"Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

All aspects including lead-in to hostilities and results.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9090
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

Postby Hannover » 1 year 3 months ago (Tue May 10, 2016 6:16 pm)

I see that onethruth's Amateur Night continues, this isn't even a fair fight.

However, here we go, and this is just a brief sample.

Retired FBI Admits Pearl Harbor Cover Up


and:
Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor Paperback – May 8, 2001
by Robert Stinnett
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/074320 ... ibert0f-20

and:
Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/h ... dr-was-not

and:
Image

and:
Image
http://www.amazon.com/Cover-Up-Politics ... 0870004239

and:
Pearl Harbor was an inside Job FDR not only knew about the attack in advance, but that his administration did everything it could to cause a Japanese attack on America
https://truth11.com/2010/10/17/pearl-ha ... on-americ/

This is too easy.

onetruth needs to get out more often.

- Hannover

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
Arthur Schopenhauer

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

avatar
blacksmith
Member
Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

Postby blacksmith » 1 year 3 months ago (Wed May 11, 2016 8:25 am)

Hey Onetruth, who are you??? You sound like all you try to do is provoke people, because nobody could be this stupid. If you don't believe Hannover at least have the courtesy and google the subject before you make your outrageous statements.

avatar
Mortimer
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:27 am

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

Postby Mortimer » 1 year 3 months ago (Wed May 11, 2016 1:45 pm)

onetruth wrote:
Hannover wrote:
- Pearl Harbor was not a surprise attack to the US leadership. It was only a surprise to the US troops who were allowed to be killed.
By way of intercepted Japanese messages the US knew weeks ahead of time that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, this fact is now in the mainstream.


This is NOT mainstream fact as you claim, What exactly do you mean it is mainstream ? Is it taught in schools and universities as a history fact?

You are here by challenged to prove that your lame conspiracy theory about Americans allowing most of their fleet in the pacific to be destroyed as well as 2500 to die is considered " mainstream "

~

Roosevelt was so determined to enter the war that he had a plan drawn up to get involved even if Pearl Harbor was not attacked. It was called "Rainbow 5" - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2008/06/16 ... n-exposed/
FDR was the most deceitful president in US history - viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7486

avatar
blacksmith
Member
Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

Postby blacksmith » 1 year 3 months ago (Wed May 11, 2016 5:26 pm)

It is the first time I hear about Rainbow 5, actually all US presidents started war based on a false flag operation. Just shows you how much we do not really know. The fact is The Brits wanted to destroy Germany, Hitler or no Hitler. churchill admitted that much. And while we're at this subject, none of the big names from the Allied side ever mentioned anything about the Holocaust or even suggested that the war was fought in order to save the jews - not Churchill, not Attlee, not Eisenhower.

avatar
flimflam
Member
Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:19 am

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

Postby flimflam » 9 months 3 weeks ago (Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:25 pm)

A few more minutes googling turned up this rebuttal to Stinnett's book ... which apparently is supposedly heavily documented by documents obtained from the FOIA, but ... it ain't so according to this rebuttal .... which rings true to me ....

http://www.artbarninc.org/REY/Stinnett.pdf

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2731
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on

Postby Hektor » 9 months 3 weeks ago (Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:59 pm)

onetruth wrote:
blacksmith wrote:Hi Barrington James,
Actually the German soldiers knew very well why they died and the Hitler government, including his generals tried to avoid war. The German general staff was particularly opposed to any kind of war even against the Czechs but the war was forced on Germany (read Hoggan's the The Enforced War). The BS that is taught in the history lesson in our schools is to perpetuate the concept that it was Germany's, fault that it came to war.


mmm it must have something to do with to fact that Germany invaded :

-Poland (1939)
-Denmark (1940)
-Norway (1940)
-The Netherlands (1940)
-Belgium (1940)
-Luxembourg (1940)
-Yugoslavia (1941)
-Greece (1941)
-The Soviet Union (1941)
-Italy (1943)
-Hungary (1944)

All this according to you indicates that the Nazi leadership desired peace.
~

It indicates that the National Socialists (that's how people with a serious interest in History do call them) didn't take nonsense from coercive connivers. The shear fact that you mention it the way you did indicates that you either are absolutely unreflective about this part of history or willfully malicious trying to post a hit an run and expect this to stick, while it's not convincing to a knowledgeable person.

But lets get through your list quickly:
-Poland-
So why did the Wehrmacht invade Poland? Guess you forgot about that part. What do we have. Breach of non-Aggression pact by Poland by making an alliance with Britain against Germany, persecuting ethnic Germans, attacking German planes, cross border incidents, etc. etc. All while their army was already fully mobilized against Germany. The British were informed about what was happening there and asked to mediate, which they did in a way making certain that nothing would come from it. Tells me the outcome was actually desired. So Britain and France declared war on Germany and with that their empires as well.

-Scandinavia-
Invasion of Norway (and Sweden) was planned and immanent by Britain, cutting Germany off their iron ore supply. Well, that didn't work, since they saw that coming and moved quicker. Behavior of Norwegian government indicated that they were neither able nor really interested in upholding Neutrality, which would have placed them in the Allied camp and made them game anyway.

-Benelux-
Pretended to be neutral, but had frequent staff conversations with Britain and France. You can read that up in the British archival records. Late April-early May action by Dutch government, shifting defenses, arrests being made indicated that march through by Allied troops was immanent, which they already did perform in terms of their air space. German paratroopers fought against French armored troops in Holland. So essentially in the Allied camp, hence game for the Axis.

-Yugoslavia / Greece-
Was first Axis-friendly, but had a coup, which indicated switch of sides (Apparently the Soviet Union was also involved, breaching non-Aggression pact). Greece had some conflict with Italy, but after British troops landed switch was made in the Allied camp, hence game again.

-The Soviet Union-
Breached the non-Aggression Pact as mentioned, but also by invading Lithuania (Many people think that was due to Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, but it wasn't - not at all). Policy against neighbors indicated propensity to aggression. Diplomatic demands indicated belligerent designs and so did the march up of the Red Army against the Soviet Unions western border. This threatened especially Romania (and Hungary), where Germany's oil supply came from. So essentially this was a preventive war to get a vital threat against Germany (and Europe) off the back.

-Italy-
While being an ally and at a difficult stage of WW2, Italy declared war against Germany. This makes it especially heinous and stupid to mention it as "indicator that Germany was not peaceful".

-Hungary-
Was being invaded by the Red Army. Should they've just given that up?

All this one can learn from speeches, primary documents and other sources. An objective evaluation clearly indicates reasoning and causality. And this can only lead to the conclusion that the war was indeed forced upon Germany, was avoidable and actually extended by the Allies by the demand for "unconditional surrender" - Something the Germans made a very bad experience with during WW1.

avatar
onetruth
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:53 am

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

Postby onetruth » 9 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:37 am)

flimflam wrote:A few more minutes googling turned up this rebuttal to Stinnett's book ... which apparently is supposedly heavily documented by documents obtained from the FOIA, but ... it ain't so according to this rebuttal .... which rings true to me ....

http://www.artbarninc.org/REY/Stinnett.pdf


Indeed there is nothing in the Rainbow 5 that suggests Americans knew in advance about peal Harbour.
Basicly Rainbow 5 is a plan from the 1920-1930 which deals strategy of all war scenarios US might find themselves in including most countries including UK and Canada ...

Yet some here seemed to think it is enough to mention Rainbow 5 as if this alone prove something. No it proves nothing.

If some wish to argue that US knew of pearl Harbour in advance kindly prove it. So far i have seen no such evidence presented.

~

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2731
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

Postby Hektor » 9 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:17 pm)

flimflam wrote:A few more minutes googling turned up this rebuttal to Stinnett's book ... which apparently is supposedly heavily documented by documents obtained from the FOIA, but ... it ain't so according to this rebuttal .... which rings true to me ....

http://www.artbarninc.org/REY/Stinnett.pdf
That's claim against claim. I haven't seen the book yet. But then I guess this isn't a Pacific Theater threat neither. So back to the Atlantic it is. Concerning that theater Churchill and Roosevelt discussed the following BEFORE Pearl Harbour:

The President’s orders to these escorts were to attack any U-boat which showed itself, even if it were 200 or 300 miles away from the convoy. Admiral Stark intended to carry out this order literally, and any Commander who sank a U-boat would have his action approved. Everything was to be done to force an "incident". This would put the enemy in the dilemma that either he could attack the convoys, in which case his U-boats would be attacked by American Naval forces, or, if he refrained from attack, this would be tantamount to giving us victory in the Battle of the Atlantic. It might suit us, in six or eight weeks* time, to provoke Hitler by taunting him with this difficult choice.

The Prime Minister said that he had thought it right to give the President a warning. He had told him that he would not answer for the consequences if Russia was compelled to sue for peace and, say, by the Spring off next year, hope died in Britain that the United States were coming into the war. The President had taken this very well, and had made it clear that he would look for an "incident" which would justify him in opening hostilities.

https://archive.org/details/Discussions ... ithGermany
I guess that solves the riddle of who was pushing for war and who was just responding to provocation and intrigue, at least for the Atlantic Theater.

As for the Pacific Theater - one should analyse the archive and records from that time as well. Just to get a feeling for the full series of events. But that's mind mapping for another thread.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9090
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

Postby Hannover » 9 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:47 pm)

onetruth wrote:
flimflam wrote:A few more minutes googling turned up this rebuttal to Stinnett's book ... which apparently is supposedly heavily documented by documents obtained from the FOIA, but ... it ain't so according to this rebuttal .... which rings true to me ....

http://www.artbarninc.org/REY/Stinnett.pdf


Indeed there is nothing in the Rainbow 5 that suggests Americans knew in advance about peal Harbour.
Basicly Rainbow 5 is a plan from the 1920-1930 which deals strategy of all war scenarios US might find themselves in including most countries including UK and Canada ...

Yet some here seemed to think it is enough to mention Rainbow 5 as if this alone prove something. No it proves nothing.

If some wish to argue that US knew of pearl Harbour in advance kindly prove it. So far i have seen no such evidence presented.

~

Gee, onetruth, it's not that simple at this adult forum. I've re-posted below things that you didn't like & then you ignored, you tell me what's wrong with it. Be specific.

- Hannover
Hannover wrote:I see that onethruth's Amateur Night continues, this isn't even a fair fight.

However, here we go, and this is just a brief sample.

Retired FBI Admits Pearl Harbor Cover Up


and:
Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor Paperback – May 8, 2001
by Robert Stinnett
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/074320 ... ibert0f-20

and:
Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/h ... dr-was-not

and:
Image

and:
Image
http://www.amazon.com/Cover-Up-Politics ... 0870004239

and:
Pearl Harbor was an inside Job FDR not only knew about the attack in advance, but that his administration did everything it could to cause a Japanese attack on America
https://truth11.com/2010/10/17/pearl-ha ... on-americ/

This is too easy.

onetruth needs to get out more often.

- Hannover

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
Arthur Schopenhauer

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

avatar
Myths2LiveBy
Member
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:15 am

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on

Postby Myths2LiveBy » 7 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:40 pm)

blacksmith wrote:Hey Barrington James,

You over simplified the Jewish problem a bit and where the Nazis made their mistakes - and there were a packet of them. The pact they made with the Zionists was to get the Jews out of Germany. While Hitler was obsess with the Jewish question, he was still sane enough to suggest that the final solution should be left till after the war. BTW the final solution was simply getting the Jews out of Germany, any where.

What the world forgets is that it was the Jews who started the boycott Germany way back in 1933. But even so, Hitler did not want to harm the Jews physically and he was quite upset about Kristallnacht. . . .
Blacksmith


Most Revisionists (I call 'em Truthtellers) are aware that Hitler wanted to get the Jews out of Germany, and some know that NSDAP worked along with zionists to achieve this. (In "Zionism and Antisemitism in Nazi Germany," https://www.amazon.com/Zionism-Anti-Sem ... is+nicosia Francis Nicosia describes how one of the zionist terror groups set up a special unit, called (something like) Mossad-el aliyeh bet, to get Jews out of Germany and through the British blockade of Palestine. Nicosia notes that this Mossad group had an office across the street from Gestapo, and that the Jewish group worked cooperatively with German law enforcement in carrying out their task.

But few people seem aware of, or attach much importance to, a fact mentioned by Rabbi Stephen Wise in his autobiography: on or before Feb. 14, 1933, Louis Brandeis, the "chief" zionist in the USA and the one who called the shots for 'international Jewry,' said to Wise that "All Jews must leave Germany . . . I urge that no Jew remain in Germany."
Wise, astonished, replied, "How shall we get all 587,000 Jews out of Germany?"
Brandeis brushed aside Wise's concern; "All Jews must leave Germany," he repeated.

Some people say, That's just a normal thing, ordinary caution. I think it has a lot more importance:
1. This was Feb. 1933, not late 1944, when Jews started dying in large numbers. In fact, Jews were more protected once Hitler became chancellor than they had been during the later Weimar years. So Brandeis's directive was NOT to protect German Jews from physical harm.



2. At this time -- early 1933 -- Polish Jews WERE in physical danger, and so were Russians. Why wasn't Brandeis concerned to save those Jews? Why GERMAN Jews, who were NOT living in Stalin's killing fields?

Germar Rudolf expands on this aspect of the war in the Nov. 2015 interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtnfyerQ1mo when he observes that "by 1938 or so, Hitler had the blood of about a hundred or two hundred people on his hands, most of them Nazis, while Stalin had killed millions. Yet FDR and Churchill allied with Stalin and demonized Hitler!"
Indeed! How to explain it?
Susan Liebman Butler has researched the correspondence between FDR and Stalin. In a discussion about one of her books on that topic, Butler was asked about that anomaly: did she think it a problem that FDR allied with Stalin, who had murdered so many?
"No," said Liebman Butler; "Stalin killed kulaks and he had to do that to create the Communist vision. But Hitler's acts were genocidal!"
Makes perfect sense, right? Kulaks are dispensable. https://www.c-span.org/video/?190721-1/dear-mr-stalin

3. Jerry Muller has written and lectured on 'how Jews created capitalism." In one such lecture in which he discusses the financial prowess of Jews, he mentions that "Jews are quick to recognize when a situation, or an investment, is going bad, and they quickly get out of the situation before it turns into a losing proposition.
I suggest that Brandeis recognized that what Jews hoped, in 1918, would be their "thousand year reich" --- period of control over Germany, beginning with Jewish dominance in Weimar, was rapidly going south. Brandeis knew the "business opportunity was failing" and it was time to get out, and that the new fields of opportunity were USA and Palestine.
I believe that at that early point the plan was afoot to destroy Germany -- After all, at least 30 years earlier Herzl had asked Wilhelm to allow the Jews to "exodus" from Germany, and we should all be aware of the elements in the Jewish "exodus" pattern: they killed the Egyptians on the way out. I speculate that at the Jewish confab in Belgium (??) in March 1933, Jewish leadership decided to pull out of Germany and relocate to USA; it was certainly at that meeting that the plan for the economic war on Germany was planned.

avatar
Myths2LiveBy
Member
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:15 am

Re: "Our mothers,our fathers"New guilt-ridden propaganda on WW2

Postby Myths2LiveBy » 7 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:53 pm)

Hannover wrote:
onetruth wrote:
flimflam wrote:A few more minutes googling turned up this rebuttal to Stinnett's book ... which apparently is supposedly heavily documented by documents obtained from the FOIA, but ... it ain't so according to this rebuttal .... which rings true to me ....

http://www.artbarninc.org/REY/Stinnett.pdf


Indeed there is nothing in the Rainbow 5 that suggests Americans knew in advance about peal Harbour.
Basicly Rainbow 5 is a plan from the 1920-1930 which deals strategy of all war scenarios US might find themselves in including most countries including UK and Canada ...

Yet some here seemed to think it is enough to mention Rainbow 5 as if this alone prove something. No it proves nothing.

If some wish to argue that US knew of pearl Harbour in advance kindly prove it. So far i have seen no such evidence presented.

~

Gee, onetruth, it's not that simple at this adult forum. I've re-posted below things that you didn't like & then you ignored, you tell me what's wrong with it. Be specific.

- Hannover
Hannover wrote:I see that onethruth's Amateur Night continues, this isn't even a fair fight.

However, here we go, and this is just a brief sample.

Retired FBI Admits Pearl Harbor Cover Up


and:
Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor Paperback – May 8, 2001
by Robert Stinnett
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/074320 ... ibert0f-20

and:
Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/h ... dr-was-not

and:
Image

and:
Image
http://www.amazon.com/Cover-Up-Politics ... 0870004239

and:
Pearl Harbor was an inside Job FDR not only knew about the attack in advance, but that his administration did everything it could to cause a Japanese attack on America
https://truth11.com/2010/10/17/pearl-ha ... on-americ/

This is too easy.

onetruth needs to get out more often.

- Hannover

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
Arthur Schopenhauer

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.


Dr. Stephen Sniegoski analyzed this topic extensively in 2003; his essay was re-published on Ron Unz's forum recently -- check it out:
The Case for Pearl Harbor Revisionism
http://www.unz.com/article/the-case-for ... visionism/

It's a very long essay -- more like a monograph -- and you won't find 'silver bullet' declaration that "FDR knew."
Sniegoski DOES argue, however, that it's patently clear that USA provoked Japan, deliberately, and that the reason for doing so was to involve GERMANY in a war. War with Germany was the intended and ultimate goal of a deliberate provocation of Japan.


Return to “WWII Europe / Atlantic Theater Revisionist Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests