Krema II Operation

[Sailor]

van Pelt’s total of 4 kg coke for the complete cremation of a human body seems kind of low. May be it is a spiritual 4 kg of koke and has no relation with this our reality. Just to convert the water of a 140 lb heavy corps from 100C water to 100C steam already requires 4 kg koke.

The efficiency of a furnace is not very high, most of the heat probably goes through the chimney. And then the Topf design uses an indirect cremation process, the off-gas from the koke-burning furnace does not get in direct contact with the muffel and the corpse during the cremation process, only during the initial warming up period. Once the 1000C temperature is reached a second air system starts and the heat is transferred from the coke off-gas through a recuperator to the muffel air system to the corpse. And all of this is connected with heat losses.

I asked Mattogno whether he could send a copy of the operating instructions of the Topf ovens for Auschwitz. In his article he makes reference to these in the footnotes.
If I get the stuff I will post it here for all of us.

fge

[Malle]

Sailor, please inform us idiots in Europe, what's 140 lbs? I can look in a book what the measurements of 140 lbs is, but I know that you are intelligent person, you should make a direct translation to the metric system because you use kg in your post.

[TMoran]

=================

One of the most direct routes to dealing with the 4.5 kilos of coke claimed by Holocaust promoters to be sufficient to cremate a body is to compare it to the requirements and times of modern day cremation facilities.

A modern day cremation oven takes about an hour and some 1,000,000 BTUs of fuel to cremate a 150 pound body and 4.5 kilos of coke can only deliver about 112,000 BTUs.

Since Holocaust promoters will tell us the Germans only partially cremated the bodies in order to explain the incredibly low time rates we could even cut the modern day fuel requirements to 500,000 BTUs and still come up with a big challenge to the 4.5 kilo claim.

The 4,5 kilograms stands on very woobly, feeble legs.

[Sailor]

Sailor, please inform us idiots in Europe, what's 140 lbs? I can look in a book what the measurements of 140 lbs is, but I know that you are intelligent person, you should make a direct translation to the metric system because you use kg in your post.

140 lb is about 70 kg. I should have stayed with the metric system. Here in the US they usually measure peoples weight in pounds.To go from fluid water to steam requires 540 kcal/kg of water, assuming 70kg weight of the corpse with 45.5 kg water content, temperature 20C, then the required energy would be
45,5 * [(100-20) + 540] = ca. 28 000 kcal, with 7000Kcal/Kg for coke the theoretical required amount of coke would be
28 000: 7 000 = 4 kg.

[Malle]

Thank you Sailor.

Every time when we read a posting, we should not go to a book and look up a translation table. Next time I post something with some measurements in it I will convert it into North American style. Thanks once more.

[Hannover]

First of all, it's 3.5kg that is alleged.
But, cutting to the chase, there has never been a case shown (and can never be shown) where 3.5kg of coke was sufficient to cremate a human corpse. The leading advocate of this bizarre and laughable assertion is Robert Jan Van Pelt, an alleged Auschwitz 'expert'. In fact it takes about 9-10 times that amount. This lie is necessary since the amount of coke shipped to Auschwitz/Birkenau is known and does not correlate to the number of bodies allegedly cremated there....amount of coke per body.

Using state-of-the-art technology of the year 2002, cremations take about 1 hour, with further time necessary for breaking up of the charred remains (ca. 1/2 hr.). This does not fit with the nonsense of the "holocaust" as alleged which states as little as 4-7 minutes per corpse.

Ofcourse, it could be that the Germans had magical powers to to suspend laws of science.

Any questioning of this 3.5kg nonsense will get you arrested and thrown in jail in many countries.

- Hannover

[Peptic]

First of all, it's 3.5kg that is alleged.
But, cutting to the chase, there has never been a case shown (and can never be shown) where 3.5kg of coke was sufficient to cremate a human corpse. The leading advocate of this bizarre and laughable assertion is Robert Jan Van Pelt, an alleged Auschwitz 'expert'. In fact it takes about 9-10 times that amount.

Well lower figures than 30kg can be achieved in multi-muffle furnaces. I think Mattogno has discussed figures as low as 12-13kg per corpse. The discrepancy now is only 300%.

[Hannover]

Well lower figures than 30kg can be achieved in multi-muffle furnaces. I think Mattogno has discussed figures as low as 12-13kg per corpse. The discrepancy now is only 300%.

Was this figure for a Topf oven in the early 1940s?

But your point is noted...a lie by "only" 300% . That's the so called
holocaust' for you.

- vH.

[Sailor]

In "The Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau" by Mattogno/Deana the coke requirement for a normal body in a three-muffle oven, which was installed in KremaII and III in Auschwitz-Birkenau, is 25kg, in an eight-muffle oven the coke consumption for the same body would be 13kg.

fge

[Hannover]

Ah yes, I was just about right, as there were no eight muffle ovens in Kremas II-III. My my, the games people play.

Thanks Sailor.

- Hannover

[Peptic]

In "The Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau" by Mattogno/Deana the coke requirement for a normal body in a three-muffle oven, which was installed in KremaII and III in Auschwitz-Birkenau, is 25kg, in an eight-muffle oven the coke consumption for the same body would be 13kg.

fge

I had said: "Well lower figures than 30kg can be achieved in multi-muffle furnaces." I believe that 25kg and 13kg are both lower than 30kg. Such confirmation therefore, whilst welcome, was unnecessary.

I might also point out that the 25kg figure for a normal body refers to the Topf two-muffle oven as used in Krema I (also in Gusen).

If you look at page 391 of Dissecting the Holocaust you will find the following:

Therefore, the coke requirements of the three-muffle oven were as follows:

normal body:
25.0 kg × 2/3 = 16.7 kg (36.8 lbs) coke;

moderately skinny body:
28.0 kg × 2/3 = 18.7 kg (41.2 lbs) coke;

emaciated body ("Muselmann"):
30.5 kg × 2/3 = 20.3 kg (44.7 lbs) coke.


These figures hold true only if the oven is operated under optimum conditions.

And on page 392:

The coke requirements of the eight-muffle oven were therefore as follows:

normal body:
25 ÷ 2 = 12.50 kg (27.5 lbs) coke;

moderately skinny body:
28 ÷ 2 = 14.00 kg (30.9 lbs) coke;

emaciated body ("Muselmann"):
30.5 ÷ 2 = 15.25 kg (33.6 lbs) coke.


A comparison with incinerators for the disposal of animal cadavers shows that the coke requirements of the eight-muffle oven correspond to the theoretical minimum level.

The words 'completely' and 'vindicated' come to mind

[Sailor]

Says Peptic: The words 'completely' and 'vindicated' come to mind

Slowly doctor, you left the following out, which Mattogno wrote before the list with the numbers for the reduced coke consumptions you referred to:

Prüfer had therefore overlooked another economic advantage of these ovens: the possibility for using the clean, hot air contained in the stack gases as combustion air. In the three-muffle oven the two muffles at the sides, which acted like a double-muffle oven, gave off high-temperature stack gases to the center muffle, and these gases contained clean air in sufficient quantities to cremate a body

I have difficulties to understand this without a diagram, a cross-sectional view of the cremation equipment. I have asked Mattogno where/how I could get hold of such a technical diagram and also the Topf operational manual for the oven. Unfortunately sofar I have not received an answer.

What he says: The three-muffle oven could be operated like a two-muffle oven by using the clean stack gas from the outer two muffles to cremate the body in the center muffle. How does he propose to separate the clean stack gas from the dirty (coke off-gas)?

Also he says that it is possible to do so. Now we have to find out: How can this be done mechanically and were the three-muffles actually operated this way? Or is this only a theoretical possibility?

fge

[Hannover]

We then move from the theoretical (meaning never achieved on a regular basis, if achieved at all), to the question of cremation times.

According to the standard story of the 'holocaust', this all occurred with 4-7 minutes, an utter impossibility.

highly acclaimed "eyewitness" Henryk Tauber stated that a body could be cremated in 5-7 minutes

Auschwitz "eyewitness" Dov Paisikovic, stated that the cremation of one body took about four minutes!

Question these impossibilities and you'll go to jail in many countries

- Hannover

[Sailor]

I did receive an answer from Mattogno on my enquiry about the operation manual of the crematorium in Auschwitz/Birkenau and a drawing how all those parts fit together: The furnaces, recuperators, muffles, and the air blowers for the furnace and the muffles.

He has it all in a new book of his: "I forni crematori di Auschwitz", in two volums, which will be out shortly. He finished his message with
Lo prego dunque di avere ancora un po' di pazienza. Cordiali saluti. Carlo. (He is Italian).

Well, when it comes out I plan to purchase it.

fge