two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9088
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:47 pm)

CCS asks:
Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:Hi Thames Darwin,

You quoted Hannover's post extensively, but why no response to where he said:
And BTW, since the locations of these alleged "mass shootings" are known, please show us verifiable excavations, show us the verified human remains of Jews.


Thames, can you show anything on this? Anything that's comparable to the documentation of Katyn? Carlo Mattogno discusses how extensive the documentation of Katyn was:
When the Germans discovered the graves of the victims of the Soviet NKVD
at Katyn and Vinnytsya, they did not simply drill holes in the ground with a
manual drill – they opened the graves, exhumed the corpses, did autopsies,
and tried to identify them.
On April 13, 1943, on the basis of information from the local population,
the Germans discovered seven graves containing a total of 4,143 corpses of
Polish soldiers in the forest of Katyn. Between April and June, the bodies
were examined by a commission consisting of physicians from twelve European
countries, by a commission of the Polish Red Cross, and by U.S., British,
and Canadian officers who were prisoners of war. The Germans then published
an official report with the forensic medical findings of the investigation,
containing 80 photographs and the names of the victims identified.234
The Vinnytsya massacres were discovered by the Germans in the beginning
of June 1943. Ninety-seven mass graves were found in three different locations,
containing the bodies of 9,432 Ukrainians murdered by the Soviets.
Between June 24 and August 25 no fewer than 14 commissions, 6 of them
composed of foreigners, visited the mass graves. Again, the Germans collected
the results of their findings in a substantial publication: 282 pages with
151 photographs, with forensic medical reports, and victims’ names.235
Carlo Mattogno, Belzec, page 77


Can you show anything like this?


Thames Darwin, only quotes a small section:
Thames Darwin wrote:
Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:Thames, can you show anything on this? Anything that's comparable to the documentation of Katyn?


As I've already said, I refuse to get into lengthy debates here. I'll debate virtually anywhere else, but not here.

How absurd, Thames Darwin IS engaged in "lengthy debates", this thread proves it.

More funny stuff, or should we more appropriately use the 'd' word .... dodging.

- Hannover


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

avatar
Thames Darwin
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Thames Darwin » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:12 pm)

There is nothing in the decodes which cannot easily be explained in the context of actions against partisan terrorists. Jews got killed because, as shown, they were involved with the partisan terrorists.


You are imposing that "context" on the material, not to mention your own clear prejudices regarding Judeobolschewismus.

Your arguments are tortured at best. The onus is upon the accuser, you, to produce proof that these Jews were killed outside this context.


Au contraire. The onus is upon you, when looking at a document that lists partisans and Jews separately, to explain how they are the same. You have not met that burden: on this, the Bunny and I agree.

Actually, to prove that, you still have to explain why Jews and partisans are listed separately or to assert with any reliability whatsoever that the vast majority of partisans were Jewish.

Again, Jews as a category were mentioned with other partisans, these partisans were also categorized. I suggest you read the decodes.


I did. I read them in German, which you are apparently unable to do, given your belief that Verschiedene was a KZ name.

Also, please re-read this thread, I never said "the vast majority of partisans were Jewish."
I said "many", which is a fact. No false strawman arguments.


In a page of decodes, when the overwhelming majority of people mentioned as killed are labeled "Jews," the presumption made (by you, not me) is that, if these Jews are partisans, then the overwhelming majority of partisans must have been Jewish. Q.e.d.

You ignored this:
And BTW, since the locations of these alleged "mass shootings" are known, please show us verifiable excavations, show us the verified human remains of Jews.

We know why


Yes, I believe I explained why. We can discuss that at Unz if you like. And if this post doesn't see the light of day, then "we know why." :roll:

avatar
Thames Darwin
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Thames Darwin » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:14 pm)

I can prove -- easily, I might add -- several dozen mass graves in Ukraine alone, not to mention others in Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus, and even Poland. But I'm not going to jump through the hoops imposed on me here to do so. I will do so anywhere but here. Meet me at Unz if you're so confident in your position.

And if this post doesn't get approved, then we know why, don't we?

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9088
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:17 pm)

Thames Darwin speaks:
You are imposing that "context" on the material, not to mention your own clear prejudices regarding Judeobolschewismus.

I'm imposing facts, logic, referring to what's actually in the decodes, and the fact the Daluege said nothing of Jews.

You, on the other hand cannot produce the proof for your 'holocaust' fantasy. You are just wishing for dead Jews, which in itself is rather creepy.

Au contraire. The onus is upon you, when looking at a document that lists partisans and Jews separately, to explain how they are the same. You have not met that burden: on this, the Bunny and I agree.

What "burden"? That is upon you and your "Bunny" [sucking up to him noted] who are making the accusations, not me. The onus is upon the accuser, a basic rule of jurisprudence.

In a page of decodes, when the overwhelming majority of people mentioned as killed are labeled "Jews," the presumption made (by you, not me) is that, if these Jews are partisans, then the overwhelming majority of partisans must have been Jewish. Q.e.d.

Right, in a single page, about an illegal group were Jews were very active participants, for which no human remains can be shown. Dig deeper.

I can prove -- easily, I might add -- several dozen mass graves in Ukraine alone, not to mention others in Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus, and even Poland. But I'm not going to jump through the hoops imposed on me here to do so. I will do so anywhere but here.

No you can't or you would have done so already. It's all bluff.
Show us actual verified excavations, show us the actual & verified remains of Jews.

I'm calling your bluff, just post what I ask anywhere, you don't need me. I'll find out and we'll see what you got.
This could be good.

You say you won't debate here, but then you debate here. You appear conflicted.

Cheers, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1989
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:27 am)

Given the random nature of this thread, where we started with Harvey Weinstein threatening to kick my ass because I might have some legitimate concerns about Israel, some jews and of course the holocaust, and Mr Darwin who finds it so intimidating to be here and debate the subject because he would be required to evidence his claims and not embellish them with any kind of abuse and threats, I thought I would look at one claim of the mass murders that supposedly happened in the eastern sections controlled by the dreaded Einsatzgruppen.

This is from a fine web site called http://grossmanproject.net/the_holocaust.htm

I searched for details of the Slavuta massacre but found this in the results.

Ginsburg made a trip to Sudilkov in July, 2001 and made a terrifying discovery:


He travelled around to find evidence of lost jews from the town and proof of mass murder and in fact found a mass grave.

We entered into a small courtyard where we could see a small memorial with a Yiddish plaque.


Germans and Ukrainians took the Jews of Sudilkov—all of whom were too old or unable to walk to the ghetto in nearby Shepetovka—to this courtyard. There they dug a pit into the earth and buried Sudilkov’s Jews alive. The Ukrainian woman told us that when the pit was covered, the earth continued to move for days because beneath the ground people still struggled for life.


The grave is marked by a stone with a photo of one jewish person. They don't know why this one person is on the stone. Could it be that he is the sole person in the grave? Could it be that this 'mass grave' in a small courtyard couldn't contain very many bodies at all? So what does the word 'mass' actually mean.

How would the people buried alive in the soil been able to move for days yet be unable to dig themselves out or be dug out by those who apparently wathced the event?

Why is it that the holocaustians show the same old pictures for mass executions yet claim they are for each and every one of the executions and then not one picture is shown for all these bodies dug up and cremated afterwards?

I'm confused.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1989
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:42 am)

Thames Darwin wrote:I can prove -- easily, I might add -- several dozen mass graves in Ukraine alone, not to mention others in Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus, and even Poland. But I'm not going to jump through the hoops imposed on me here to do so. I will do so anywhere but here. Meet me at Unz if you're so confident in your position.

And if this post doesn't get approved, then we know why, don't we?


What hoops? Proof, straight talking, evidence??

Meet us here, why not. What is it that you can present at Unz, whatever that is, that you cannot or will not present here? I am confused.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

User avatar
TheBlackRabbitofInlé
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 829
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:38 am

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:49 am)

Daluege's original message of September 13, 1941:

Höherer SS und Pol.führer Russland Nord, Mitte, Süd.

Die Gefahr der Entschlüsselung von Funksprüchen ist gross. Es sind daher nur solche Angelegenheiten durch Funk durchzugeben, die als offen XXN.DDXX, vertraulich oder geheim hehandelt werden, nicht aber solche Mitteilungen, die als geheime Reichssache besonderer Geheimhaltung bedürfen. Hierzu gehören auch genauere Zahlenangaben über Exekutionen (Diese Vorgänge sind durch Kurier zu befordern.)

Chef Orpo.


Bletchley Park's translation in the summary cited by Irving:

The danger of decipherment by the enemy of wireless messages is great. For this reason only such matters are to be transmitted by wireless as can be considered open (corrupt groups), confidential or secret, but not information which as containing State Secrets, calls for especially secret treatment. Into this category falls exact figures of executions (these are to be sent by courier post)

(Signed) Chief Ordnungspolice.


No explicit mention of Juden (which really means 'non-Jewish partisans' according to Hannover), but no explicit mention either of any other group the Nazis were targeting: commissars and partisans.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9088
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:03 pm)

Rabbit said:
No explicit mention of Juden (which really means 'non-Jewish partisans' according to Hannover), but no explicit mention either of any other group the Nazis were targeting: commissars and partisans.

Forget your "no explicit mention of Juden", no mention of Jews period.
I was right.

To support their claims some must think that Daluege's subordinates received an unsaid message via osmosis or telepathy.

And do not put words in my mouth, Rabbit. I never said that it "means non-Jewish partisans", you did.
No lies, no strawmen.

Daluege:
The danger of decipherment by the enemy of wireless messages is great. For this reason only such matters are to be transmitted by wireless as can be considered open (corrupt groups), confidential or secret, but not information which as containing State Secrets, calls for especially secret treatment. Into this category falls exact figures of executions (these are to be sent by courier post)

(Signed) Chief Ordnungspolice.

And I'm glad to see what Daluege specifically said, which is nothing about Jews and only about the numbers of legal executions of illegal partisans.

And seeing the original document would be better.

Of course, seeing the alleged mass graves would be better yet.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Moderator
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1438
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:23 am

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Moderator » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:41 pm)

Per my note in the OP of this thread, transfer of posts to this thread has been completed.
M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

avatar
blacksmith
Member
Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby blacksmith » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:37 pm)

These decodes also show that the German were not trying to hide any and all kinds of punishment meted out to partisans, including executions. Such executions should be viewed from the occupying forces point of view. As far as they were concerned, such "patriots" were criminals in their eyes and were dealt with accordingly.

Many of such partisans were dressed in German uniforms and when caught they were instantly executed. Compare to what happened to the Germans in the Battle of the Bulge when caught in American uniforms, even to those who managed to take off their American uniforms and were caught in German uniforms.

Anyway, what I cant understand why we are still running after former SS soldiers, when they did not commit and more or any less atrocities the allied soldiers, either from the Western or the Eastern Allies. In fact, the Germans and their allies punished their soldiers quite severely if they were caught raping local women, many were even executed. I just want to draw your attention to the travelling SS judge Konrad Morgan whose function was make sure that there was justice carried out in these camps. If my memory serves me right, two camp commandants were actually executed. How come we don't hear much about that?

It is high time we all agreed that war is ugly and that "stuff" happens. Irrespective of the country from where they come, a man or possibly even a woman, believe that they have special rights in their behaviour vis-a-vis the civilian population and it takes really strong officers to keep their men in check. So, let's finish the Second World War and start concentrating on what is happening today. There are more than enough war criminals running around lose among us.

The Best we can establish is that there were KZs and that life there was not a bed of roses. All the facts, however, indicate that the Germans did everything they could to keep the inmates in a healthy conditions. They made sure that conditions were as hygienic as was possible under the most miserable conditions and there was never any intent to exterminate anyone, no matter what the so-called witnesses have told. There is enough evidence to prove that the stories they are spreading in our schools were born in the sick minds of the Jews who are filled with hate against all Germans. Jews are congenital liars and that should be taken into account when listening to their outlandish stories.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9088
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:35 pm)

Good points blacksmith.
A typical mistake is to think because Jews were listed in a few police reports as being executed they were somehow executed just because they were Jews, when in fact they were very active in illegal partisan / terrorist groups.

People often ignore the fact that besides Jews being listed we see other groups listed in police reports as well, such as:
Russian women, Russian men, Bolshevists, sometimes they were lumped into general categories like partisanen, freischaerler, plunderers, etc.
These reports had no uniform style of format, hence they varied.

Some question the accuracies of these reports as those doing the decoding varied and hence there agendas and integrity may have varied also, recall the obviously bogus 'recorded conversations'. There is also a suggestion that some German commanders in the field exaggerated the numbers for purposes of self interest.

Also note the utter lack of any verifiable excavations where verified remains could be actually shown in support of these false claims, that could solve entire matter. But zippo, nada.
If they can find the Czar's family long after the fact, they could certainly excavate all the alleged Jews taht were supposedly shot in centralized, supposedly known locations.

And getting back to Rabbit's erroneous point concerning Dualege never mentioning Jews in his message to subordinates, Rabbit says:
No explicit mention of Juden (which really means 'non-Jewish partisans' according to Hannover), but no explicit mention either of any other group the Nazis were targeting: commissars and partisans.

I never said that and I have shown him to be wrong, others were mentioned in police reports. And what I said early in this thread is:
These are non-uniformed 'partisans', as stated in the decode text, "partisanen" (aka: saboteurs, terrorists), of which many Jews belonged, who were legally executed upon capture per Geneva Convention. This was a legit and common war time action, all such saboteurs / terrorists were executed by all sides.

Others that were executed were often listed too. Sometimes they all got lumped in a general category. There was no consistency as I stated.

Thanks, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Mulegino1
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 261
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:15 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Mulegino1 » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:22 pm)

Hektor wrote:The decodes in British hands are of course 100% reliable evidence for anything. But let's leave the technicalities aside for arguments sake.

The German armed forces viewed the Jews as carriers of Bolshevism So did the local population in the Baltic states, Ukraine, etc. And it is plausible to some extent:
https://archive.org/details/BarnesRevie ... UdoWalendy

There were also Massacres in the Baltics, Belarus, Ukraine, etc. just before the Germans liberated those areas. Again Jews were suspected for involvement. The locals and the Germans must have been very upset about it.
https://archive.org/details/WehrmachtWi ... rInLemberg

That again made Jews the logical candidates for hostages in reprisals. But then didn't we discuss this on the forum several times? I'm certain there are numerous other threads.


Good point.

Another interesting question I have is: weren't a huge number of Jews evacuated to the east before Operation Barbarossa even began?

In that case, what Jews would the Soviets leave behind? Obviously not Jews whose loyalty to the Soviet state was in doubt.

Since Western Ukraine was envisioned (prior to June 22, 1941 that is) as an area to the rear of the front lines once the great invasion of Europe (preempted by Barbarossa) was begun, wouldn't most Jews left behind in the rear areas be either political commissars or NKVD operatives? This would make perfect sense in a politically volatile area such as Ukraine with an active Ukrainian nationalist movement.

And no doubt many of these Jews who were shot were informed upon by the local population as political operatives of the Soviet state.

avatar
Thames Darwin
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Thames Darwin » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:43 pm)

Hannover wrote:Sometimes they all got lumped in a general category. There was no consistency as I stated.


Right! And sometimes, they were listed as Jewish men, Jewish women, and Jewish children:

Image

Of course, Jewish children are notorious partisans.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9088
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:40 pm)

And what is that supposed to be, Thames Darwin, who said he wouldn't debate here? 8)

- It's nothing more than something anybody could have typed?
- A list of supposed Jews, so what?
- Sheet 6 of what?
- Why only sheet 6?
- No cover / title page.
- No official markings.
- No signature.
- A questionable Bundesarchiv Bild no. added to the side, by whom?
- No Bundesarchiv stamps.
- It's nothing more than a photograph (bild) of a bogus document typed by anyone to mean whatever they wanted, it would be laughed out of court.
- A photo of a bogus document is still a bogus document
- Was it ever used in any trial?
- If so, what trial?

Another laughable bogus 'holocaust document' on display.

- Hannover

Image
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Dresden
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1228
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:38 pm

Re: two British decodes of Police Batallion 320

Postby Dresden » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:53 pm)

Thames Darwin said:

"Of course, Jewish children are notorious partisans"

People under 18 years of age were considered children then as now.

There were thousands of partisans between the ages of 13-17.

Does it give the ages of the "children" in your "document"?

Thank you!
"I am willing to go to prison for the sake of the truth and the German nation. ... You are determined to destroy my convictions by imprisoning me, but it is beyond your power to do so." - Sylvia Stolz


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 8 guests