1 873 549 Jews
w./o Theresienstadt………. 1 786 356 “

6. In addition, according to data from
the Reichssicherheitshauptamt
there is the evacuation of… 633 300 Jews
in the Russian territories
incl. the former Baltic
countries since the beginning of the
Eastern Campaign.

The above numbers do not include the inmates of ghettoes and concentration camps.

Cole continues...

The “evacuees” were not in ghettos or camps.

Yes, Korherr just said that. Thanks for showing you know how to read.

Europe (ALL of Europe under German control – West, Central, and East) had LOST approximately 4 million Jews by 1943. The causes for the “loss?” Emigration (which Korherr rightly points out was prohibited in autumn 1941), excess mortality caused by deaths-over-births (including old age and suicide, which Korherr mentions specifically), and post-1941 EVACUATIONS.

Post 1941 evacuations? The plan of extermination was allegedly decided upon sometime in late 1941 or mid 1942. They claim Hitler and the nazis are supposed to have decided to kill all the Jews in January 1942 at Wansee. Go to my post here on page 4 of Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Again! and read point 63 by Mattogno from his new big book. You will see how this makes no sense.

Although I do have one question. Why was emigration halted in 1941? Who halted it and why? Is it because a war was going on and labour was needed? Why would they halt emigration if the plan for Madagascar did not die a full death until 1942? Remember that Goebells in the first week of March 1942 in his diary was talking about Madagascar as something that was still able to be accomplished. Yet according to wikipedia, "Hitler continued to mention the Plan until February 1942, when the idea was permanently shelved.[21]" This is a trick question. I have an answer below. Let's keep going...

Hunt accuses me of reading too much into Korherr’s “code words.” “Code words?” Son, do you speak German? “Abgang” is not a code word. It is a really straightforward German word. It means gone, departed, dispatched.

Gone where? Departed where? Maybe Kues is telling us with his series evidence for the presence of gassed jews in occupied territories.
http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... d_jews.php


And “zurückgegangen,” the term Korherr uses to describe the state of European Jewry and the 4 million figure, is also not a code word. Again, it’s a straightforward, normal term for “decreased,” “declined,” or “diminished.”

Interesting...

No code words, Eric. The “evacuees” are gone, but not by emigration, suicide, or old age. They are GONE. Employing no “code words,” Korherr states unambiguously that they are gone from Western Europe, Central Europe, and Eastern Europe. Employing no “code words,” Korherr states that there are approximately 4 million fewer Jews in all of Europe (Western, Central, and Eastern) – a four million Jewish DECREASE, DECLINE – as the result of pre-1941 emigration from the Reich proper, excess deaths from old age and suicide, and EVACUATIONS. Evacuees are counted as “departed.”

There is no evidence, not one ounce of evidence, that the nearly 2.5 million Jews counted as evacuees were simply transferred somewhere else. There is ample evidence that thousands of evacuees were indeed used for labor. A thousand here, a thousand there. But we’re talking about a total figure of almost two-and-a-half million. Plus, we’re talking about a hell of a lot of “Jews unfit for labor” in that group. The revisionist challenge, for those who won’t accept the conclusion held by me, Irving, and Weber, is to account for this massive number of Jews (where were they sent? There are ample records that they were sent to the Reinhardt camps…why no records of where those millions of people ended up next?) and – most significantly – where were all of the unemployable Jews sent?

Maybe to Auschwitz where even to the end of the war, they were still constructing barracks for sick people. In other words, building more. Remember all those people in Eric Hunt's film claiming they passed through to Treblinka and even to Auschwitz sometimes? Not all of them. I'm sure some were liquidated physically.

Furthermore, you want to talk about word games Cole? Why did you never respond to this from Eric Hunt?
Up to the beginning of 1943 exterminationists claim the Korherr report proves 1,274,166 were gassed at Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor (in the General Government district). In addition they allege this document proves 145,301 Jews were gassed at Chelmno, in the Warthegau district.

From the original German -

4. Transportierung von Juden aus den
Ostprovinzen nach dem russischen
Osten: ………………………. 1 449 692 “
Es wurden durchgeschleust
durch die Lager im General-
gouvernement………………… 1 274 166 Juden
durch die Lager im Warthegau….. 145 301 Juden

The following is a deliberate mis-translation of Korherr from hoaxer organization H.E.A.R.T., often cited by Caroline Sturdy Colls.


Transportation of the Jews from the Eastern Provinces to the Russian .............1449692
East Number passed through the camps in the General Government ..............1274166
Through the camp at Warthegau......................145301


However in the original German, the plural “die” is used is used rather than singular “das”. This means Korherr is referencing more than one camp in the Warthegau district. Many camps. We are told that the section “durch die Lager im Warthegau” means Chelmno, however that can only be arrived at through a deliberate mistranslation.

So the exterminationists need to deliberately mistranslate this section in order to fit the “Four extermination centers” of Chelmno, Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor narrative.

So not only do exterminations want to point to this section of Korherr and claim it uses code words to describe extermination, they also have to deliberately mistranslate it to fit their false mass-gassing-in-four-extermination-centers narrative.

Uh-oh. More than one camp in the Warthegau district. More than the alleged 4 big killing centers. Must be a system of evacuation to the east. Cole says I don't use code words, just look at the German definitions of abgang and zurückgegangen. Departed. Decreased. Diminshed. :lol: Folks, none of these mean murder or physical extermination. They are semi poetic words that COULD be used to describe murder but not necessarily. Korherr is talking about NUMBERS of Jews. So when they evacuate Jews to places like France and even Russia, of course the NUMBERS are going to be dimished since the Jews have departed to other places.

Emigation was halted and evacuation was favoured David. The nazis probably thought like this: Since we can't use emigation to various places AROUND THE WORLD including something as far away as Madagascar in AFRICA, we will have to settle for evacuating them to the fringes of Europe and out of Germany. That's not so crazy. Especially when you consider the following from Eric Hunt.

We’re told by the exterminationists that the four “Operation Reinhard death camps” were Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, and Chelmno.

The “discovery” of the Höfle telegram added another camp – L, alleged to be Lublin-Majdanek. We know this wasn’t a pure extermination camp and in fact David Cole denies anyone was gassed at Majdanek whatsoever. So there you have an “Operation Reinhardt” camp mentioned alongside “T,B,S” which we know tens of thousands were subsequently deported from.

Alright, so now there are 5 Operation Reinhardt camps…

However below we can see Birkenau is specifically mentioned by Pohl as “Station 2 of Action Reinhardt”

On Pohl’s visit to Birkenau on September 23, 1942 he refers to visiting “Station 2 der Aktion Reinardt”

http://gaschamberhoax.com/wp-content/up ... c-hunt.gif

So that makes “6 Operation Reinhardt” camps now…

NOT the four claimed by Cole and exterminationists. And there are many more. Treblinka wasn’t in Lublin district, Birkenau too. Chelmno also.

Operation Reinhardt must have been a camp network wide system for the plunder of Jewish wealth, evacuation, and utilization of their labor, not four “extermination centers” as parroted by Cole.

Busted!

There is no evidence, not one ounce of evidence, that the nearly 2.5 million Jews counted as evacuees were simply transferred somewhere else. There is ample evidence that thousands of evacuees were indeed used for labor. A thousand here, a thousand there. But we’re talking about a total figure of almost two-and-a-half million. Plus, we’re talking about a hell of a lot of “Jews unfit for labor” in that group. The revisionist challenge, for those who won’t accept the conclusion held by me, Irving, and Weber, is to account for this massive number of Jews (where were they sent? There are ample records that they were sent to the Reinhardt camps…why no records of where those millions of people ended up next?) and – most significantly – where were all of the unemployable Jews sent?

Yawn.
J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?'
Treblinka and railway gauge.

Here's another question David. Why don't you ask the Russians why they banned revisionism and have their archives under lock and key now? What's wrong? Afraid we may find more evidence of many seperated brothers like the Hollanders who mistakenly think the other is dead? The Russians by preventing revisionists from getting the answers they know the revisionists will to questions such as, 'where did they go then?', have a vested interest in making Germany look the worst in the forties.

While you're at it, why don't you ask the gas chamber mongers why they have to lie in their printed works about the locations of certain documents because they fear deep down revisionists will get a hold of them and expose the real contents? Graf and mattogno went through hell trying to get all the needed material to publish Mattogno's book in Italian on the Soviet interrogations of Kurt Prufer and others?
The relevant reports appeared in the panorama of historiography only the opening of the Moscow archives after the collapse of the Soviet Union. During our various study trips to Moscow, J ü rgen Graf and I tried them tenaciously, until we were able to locate the file in which they are stored; finally, in February 2002, Graf was able to access it and make copies.

With reference to it, in 2007 the Holocaust historian Michael Thad Allen wrote with evident anger:

"The dr. Schule informs me that some of the interrogation [of engineers] Topf that are not accessible to historians have found their way into the websites of the "deniers" of the Holocaust. So someone is granted access to these documents. It's irritating that you at least have had full access to the deniers instead of professional historians. "

The information was false, however, because the documents in question were discovered in October 1990 by Gerald Fleming, who published the short extracts, carefully selected, in July 1993 1 . they then passed somehow to 'Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington , which in 2000 put them at the disposal of Jean-Claude Pressac; these, in 2003, ceded it to the Gedenkst Atte Buchenwald, which had them translated into German. However, to date, despite the obvious importance of this document, no historian Holocaust has seen fit to publish a complete record of the interrogations of the Topf engineers.

1 Fleming provided false data on both the name of the archive, both on the location of the documents, which made ​​it more difficult for our research.

And revisionists are dishonest? :D

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Werd » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:47 pm)

Look at this little game that Mattogno and Graf play in “Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp.” Citing Christian Gerlach’s “Kalkulierte Morde,” Mattogno and Graf crow, “The deportation of Polish Jews to White Russia was, according to C. Gerlach, ‘extremely extensive.’”

Let me give the quote from the book.
From what has been established here, it emerges that a portion of the Jews deported to the Lublin district were deported across the Bug into the Ukraine.
Dutch, French, and Czech Jews reached Minsk.[771] The deportation of Polish Jews to White Russia was, according to C. Gerlach, “extremely extensive” [772]
and they were “taken to Minsk by railway”. [773]

771 C. Gerlach, op. cit. (note 419), p. 761.
772 Ibid., p. 762.
773 Ibid., p. 763.

Cole continues...

Oh, THAT’S where they went! Belarus! Case closed. Let’s move on. The believers’ morphine has been administered. No need to fret about this supposed “problem” again.

Except that Mattogno and Graf, who use the “extremely extensive” quote to end their chapter titled “Final Destination of Jews Deported to the East,” employ the quote misleadingly, and don’t tell you what comes after it. “Umfangreichsten” (Gerlach’s term) is better translated as “most extensive,” and Gerlach was using that term in a chapter titled “Die Verschleppung von Juden aus anderen Ländern nach Weißrußland.” Of transports to Belarus from the Protectorate, France, the Netherlands, Hungary, and Poland, Gerlach states that the “most extensive” figure was for the Polish Jews (in comparison to the other transports).

I think you need to read the quote again from Mattogno/Graf. "A portion of the Jews deported to the Lublin district were deported across the Bug into the Ukraine." The other key words you use David that give away your game is this: "Gerlach states that the “most extensive” figure was for the Polish Jews (in comparison to the other transports)"
So what's your problem. You basically admitted there were many other transports occuring. You can't deny that for you would look like a fool since the whole chapter 6 "Final Destination of Jews Deported to the East" cites many examples. Sure it's not the missing 2.5 million (who were evacuated) that you were looking for, but Korherr's data combined with my interpretation and Eric Hunt's interpretation show that evacuation means in fact evacuation and you are grasping at German straws. Emigation (to Africa) was scrapped in favour of evacuation (to the east).

And here Mattogno and Graf lose in spectacular fashion. After committing themselves to Gerlach as a credible source, here’s what comes after “most extensive” (so as not to be accused of monkeying with the translation, I’ll use revisionist Thomas Kues’ translation from the Inconvenient History website):

Well if Treblinka had the capacity to kill 900,000 Jews in thirteen gas chambers David, what the hell would be the point of attempting to move these thousands of Jews out of Germany proper anyway? Why are you avoiding a basic principle that is staring you in the face? Why do you argue like the goons over at holocaust controversies? Now that we have discussed briefly the Mattogno/Graf book from Barnes, which is merely a reprint of the 2nd corrected edition from Theses and Dissertations Press 2005, let's get to Thomas Kues' work whose publishing date is 2011 according to the link - which you were not forthcoming with David.
http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... part_3.php


Most extensive were probably the deportations of Polish Jews to Belarus. Also in this case it was the question of labor forces. The offices and enterprises of the SS and Police in the so-called “Rußland-Mitte”, roughly corresponding to the eastern [military administered] part of Belarus, were to be concentrated in two cities: Mogilev and Bobruisk. In Mogilev there existed the already described forced labor camp of the HSSPF, in Bobruisk there was in early 1942 a need for manpower in connection with the construction of a large base planned for theWaffen-SS. The head of the supply commander’s office of the Waffen-SS and Police of Rußland-Mitte, SS-Standartenführer Georg Martin, got the idea to establish a “KL” (concentration camp) and have Jews sent to it from Warsaw. On the intervention of the RSHA 960 Jewish men and youths, part of them summoned by an appeal, part of them arrested during razzias in the Warsaw Ghetto, were then transported to Bobruisk on 30 May 1942. On 28 July a further train with Warsaw Jews reached Bobruisk; part of the Jews were sent on to Smolensk. In Bobruisk the Jews also had to perform work for units of the Wehrmacht. Of the approximately 1,500 deportees only 91 male Jews were involved in the retreat to Lublin in September 1943, since all the others had fallen victims to the constant Selections, the toil, the starvation and the terrible maltreatment. Moreover there were possibly one or more transports whose passengers were shot immediately at arrival.

Several thousand Jews, sent for labor. Not several hundred thousand employable and unemployable Jews sent for resettling. And these are the transports that Gerlach describes as the “most extensive.” So, a few thousand is the “most extensive?” Wow. Mattogno and Graf should have left Gerlach alone. He doesn’t help their case. Once again, we see small transports for labor only, an infinitesimal fraction of the 2,419,656 evacuees listed by Korherr.

What Mattogno and Graf were attemtping to do in the early 2000's before they published their book in 2005 originally under T&D Press (2nd corrected edition), was that they had just begun to scratch the surface of the mystery of where the Jews went if not to their deaths in Treblinka. Thus, if Treblinka was not a transit camp, these Jews should not have survived, and yet they did. In other words there are more examples out there. Which you seem to know very well deep down since you are letting the world know you are aware of Kues' series of articles showing where the so called gassed Jews ended up. Again, emigation, which included places worldwide like Africa, had to be dropped in favour of evacuation to the east in places like the Ukraine across the Bug river. The latter was just easier to accomplish. Thus there is nothing sinister in the Korherr report. Don't make me beat this dead horse again.

Mattogno and Graf should have left Kube alone as well. In their zeal to find ANY evidence of Polish Jews who actually were sent into the Eastern territories, the authors write:

Finally, the arrival of at least one transport from the Warsaw Ghetto at a location east of Treblinka has been documented beyond any question. On 31 July 1942, the Reichskommissar for White Russia, Wilhelm Kube, sent a telegram to the Reichskommissar for the Ostland, Heinrich Lohse, in which he protested the dispatching of a transport of “1,000 Jews from Warsaw to work at Minsk,” because this would lead to danger of epidemics and an increase in partisan activity.


Another spectacular Mattogno/Graf fail. After committing themselves to the fact that the Kube/Lohse telegram is authentic and reliable, they fail to quote the entire thing. I’ll do that now:

Re: Combating Partisans and Aktion against Jews in the Generalbezirk of Belorussia

In all the clashes with the partisans in Belorussia it has proved that Jewry, both in the formerly Polish, as well as in the formerly Soviet parts of the District General, is the main bearer of the partisan movement, together with the Polish resistance movement in the East and the Red Army from Moscow. In consequence, the treatment of Jewry in Belorussia is a matter of political importance owing to the danger to the entire economy. It must therefore be solved in accordance with political considerations and not merely economic needs. Following exhaustive discussions with the SS Brigadefuehrer Zenner and the exceedingly capable Leader of the SD, SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. jur. Strauch, we have liquidated about 55,000 Jews in Belorussia in the past 10 weeks. In the area of Minsk county Jewry has been completely eliminated without any danger to the manpower requirements. In the predominantly Polish area of Lida, 16,000 Jews were liquidated, in Slonim, 8,000, etc.

Owing to encroachment by the Army Rear Zone (Command), which has already been reported, there was interference with the preparations we had made for the liquidation of the Jews in Glebokie. Without contacting me, the Army Rear Zone Command liquidated 10,000 Jews, whose systematic elimination had in any case been planned by us. In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on July 28 and 29. Of these 6,500 were Russian Jews – mainly old men, women and children – and the rest, Jews incapable of work, who were sent to Minsk in November of last year by order of the Fuehrer, mainly from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and Berlin. The District of Sluzk has also been relieved of several thousand Jews. The same applies to Nowogrodek and Wilejka. Radical measures are planned for Baranowitschi and Hanzewitschi. In Baranowitschi there are still another 10,000 Jews in the city itself, of whom 9,000 will be liquidated next month.

In the city of Minsk about 2,600 Jews from Germany have remained. In addition all of the 6,000 Russian Jews and Jewesses remained alive who were employed during the Aktion by various units [of the Wehrmacht]. In future, too, Minsk will remain the largest Jewish element owing to the concentration of armament industries in the area and as the requirements of the railroad make this necessary for the time being. In all other areas the number of Jews used for work will be reduced by the SD and myself to a maximum of 800, and, if possible, 500, so that when the remaining planned Aktionen have been completed there will be 8,600 in Minsk and about 7,000 Jews in the 10 other districts, including the Jew-free Minsk District. There will then be no further danger that the partisans can still rely to any real extent on Jewry. Naturally I and the SD would like it best if Jewry in the Generalbezirk of Belorussia was finally eliminated after their labor is no longer required by the Wehrmacht. For the time being the essential requirements of the Wehrmacht, the main employer of Jewry, are being taken into consideration.

In addition to this unambiguous attitude towards Jewry, the SD in Belorussia also has the onerous task of continually transferring new transports of Jews from the Reich to their destination. This causes excessive strain on the physical and spiritual capacities of the personnel of the SD, and withdraws them from duties within the area of Belorussia itself.

I should therefore be grateful if the Reichskommissar could see his way to stopping further deportations of Jews to Minsk at least until the danger from the partisans has been finally overcome. I need 100 percent of the SD manpower against the Partisans and the Polish Resistance Movement, which together occupy the entire strength of the not overwhelmingly strong SD units. After completion of the Aktion against the Jews in Minsk, SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. Strauch reported to me this night, with justified indignation, that suddenly, without instructions from the Reichsfuehrer, and without notification to the Generalkommissar, a transport of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw has arrived for the local Luftwaffe Command.

I beg the Reichskommissar (already warned by telegram) to prevent the dispatch of such transports, in his capacity as supreme authority in Ostland. The Polish Jew, exactly like the Russian Jew, is an enemy of the German nation. He represents a politically dangerous element, a danger which far exceeds his value as a skilled worker. Under no circumstances should the army or the Luftwaffe import Jews into an area under civil administration, either from the Generalgouvernement or from elsewhere, without the approval of the Reichskommissar, as this endangers the entire political task here and the security of the Generalbezirk. I am in full agreement with the Commander of the SD in Belorussia that we should liquidate every transport of Jews not arranged, or announced to us, by our superior officers, to prevent further disturbances in Belorussia.



Do these sound like the words of a man who is running a bucolic no-kill resettlement village for Polish (and other) Jews? That transport of 1,000 Jews that Mattogno and Graf wave above their heads like the Stanley Cup was unexpected and unwanted. Plus, there’s all that talk from Kube about mass murder. But I think you probably got that point already.

No, they sound like someone who is trying to deal with the attacks of partisans in the occupied territories. However, it is true that probably many Jews who were not partisans were executed, but many partisans were in fact Jews. In fact, there is a series of essays out The suppressed History of Crimes committed on German soldiers in WWII by Wilfried Heink. As stated on codoh by Wilf, who is in fact Wilfried Heink...

neugierig @ Legitimate Nazi Atrocities
The book “Verbrechen der Sieger. Das Schicksal der deutschen Kriegsgefangenen in Osteuropa” (Crimes of the victors. The fate of German POW’s in Eastern Europe [volume two re. the fate of them in the west has disappeared]), provides some details concerning partisan activity and what the EG had to deal with. Just imagine discovering the bodies of your comrades, people you have depended upon and been with for some time, the bodies mutilated, genitals cut off, the tongue cut out, etc. I thank God that I have never been in that situation, because I have no idea how I would have reacted. This happened again and again, and I can well imagine that if a commander had the means to wipe out some in reprisal, did so, and who can blame him?

Having said that, I also believe that we should not glorify anybody, there was a war on and crap happens. Hitler had warned his generals that the war in the east would be different from whatever they had experienced ‘till then, he was right.

Regards
Wilf


Furthermore, what you accuse Mattogno and Graf of leaving out in Treblinka, they get more into Kube in "The Extermination Camps of Aktion Reinhardt." From page 345-346, point 111 specifically, Mattogno/Graf/Kues, whoever wrote that fifth chapter, freely quoted more from Kube. In fact he quoted this July 31 1942 letter extensively. What you have David, subtract the last three paragraphs and you have what MGK freely quoted in their massive book TECOAR. Although, when read side by side, their translation varies from yours. You never give your source for your translation, but MGK are forthcoming with their footnotes, which is more than I can say about you. All MGK say following their longer quotation is this in page 346. "The massacres, even in their brutality, were therefore motivated by the anti-partisan war and not by an extermination order of Jews for being Jews." Sounds pretty obvious to me David. Maybe David, it is YOU who should leave Kube alone and let professional historians (yes, that is what Graf and Kues and Mattogno are since they have decades of experience between them and all are multi lingual), worry about Kube.

Page 655-656.
It goes without saying that difficult or even dismal conditions with regard to housing, hygiene, health and nourishment in particular areas would have posed great obstacles to the actual settlement of Jews. On the other hand it is clear from documents such as the correspondence between Wilhem Kube and Heinrich Lohse following the unannounced arrival of 1,000 Warsaw Jews in Minsk on 31 July 1942 (see below) that the resettlement of the Jews was a priority which overrode the concerns of local administration on such issues, that the deportation program was to be carried out no matter what, and that local authorities were left to deal with the problems resulting from the implementation of the resettlement program as best they could. That the authorities in charge were aware that the resettlement of the Jews under the prevailing conditions would take a considerable toll of lives, especially among the western Jews who were accustomed to modern comforts and to a large
extent strangers to hard physical labor, is demonstrated by a letter written on 21 June 1942 by Walter Föhl [1374] who was Head of the Main Department
with the Reich Commissariat for the Consolidation of German Nationhood in Cracow. The letter was addressed to an unknown member of the SS. A section of it reads [1375]:

“Every day now, we have been receiving trains, each with 1,000 Jews from Europe, processing them and housing them in one way or another, and sending them on, right into the swamps of White Ruthenia towards the Arctic Ocean; that is where they will all find themselves when the war is over – if they survive (and the Jews from the Kurfürstendamm or from Vienna or Pressburg surely will not) – not without having built a few motorways. (But we should not talk about that.)”

While not demonstrating genocidal intent, as Götz Aly wants to have it [1376] this letter – which is fully in line with the decisions made at the Wannsee conference – reflects the intention to utilize the deported Jews for forced labor without regard for any losses in human life caused by the process or the generally harsh conditions prevailing in the region of resettlement. The propensity among the National Socialist leadership for pushing large-scale resettlement plans without any concern for the
resettled or the details of the resettlement itself, while leaving such practicalities to be solved by local military or civilian authorities, is clearly demonstrated also by the above-mentioned aborted plan to deport the population of Crimea. Hitler’s evacuation order was passed in the early morning of 3 July 1942 via the administration department of Army Group South to the 11th Army stationed on Crimea, which was given the sole responsibility for planning, organizing and implementing
the deportation of 700,000 people. Incredibly enough, the 11th Army had to draw up a plan for this mass expulsion and determine the destination of the deported within a mere 6 hours.[1377] According to the plan signed by Erich von Manstein, the urban population would be transported by train, while 2,000 of the rural population would depart each day on foot over the two narrow tongues of land connecting Crimea to the Ukraine, marching 20 km per day, with every fourth day a rest day. The
plan foresaw a preparatory period of 10 days (!) before deportations could start. [1378]


1374 Together with Lothar Weirauch, Herbert Heinrich, Richard Türk and Fritz Reuter, Föhl stood
trial in 1962 accused of having organized and carried out deportations in the Lublin district.
All defendants maintained that they had believed the deportations of Jews to Bełżec to be genuine
resettlement actions, and that they had learned of the alleged mass extermination only later,
if at all; Bogdan Musial, Deutsche Zivilverwaltung und Judenverfolgung…, op. cit., pp.
368f.
1375 Fritz Arlt, Polen-, Ukrainer-, Juden-Politik, op. cit., p. 22.
1376 G. Aly, S. Heim, Vordenker der Vernichtung, op. cit., 1993, pp. 216, 251.
1377 M. Oldenburg, Ideologie und militärisches Kalkül, op. cit., p. 128.
1378 Ibid., p. 132.




Furthermore, I recommend readers consult 7.4.2 in TECOAR to see more about how the exterminationists love to distort writings of Kube. I will not beat THIS dead horse anymore. Rather, I recommend the entire seventh chapter. Next..

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Werd
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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Werd » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:11 pm)

I’ll add that just two months after getting the final Korherr Report, Himmler ordered the Ostland ghettos permanently closed, with any Jews capable of work being sent to camps, and the remainder being “evacuated to the East.” Uh, this is the fucking Ostland. There IS no “east.” This is as far east as Nazi territory went. What more proof is needed that, in this instance, “evacuated to the East” is a euphemism?



Let's see this Himmler directive in full.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... tland.html
Field Command, June 21, 1943

Reichsfuehrer SS

Secret

To:

1. The Higher SS and Police Leader (Hoherer SS- und Polizeifuehrer) Ostland

2. Chief of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office (Chef des SS-Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamtes)1) I order that all Jews still remaining in ghettos in the Ostland area be collected in concentration camps.2) I prohibit the withdrawal of Jews from concentration camps for [outside] work from August 1, 1943.3) A concentration camp is to be built near Riga to which will be transferred the entire manufacture of clothing and equipment now operated by the Wehrmacht outside. All private firms will be eliminated. The workshops are to be solely concentration camp workshops. The Chief of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office is requested to see to it that there will be no shortfall in the production required by the Wehrmacht as the result of this reorganization.4) Inmates of the Jewish ghettos who are not required are to be evacuated to the East. 5) As many male Jews as possible are to be taken to the concentration camp in the oil-shale area for the mining of oil-shale.6) The date set for the reorganization of the concentration camps is August 1, 1943.

signed H. Himmler

NO-2403.

Sources: Yad Vashem

* Ostland was one of the two major administrative units of the German civil administration in the occupied territories of the Soviet Union, headed by Alfred Rosenberg, as Reich Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories; the other was Reichskommissariat Ukraine. Ostland included the three Baltic states -- Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia -- as well as western Belorussia and the western Minsk district in Soviet Belorussia.


Back to Cole...
So even if one wants to place the Ostland ghettos as the final “resettlement” destinations, two months after the final Korherr Report, the ghettos were dissolved. Where you gonna put those 2.4 million Jews NOW, bright boys?

We have to check back with the Korherr report of April 1943 once again to see where Jews were evacuated to. Cole also said earlier, if we remember, "The Korherr Report...states that “evacuations” from “the territory of the Reich and including the eastern territories and further in the German area of power and influence in Europe from October 1939 or later until 31.12.1942” add up to 2,419,656 Jews." We have already established that the Korherr report as quoted earlier by Eric Hunt shows where all these evacuated Jews went TO. They went to many places. France. The East. Theresienstadt. Russian East.

V. THE EVACUATION OF THE JEWS

……
All evacuations on the territory of the Reich and including the eastern territories and further in the German area of power and influence in Europe from October 1939 or later until 31.12.1942 resulted in the following numbers:

1. Evacuation of Jews from Baden
and the Palatinate to France ……. 6 504 Jews
2. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich
territory incl. the Protectorate and
Bialystok district to the East…… 170 642 “
3. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich
area and the Protectorate
to Theresienstadt…………….. 87 193
4. Transportation of Jews from the
eastern provinces to the Russian
East: ………………………. 1 449 692 “
The following numbers were sifted
through the camps in the General
government …………. …….. 1 274 166 Jews
through the camps in the Warthegau….. 145 301 Jews

5. Evacuation from other
countries, namely:
France (insofar as occupied
before 10.11.1942 )…………… 41 911 Jews
Netherlands…………………… 38 571 “
Belgium………………………. 16 886 “
Norway ……………………… 532 “

Slovakia…………….. 56 691 Jews
Crotia ……………. 4 927 “
——————————

Evacuations total(incl.
Theresienstadt and incl.
special treatment)……….. 1 873 549 Jews
w./o Theresienstadt………. 1 786 356 “

6. In addition, according to data from
the Reichssicherheitshauptamt
there is the evacuation of… 633 300 Jews
in the Russian territories
incl. the former Baltic
countries since the beginning of the
Eastern Campaign.

The above numbers do not include the inmates of ghettoes and concentration camps.

So Korherr's report dates from April 1943 two months before Himmler closes all the Ostland ghettos, says David Cole. Cole also says "The Korherr Report...states that “evacuations” from “the territory of the Reich and including the eastern territories and further in the German area of power and influence in Europe from October 1939 or later until 31.12.1942” add up to 2,419,656 Jews." This clearly means that a year earlier, 2.4 million Jews had gone and been evacuated to other places: France. The East. Theresienstadt. Russian East. So why is Cole kicking up a fuss about 2.4 million Jews in 1943? According to him, these 2.4 million Jews had been moved to other places out of Germany a year prior in 1942. Am I missing something here?

Oh, and let’s not forget that in May of ‘44, Himmler bragged at Sonthofen about how secure the Eastern Front is because the Jewish ghettos of the General Government have been removed from “existence:”

I am convinced that things would look bleak for the front that has been built up to the east of the Government General if we had not resolved the Jewish problem there, if, for example, the ghetto in Lublin, or the massive ghetto in Warsaw, with its 500,000 inhabitants, were still in existence.


Let's have a fuller quote, shall we?

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScr ... eches.html
Speech by Heinrich Himmler to a gathering of German generals at Sonthofen on May 24, 1944

I believe, gentlemen, that you know me well enough to realize that I am not a bloodthirsty man nor a man who takes pleasure or finds sport in the harsher things he must do. On the other hand, I have strong nerves and a great sense of duty - if I do say so myself - and when I recognize the necessity to do something, I will do it unflinchingly. As to the Jewish women and children, I did not believe I had a right to let these children grow up to become avengers who would kill our fathers [sic] and grandchildren. That, I thought, would be cowardly. Thus the problem was solved without half-measures. At this time -- it is one of those things peculiar to this war - we are taking 100,000 male Jews from Hungary to the concentration camps to build underground factories, and will later take another 100,000. Not one of them will ever come within the field of vision of the German people. I am convinced that things would look bleak for the front that has been built up to the east of the Government General if we had not resolved the Jewish problem there, if, for example, the ghetto in Lublin, or the massive ghetto in Warsaw, with its 500,000 inhabitants, were still in existence. It cost us five weeks of street-fighting, using tanks and all sorts of weapons, to clean out the Warsaw ghetto last year. In that walled-in ghetto, we had about 700 bunkers.

Sounds quite vicious actually. But let's once again consult MGK's massive book TECOAR. Pages 574-575.

[149] Terry concludes this section with a long quotation of a Himmler speech “in front of generals at Sonthofen [vor Generalen in Sonthofen]” of 21 June 1944, in which he referred i.a. to the killing of Jewish women and children. He ignores the title of the speech: “The ‘final solution’ and the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto (1944) [recte: 1943] [Die ‘Endlösung’ und der Aufstand im Warschauer Ghetto (1944)].”1189 The whole excerpt refers in fact to the Warsaw ghetto revolt. I do not count this as an omission by Terry, because he has probably never seen the text he quotes (“Bradley F. Smith and Agnes F. Peterson (eds.), Heinrich Himmler. Geheimreden 1933 bis 1945. Frankfurt am Main, 1974, p.203: footnote 328”), and most likely took it instead from the web.1190 This text contains unindicated ommissions, and its translation
swings between approximation and falsification. I give here the most blatant examples. The following passage:1191

“Der Zeitpunkt, zu dem wir das letzte große Ghetto in Warschau – ich nenne Ihnen ruhig die Zahl – mit über 500000 Juden in fünf Wochen Straßenkämpfen ausgeräumt haben im Sommer 1943, war gerade der letzte Zeitpunkt. Die Ghettos waren, so abgeschlossen sie auch gewesen sein mögen, die Zentralen jeder Partisanen – und jeder Bandenbewegung.”
“The time when we cleaned out the last big ghetto in Warsaw – by all means I can give the number – with more than 500,000 Jews in summer 1943 after five weeks of street fighting was also the last time. As isolated as they may have been, the ghettos were the centers of all partisans – and of all bandit movements.”


is rendered like this:

“We cleaned out the last one, the big ghetto in Warsaw, in summer 1943. In Warsaw there were 500,000 Jews. I tell you this number confidentially. It took us five weeks of street fighting. Just the same, I want to answer a little question that surely you must have.” (p. 211)

The dissolution of the ghettos as “centers” of the war against the partisans stands in contrast to the thesis of racial extermination of the Jews inhabiting them, and therefore the pertinent passage has been omitted (although the omission corresponds to twenty lines of text). Further in the text, the sentence

“Wollen wir so unanständig sein, daß wir sagen: nein, nein, dazu sind wir zu schwach, aber unsere Kinder können sich mit ihnen mal abgeben.”
“Do we want to be so indecent as to say: no, no, we are too weak for that, but our children can once deal with them.”


is incorrectly translated in this way:

“Do we want to be so improper that we say, no, no, we’re too weak to kill children. Our children can deal with them.” (p. 211)

And finally “No, we can not take the responsibility for it [Nein, das können wir nicht verantworten]” becomes “No, we cannot shirk our responsibility to kill all the Jews.” (p. 211).

Looks like they were out to attack the Partisans again and it also looks like the mainstream historians are engaging in mistranslations of the original German. So Cole's rhetorical quip means nothing.

If your position is that Himmler moved the Polish Jews CLOSER to the front, from Poland to the Ostland, can you comprehend how stupid that sounds in light of Himmler’s remarks at Sonthofen? Basically, you would have Himmler say, “I strengthened the front by removing the Polish Jews from areas close to the front and putting them in areas even closer to the front. If large Jewish communities still existed in the General Government, it would be a threat to the front. So what a good thing that I put all of those Jews WAY closer to the front!”

C’mon…just use your logic. That’s a damn stupid theory. Himmler is CLEARLY stating that the removal of the Jews from the General Government has made the front more secure. He is patting himself on the back for REMOVING hundreds of thousands of Jews from an area that close to the front. And your position is that he “resettled” them in the Ostland, right at the front? So, Himmler is saying that 500,000 Warsaw Jews were a threat to the front when they were in Warsaw, but not when they’re at the front itself? Seriously?

Please. Stop being stupid. The Jews had not been resettled to the Ostland. It’s as clear as day.

Recall how earlier, I suggested one consult 7.4.2 in Mattogno/Graf/Kues new book? Well let's look at the whole section of 7.4.

[qutoe]7.4. Ostland ................................................................................. 657
7.4.1. Vievis, Vaivara, Salaspils and Maly Trostenets ................ 657
7.4.2. Statements by Kube and Lohse .......................................... 661
7.4.3. The Witnesses Rage and Grünberg .................................... 665
7.4.4. Herman Kruk’s Diary ........................................................ 667
7.4.5. Some Notes on the Ghettos in RK Ostland ........................ 681[/quote]

And, you said this earlier:
"I’ll add that just two months after getting the final Korherr Report, Himmler ordered the Ostland ghettos permanently closed [Werd: June 1943], with any Jews capable of work being sent to camps, and the remainder being “evacuated to the East.” Uh, this is the fucking Ostland. There IS no “east.” This is as far east as Nazi territory went. What more proof is needed that, in this instance, “evacuated to the East” is a euphemism?"


Let's examine what the Ostland ghettos looked like on a map.

"Germany established the Reichskommissariat Ostland (RKO) in 1941 as the civilian occupation regime in the Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania), the northeastern part of Poland and the west part of the Belarusian SSR during World War II." - wikipedia.

Image

And another.

Image

What country sits to the east of Germany? Poland. Next is Russia. But Poland sits below the Baltic Sea. next comes Belarus and then Russia with Ukraine below on this old map.

Image
In other words, the border of the Ostland ghettos was Russia. But wait a minute David. Remember the talk about Jews being deported to Russia as well as Ukraine? that's further east than the Ostland ghettos in occupied Poland. Hell, that section of the Korherr report I quoted before shows many Jews making it to Russia. Himmler in his June 1943 directive wanted all the Jews put into concentration camps for labour. One of them was to be in Riga which is still in the Ostland territories to manufacture things for the Wermacht. The idea was to close the ghettos to clamp down on Partisans, concentrate them in camps for labour, and then at later times, evacuate others to eastern territories.

The Ostland ghettos, like the Reinhardt camps, were part of a deadly enterprise. Korherr gave the recap. 2.4 million Jews were not frolicking freely in the Ostland ghettos or in the Reinhardt Camps.

Yeah because in his report which was dated April 1943, he said that by 1942 a year prior, those 2.4 million had already been put in many other places. Some of which actually included Russia. So why are you playing around with this 2.4 million number like it is still viable, David?

Thousands of Jews did avoid death during the Reinhardt period through labor, but one cannot account for the over 2.4 million departed Jews who were not in camps or ghettos except by admitting that they were departed Jews who were not in camps or ghettos.

If I could make it any more simple, I’d have to use finger puppets.

If Himmler in his June directive is stating that he wants the ghettos closed and those partisans turned into labourers in concentration camps, then why do you say silly things like this above? Himmler just stated most would be put into camps and the rest transited. Read the whole directive. It has parts like this. " I order that all Jews still remaining in ghettos in the Ostland area be collected in concentration camps.2) I prohibit the withdrawal of Jews from concentration camps for [outside] work from August 1, 1943" But earlier you admitted that Himmler wanted to put them in camps.



If I could make it anymore simple...wait, I don't know if I could. If you admit that Korherr states that 2.4 million Jews had been moved to other places by 1942, then why are you making a big deal of 2.4? If you want to argue there was another 2.4 million Jews in the Ostland territories by June 1943 when Himmler issued his order to empty the ghettos of those partisans, then fine. Furnish some documentation. But don't use the Korherr report which claims that 2.4 million Jews had been evacuated to other territories spanning as wide as France and even Russia. That's just silly. You said this. "Himmler ordered the Ostland ghettos permanently closed, with any Jews capable of work being sent to camps." So if there was supposed to be 2.4 million Jews in the Ostland ghettos, and many of them went to work in camps, that would be less than 2.4 million Jews that you are getting concerned over wondering where they went. Simple math, right? Not for you apparently.

Continuing on, this is what sticks in your craw. .4) Inmates of the Jewish ghettos who are not required are to be evacuated to the East. You say this is impossible if the ghettos were being closed. In other words, you are saying Himmler is either a complete moron or an evil genius who likes to use euphemisms. However, if we look at the Korherr report you are so fond of from April 1943 which YOU CLAIM states that up to the date it was issued, 2.4 million jews had been evacuated, some of which went to Russia, then it means that they pushed Jews into Russia before Himmler's June 1943 directive. Meaning they had succeeded in doing it before. meaning, that is probably what Himmler had in mind in point number 4. Nothing sinister here.

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Werd » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:40 pm)

In his reply to my first statement on Treblinka, Eric Hunt pointed out that the Minsk ghetto isn’t mentioned in the Korherr Report. He’s not helping his case. You know what else isn’t mentioned by name in the report? Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec. The purpose of the report was to inform Himmler of how many Jews had died, how many were alive, and where the living were held. There was no need to list by name the one-way death stops. That info was covered in the section of “departed” evacuees.


Let's see the context in which Eric Hunt was talking about Minsk in the first place.

Does Cole deny Jews were sent East through the General Government or Warthegua? Where were the Jews we know where sent East to places such as Minsk, Pinsk, Baltic countries etc., transited through if not through these districts, David?

The term used by Korherr, translated as “dragged through” or “sifted through” was used even after the war.

The below document is certifying in 1946 that Jew Heinz Rosenberg was sent from Hamburg to Minsk, then back, according to him, through Treblinka (but might be Trawniki) He had to have gone through the General Government or Warthegau districts in order to get from Hamburg to Minsk.

http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/wp-conte ... t-hoax.png

Similar wording “dragged through” is used. Heinz Rosenberg “survived” being transited East and back again and was not “gassed.”

Exterminationists want you to believe this “dragged through” term in this secret report to Himmler secretly means “exterminated”.

And another clip.
In the following sections VI and VII, Korherr writes nothing specific about the camps or ghettos East of current Lviv or even Bialystok and explains multiple times the difficulty and in fact impossibility of counting those in the occupied Eastern Territories.

The newly acquired Eastern Territories (except for Danzig) are not included in the statistics. These figures cannot be calculated.

In addition, how it was impossible to calculate figures of Soviet Russian Jews in this area -

Moreover, it was not possible to count all of the deaths of the Soviet Russian Jews in the occupied Eastern Territories while those in the remaining European part of Russia and on the front have not been included at all.

And another about the difficulties of compiling statistics in the Eastern territories

We have faced almost insurmountable difficulties in the compilation of accurate statistics regarding the Jewish population and its movements in the Eastern Territories since the beginning of the Second World War, which set uncontrollable masses of Jews in movement.

And another

The figure for emigration and excess mortality (the turmoil of war!) in the Eastern Territories and the General Government cannot be checked.

Korherr’s information is vague and incomplete concerning the Eastern territories. He writes nothing to do with where these Jews went “following processing” because according to him, it wasn’t possible to! He writes nothing in sections VI or VII about the large Minsk, Bialystok, Vilna ghettos. We know there were tens of thousands of Jews at these camps. Just because he doesn’t write about them, doesn’t mean the Jews didn’t exist, or disappeared into gas chambers disguised as shower rooms like Cole wants to claim.

In section VI, Korherr writes about “the Jews in the Ghettos”. However, this is clearly incomplete, as no ghettos further East than Lviv are mentioned at all. Bialystok, Baltic states, too, no mentions of the known ghettos in the area the Jews transited East were likely to wind up.

Does this mean the Minsk ghetto didn’t exist or have thousands of Jews transited to it because Korherr didn’t specifically write about it in section VI? According to Cole this does. Because section VI and VII, according to Cole, was supposed to mention where all the Jews transited through the General Government and Warthegau went, and doesn’t mention much information at all about the Eastern territories, Cole wants to jump to the conclusion that they were all exterminated in gas chambers.

So Cole, this doesn’t mean the Jews transited through the General Gouvernment and Warthegau were subsequently NOT “inmates of ghettoes and concentration camps”, but gassed, they just weren’t all currently inmates of the partial list of ghettos and concentration camps mentioned in section VI and VII of Korherr which he was transitioning to at the end of section V .


Eric has a point here in this talk about Minsk. David mentions it briefly and then provides us with a quote from someone.

To show that my views regarding the Ostland ghettos are not the product of my Joo-ishness or alcoholism, I’ll quote someone else on the topic:

Meanwhile, from mid-November 1941 onward, the Reichsbahn sent trainloads of Jews – rounded up in Vienna, Brünn (Brno), Bremen, and Berlin – direct to Minsk, while others went to Warsaw, Kovno, and Riga. At Kovno and Riga the Jews were shot soon after. At Minsk the German Jews survived at first, but not for long: the Nazis liquidated 35,000 of the native Russian Jews at Minsk to make space for the newcomers, who were housed in a separate ghetto, the ‘Hamburg Ghetto’ – indicating the city that the first consignment had come from….Wilhelm Kube, Rosenberg’s general commissioner of White Ruthenia, would record on July 31, 1942, that ten thousand had been liquidated since the twenty-eighth, ‘of which 6,500 were Russian Jews, old folk, women and children, with the rest unemployable Jews largely sent to Minsk from Vienna, Brünn, Bremen, and Berlin in November last year on the Führer’s order.’

You know who wrote those words? David Irving, in “Hitler’s War.” And yet he was still welcomed at IHR conferences and Zundel rallies all throughout the ‘90s. He wasn’t called a sellout or a traitor. Oh sure, Faurisson attacked him. But Faurisson is a sick man. The more important point is, the revisionist audience back in my day was somewhat different from the audience of today. There was no insistence on Faurissonian “purity.” A man like Irving could be celebrated for his skill, even if some in the crowd disagreed with his conclusions.

Not anymore. The Faurissons and Grafs and Mattognos have taken over, and a self-described “delusional” like Hunt has become a respected authority.

Fredrick Toben, on some white supremacy podcast (I think it’s called the Nutty Nordic Chuckle-Time White Purity Partycast, or something like that) recently lamented the “new” positions taken by me, Weber, and Irving. “New?” I’ve been saying similar things since the ‘90s, and Irving long before. We didn’t change; revisionism did. It’s a shame. For some of us, it used to be about the challenge of doing research and filling in the gaps in knowledge that others had ignored. It was about eschewing identity politics and politics in general, in favor of the pursuit of facts, wherever they might lead.


So Irving is also talking about Kube who on July 31 1942 claimed someJews had been liquidated...including women and children. And that was included in the quoted extract from Mattogno/Graf/Kues on page 345-6 On page 346, they said: "The massacres, even in their brutality, were therefore motivated by the anti-partisan war and not by an extermination order of Jews for being Jews." Yes, that was a huge part of it, but since MGK didn't even eliminate the part about children being liquidated, I have to wonder if they have an excuse for that, and if that would not indeed be a legitimate nazi atrocity? What is the point of killing children? Seriously? I thought only Israeli in Gaza were supposed to be that twisted.

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Atigun » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:59 pm)

So, Cole/Stein has a piece of paper to wave in the air as he screeches, "See, see, it's right there. It says right there that forty 'leven jillion Jews were killed right there in them there 'stermination camps and I got this here piece of paper to prove it." Tell ya' what, Davey boy, go rent a GPR, hire somebody who knows what he's doing to run it and once you've located those mass graves touted by Wiernik, et al., take a few core samples showing a three or four meter thick layer of ash and pulverized carbonized bones. Yeah, you do that first, Davey boy, then you can start waving your piece of paper in the air and saying, "See, this piece of paper says how many people it took to build that three or four meters of ash and carbonized bone."

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Werd » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:20 pm)

Well it may be a little harder now to do real research given how the Colls archaeology team screwed up that site so much. One example, again from Eric Hunt. Another point David Cole refused to dignify in his latest response to Eric.


Contrary to Cole repeating the meme of the Nazis destroying all evidence, a tremendous amount of physical evidence still exists at Treblinka 2, below the current ground level. Or LACK of evidence for massive ground disturbances signifying locations where massive mass graves for 900,000 Jews once existed.

Cole himself watched as the archaeologist dug up an alleged gas chamber. Well, there’s one place to start looking for more physical evidence, David.

However, the archaeologists covered up the alleged “gas chamber” location.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTKyCM9nc44

One can see from approximately 0:58 – 1:30 the location of the alleged “gas chambers” Caroline Sturdy Colls’ team covered up.

Recent likely dig locations close to or where Colls’s team found nothing but fossilized shark teeth appear to have been covered with lime.

Image

Of course we are told the Nazis used “quicklime” to cover up evidence at Treblinka, yet why is the “truthseeking” archaeological team doing the same thing?

Image

This is a literal “cover up.” Covering up the location of “gas chambers” with dirt, and covering nearby evidence sites with lime? Isn’t that something “the Nazis” would do?

So an incredible amount of physical evidence still exists, yet is covered up by Zionist archaeologists and an investigation-impeding Jewish Chief Rabbi of Poland. Why not expose the alleged “gas chamber” site just like the ruins from Treblinka 1 for all to see?

How is this honest science? How can David Cole defend/ignore this crap? Colls is a liar and a fraud. Who else but a liar and a fraud who either have herself or people on her team pour quicklime into the ground to ruin the ground?

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Dresden » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:27 pm)

Werd said:

"This clearly means that a year earlier, 2.4 million Jews had gone and been evacuated to other places: France. The East. Theresienstadt. Russian East. So why is Cole kicking up a fuss about 2.4 million Jews in 1943? According to him, these 2.4 million Jews had been moved to other places out of Germany a year prior in 1942. Am I missing something here?"

Yes, you are missing something, Werd.....Vodka!

"If I could make it anymore simple...wait, I don't know if I could"

Try finger puppets.

Werd, I hope you know that your last few posts have probably sabotaged any hope of getting David Cole to debate.

How could he show his face after that?

Way to go, dude!
"I am willing to go to prison for the sake of the truth and the German nation. ... You are determined to destroy my convictions by imprisoning me, but it is beyond your power to do so." - Sylvia Stolz

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Werd » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:36 pm)

Glad you liked my response. Those three sentences you quoted come from this little paragraph:

"So Korherr's report dates from April 1943 two months before Himmler closes all the Ostland ghettos, says David Cole. Cole also says "The Korherr Report...states that “evacuations” from “the territory of the Reich and including the eastern territories and further in the German area of power and influence in Europe from October 1939 or later until 31.12.1942” add up to 2,419,656 Jews." This clearly means that a year earlier, 2.4 million Jews had gone and been evacuated to other places: France. The East. Theresienstadt. Russian East. So why is Cole kicking up a fuss about 2.4 million Jews in 1943? According to him, these 2.4 million Jews had been moved to other places out of Germany a year prior in 1942. Am I missing something here?"


I was just using Cole's own words against him. That's how you win in philosophy. As I said before, if he wants to claim another 2.4 million jews were in the Ostland territories on the eve of Himmler's directive of June 1943 to clear those ghettos, he will have to do better than a April 1943 Korherr document stating that 2.4 million already were evacuated to other territories a year earlier in 1942. Common sense. Besides if Himmler decided to take the partisans out of those ghettos and put them in concentration camps, that obviously would drop the number down from 2.4million Jews hanging in limbo waiting for someone to figure out what happened to them decades later. Again, common sense.

When going through all of that, I seriously thought I was responding to one of the clowns from holocaust controversies. :?

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby blake121666 » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:35 pm)

I'm no expert on the train networks involved or anything; but I look at this map of German occupied Europe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_under_Nazi_domination.png

And see that there is, in fact, German occupied territory east of the Ostland. How correct is Cole when he claims there isn't?

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby Werd » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:45 pm)

I'm no expert on the train networks involved or anything;

See Treblinka and railway gauge. One article is presented after another about Jews actually making it to the Soviet Union, which would logically mean they were taken past the Ostland territories. Another error for David Cole.
Last edited by Werd on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Eric Hunt's response to David Cole / Treblinka

Postby blake121666 » 2 years 11 months ago (Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:48 pm)

I actually wasn't being sarcastic. Does anyone have in-depth knowledge of the train network, the times Germans occupied certain areas, ... etc? For all I know, Cole could be correct in the context he meant when he wrote that.


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