Did Ilya Ehrenburg demand killing German women and children?

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Werd
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Did Ilya Ehrenburg demand killing German women and children?

Postby Werd » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:06 am)

Not according to this blogger.
http://shoabloger.wordpress.com/2013/09 ... ehrenburg/

September 23, 2013 by rafikorn
In defense of Ilya Ehrenburg


I went through many websites, English, Russianilya-ehrenburg_1-t and German. I have read many articles and leaflets of comrade Ehrenburg. It is true that in his violent piece “Kill!” he called the Soviet soldiers to kill Germans, but he did it in the summer 1942 when Wehrmacht stood deep in the Soviet territory. Then and later, he did all he could to make the Soviet soldiers hate and kill. But it seems he never instigated them to kill children or women. There are many quotes in which he actually says, that children are to be protected: “We’re not going to exterminate all Germans: we are not cannibals. We will only eliminate the criminals who killed our children, hanged, rampaged and burned. The rest will be able to atone for their complicity in serious crimes with hard, honest work. Children have the right to enter into a new world: they are not responsible for the sins of their parents” (20 November 1944, “Liberator”)

The oft quoted: ”Use force and break the racial pride of these German women. Take them as your lawful booty“ does not seem to come from an original Russian source at all!!!

1. In 1961 the Bavarian State Library issued a proclamation where it declared that the text of the leaflet (with the discussed quote) has never been published in “Pravda” newspaper.

2. In 1996 the München Institute of Modern History issued expert conclusion that:

“Even though Ehrenburg was heavily involved in propaganda warfare, we have to inform that there has not been found any proof that Ehrenburg has been author of the leaflet with a call to taking German women as legal spoils of war.



We also know nothing of existence of such leaflet in Russian.”

The last 2 facts should be described in the two following articles:

1.„Die Vereinfachungen des Genossen Ehrenburg“ by Carola Tischler.

2.„Ubej!“ by Bernhard Fisch.

Ehrenburg himself immediately responded to uproar in Germany over his call for rape in this article in the Army newspaper “Red Star” from 25 November 1944:


A blond witch

The commander of the German Army Group “Nord” addressed his Fritzes with the following order: “Ilya Ehrenburg calls the Asians “drink the blood of German women.” Ilya Ehrenburg demands that Asians enjoy our women, “Take the blond women – it’s your booty.” Ilya Ehrenburg wakes the basest instincts of the steppe. Anyone who will retreat now is a scoundrel, for German soldiers are protecting their own wives now.”

Sometime ago the Germans forged documents of state importance. Now they sunk to the point that they are faking my articles. The quotes that the German general attributes to me expose the author: only a German would be able to compose such a dirty thing.

Fritzes are professional rapists, fornicators with solid experience, hereditary baboons. They have polluted the whole of Europe. In vain the General is insisting that we go to Germany after German females. We are not attracted to Gretchens, only to those Fritzes who abused our women, and we say bluntly that for these Germans there will be no mercy. As for the German women, they evoke in us only one feeling: disgust. We despise the German women for what they are – mothers, wives and sisters of the executioners. We despise the German women for what they wrote to their sons, husbands and brothers, “Send your honey a pretty fur coat.” We despise the German women for what they are: thieves and prostitutes.

We do not need blond hyenas. We’re going to Germany for something else: for Germany itself. And this blond witch is not going to escape from us. (Red Star, 25 November 1944)


***

After the horrible war crimes and mass rapes in East Prussia became known, Ehrenburg made a trip there. Back in Moscow, he appeared at the Frunze Military Academy and blamed officers for poor political and moral preparation of soldiers and for the lack of stringent measures against rapists and looters. For this, he reportedly had problems with the Party.


Image
Rostock, East Germany


And there is also this as well.
http://shoabloger.wordpress.com/2013/09 ... burg-1942/
September 22, 2013 by rafikorn
“Kill” – full text by Ilya Ehrenburg (1942)


This leaflet for Soviet soldiers was written in July 1942, at the time of German summer offensive deep into the Ukraine and Russia. The communists were scared to death, no less than in 1941 when the Wehrmacht stood at the outskirts of Moscow. Comrade Ehrenburg did not know at the time, if or when the Red army would reach Germany. He was trying to save the skins of his criminal friends in the Kremlin. However, later, when the Soviets were entering Germany, he repeated the words, which had genocidal consequences.


Kill!

Here are excerpts from three letters found on dead Germans.

Manager Reinhardt writes to Lieutenant Otto von Schirach:

“The French have been taken away to a factory. I have selected six Russians from the Minsk district. They are much tougher than the French. Only one of them died, the others continue to work in the fields and on the farm. Their upkeep does not cost anything, and we do not have to be sorry that these animals, whose children may be killing our soldiers, are eating German bread. Yesterday I had to flog two Russian beasts that secretly devoured skim milk that was destined for sows … “

Mathias Ziemlich writes to his brother, Corporal Heinrich Ziemlich:

“In Leiden there is a camp for Russian, where we can watch them. They are not afraid of weapons, so we talk to them a good lash … “

One Otto Essmann writes to Lieutenant Helmut Weygand:

“We’ve got Russian POWs. These types eat earthworms on the airfield, they rummage in garbage cans. I’ve seen them eat weeds. To think that these are human beings!! .. “

Slave owners, they want to turn our people into slaves. They kidnap to the Russians, brutalize them, bring them to madness with hunger, so that, dying, people are eating grass and worms; and a filthy German with a rotten cigar in his mouth philosophizes: “Is this humans? ..”

We know everything. We remember everything. We understand: the Germans are not human beings. From now on, the word “German” is for us the worst curse. From now on, the word “German” discharges the gun. We shall not discuss. We shall not get excited. We shall kill. If you have not killed at least one German in the day, your day is wasted. If you think that your neighbor will kill a German for you, you do not understand the threat. If you do not kill a German, the German will kill you. He will take your loved ones away and will torment them in their accursed Germany. If you can not kill a German with a bullet, kill him with bayonet. If there is calm in your sector, if you are waiting for a battle, kill the German before the battle. If you leave the German alive, he will hang a Russian man and violate a Russian woman. If you have killed one German, kill another – nothing is more joyful for us than German corpses. Do not count days. Do not count miles. Count one thing only: the Germans killed by you. Kill the Germans! – begs your old mother. Kill the Germans! – begs you child. Kill the Germans! – screams your native soil. Do not miss. Do not miss the aim. Kill!

(Red Star, 24 July 1942)


Image
the original leaflet

If the translation is accurate and the photoraph below is in fact the original Russian article, then it seems to me somone was competing with Ehrenburg in the realm of propaganda when they expounded upon his documented hatred and put a few extra words into his mouth that were not there after all.



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Re: Did Ilya Ehrenburg demand killing German women and child

Postby Werd » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:25 am)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AIlya_Ehrenburg

I wish also to clarify this paragraph in the wiki-article:

Other historians challenge Ehrenburg's authorship of the infamous "Kill"-leaflet. Their arguments are based on the absence of known original Soviet copies of the leaflet from archives and an article by the alleged author in the Krasnaya Zvezda dated November 24, 1944 in which Ehrenburg explicitly denies his authorship of the "Kill" leaflet. [2] (German) A few historians even claim the "Kill" leaflet to be a fabrication of the Nazi Propagandaministerium, invented to strengthen the German resistance during the final months of the war.

There is a confusion. The leaflet mention there was a Nazi fake. It also called “Kill” but has another words:

"Kill! Kill! In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these Germanic women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill! As you storm onward, kill, you gallant soldiers of the Red Army."
http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs983a.html


These words never were written by Ehrenburg. And in his article “Blonde witch” (title hints to Blonde beast = ubermensh) in the Krasnaya Zvezda dated November 25, 1944 Ehrenburg wrote:

"There was a time, when Germans used to fake important documents of state. Now they have fallen so low as to fake my articles. The quotes that German general ascribed to me betrayed their’s author: only the German is able to make up this dirty"


I think saying Ehrenburg never wrote "Kill" is a bit of an overreach. A desperate attempt to disprove he never advocated rape. You can clearly admit he wrote "Kill" as a propaganda leaflet without having to accept he advocated rape.

The following is taken from the book Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape by Susan Brownmiller.

http://s21.postimg.org/5hwh97nh3/againstwill.jpg

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Re: Did Ilya Ehrenburg demand killing German women and child

Postby Hektor » 2 years 3 months ago (Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:13 pm)

I've read that some of what has been attributed to Ilya Ehrenburg regarding the incitement of rape has been controversial or in dispute. One will have to find the original russian pamphlets and translate them thoroughly to see what the facts are.
Here is an example:
http://militera.lib.ru/prose/russian/er ... 3/091.html
There is even a denial from Ehrenburgs side:
http://militera.lib.ru/prose/russian/er ... 3/207.html

And here is an article where he mentions the six million Jews:
http://militera.lib.ru/prose/russian/er ... 3/217.html


The IfZ claims no knowledge of that pamphlet:
https://archive.org/details/InstitutFue ... aEhrenburg
But would they really want to?

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Re: Did Ilya Ehrenburg demand killing German women and child

Postby Werd » 2 years 3 months ago (Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:57 pm)

As seen above, the revisionist website shoablogger found the original KILL pamphlet in Russian. Nowhere is there any mention of rape. Ehrenburg told the Soviet soldiers not to lower themselves so as to have intercourse with German women. Revisionists should drop the claim he condoned or ordered rape.

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Re: Did Ilya Ehrenburg demand killing German women and child

Postby mataleo » 2 years 3 months ago (Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:24 am)

Ilya Ehrenberg - The Man
Who Invented The 'Six Million'

http://rense.com/general75/ehr.htm

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Re: Did Ilya Ehrenburg demand killing German women and child

Postby Werd » 2 years 3 months ago (Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:43 am)

This Rense article does not prove Ehrenburg condoned or ordered rape. In fact, some revisionists have proven he never said that and it was just nazi counter propaganda. See my first two posts.

Then there is the issue of the article recommending Hoffman's book. While his anti Stalin conclusion is generally correct, the sources used back then were limited and he basically had a lot of circumstantial evidence. In later years, he thesis has become better supported by more modern works by Suvorov, Bunich, Meltyakhov and Solonin which were written AFTER the opening of many Soviet archives. Hoffman's work is simply an outdated book and is now an object of history. While a decent book, it is not without its problems. I personally would never pay full price for Hoffman's book.

Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack

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Re: Did Ilya Ehrenburg demand killing German women and child

Postby Hektor » 2 years 3 months ago (Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:43 am)

It's the nature of the game. New documents come to late, new conclusions can be drawn.

Ilya Ehrenburg wrote thousands of articles. To learn more, one would have to go through all of them.

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Re: Did Ilya Ehrenburg demand killing German women and children?

Postby Erik » 1 month 3 days ago (Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:02 pm)

Sadly it looks very true.
Throughout History, and to this present day and in future, governments and groups will bury their own dirty parts
of History, and they will do so over and over and over. Ehrenburg was said to get a lot of that famous leaflet writing from the book of Samuel in the bible. (Samuel 1: 15:3) Which also states to kill every man, Woman, child, infant, oxen, sheep, donkey, ... That is a very famous piece from the bible and has been restated my millions many times ~ sadly it falls into War mongers heads as well.

From most every side of WWII the 'above the line' people went in-to, or were already there for a long time (hence getting hired to such positions) these horrid states of mind where they found killing as many civilians as possible, not only 'just fine', but their WANT. To them it became THEE gratification.

To dumb-down so many facts and say, "no it was only the other guys that were so evil, everyone on my side or my religion,
or my ancestry, or my hair-style, etc were FANTASTIC people!" is clearly ignorant and unintelligent.

The fire-bombing of Dresden had the same thing. The red cross counted, statistic'sized, etc and rounded to 275,000 civilians killed from the white-phosphorous, mathematically planned-out 3 day bombing. Brits and American pilots who were involved talked about how horrific and unjust it was, how they were lied to about it being an ammunition city... The American Writer Kurt Vonnegut was there as a P.O.W. when it happened, put to work in a building- he hid 2 or 3 floors underground in a meat locker- he spoke of how inhumane the whole thing was and in a city that was basically museums, cigarette factories, Hospitals and clarinet factories. (etc) DECADES later, the count on the #'s started going down, down, down, down, every year or 5 the #'s would go down... so 275,000 from the red cross and various other groups... and now the u.s. and Brits tell Germany that they must agree to the # of 25,000. (Does anyone remember Dick Cheney when asked about the number of civilians killed in Iraq being 1.2 Million (done by 3 separate census groups, getting approx' 80% death certificates)? dick's body language changed into 'WALL' / acting/lying mode, "No, uhm.. i think it's uh, i was told that it was more like... 30,000? " (A number that the commoners could kinda deal with).

Ilya Ehernburg was clearly filled with hate and anger. Looking at his writings this is obvious. We can't just say, "Well they were
all that way, but not that famous one that did some of the most terrible things recorded- that's just... propaganda by those
nazis. the photographs of the civilian Women raped and crusified, that was acting, and the babies heads bashed-in, those
were, uhm... dolls."

There are HORROR stories from most every side of the WAR. The most sad part is that common people followed
those written instructions. He was horrid. But we must remember, (as Obi Wan Kenobi said), "Who is more foolish,
the fool or he who follows it?"


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