Nazi's killed Jews with magic atomic bomb...

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:20 pm)

So now Trojan, you have come from denying that there was even a document, to the tortured argument that it doesn't count since it was not 'placed in evidence' ... even though the man questioned about the document was required to respond about it.

The simple fact is that the judge had this document and grilled Speer about it, which means it was a Nuremberg document. The document was considered legitimate by this Nuremberg judge, Jackson, otherwise he wouldn't have used it. And the fact is that the questioning was entered into the official Nuremberg record.

You can't have it both ways Trojan; if it was used at Nuremberg, it was necessarily an official Nuremberg document. End of story.

- Hannover


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:12 pm)

Ahem, this story confirms the fact of fraudulent / forged documents use by the Soviets, hence Jackson had a Soviet document in hand, see:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1892

I say this confirms the use of forgeries because the man claiming German atomic exposions in the linked article refers to material in the Soviet archives which ties in with the use of forgeries at Nuremberg, and that Judge Jackson obviously had them, used them.

This new 'Nazi Bomb' allegation has been rationally refuted by all parties. Therefore the Soviet material is necessarily a forgery, the man making the claim is grasping at straws.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:38 pm)

How does an obvious bull sh*t story like that corelate to Jackson?

That's like saying because Rudolf lied to a relative about the use of a pen name, threofre Rudolf is a liar and his testimony cannot be trusted (government's position, not mine).

This news article is a disgrace and should never have been reported beyond the tabloids.
Last edited by Trojan on Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:02 pm)

Simple. There are Soviet documents, obviously phoney, which were used to justify this Nazi bomb story. The author of the 'Hitler's Bomb' book, Rainer Karlsch, says his beliefs 'mesh with documents found in the Soviet Archives'. Oops.
Judge Jackson said at Nuremberg:
Now, I have certain information, which was placed in my hands ..

Logic tells us that the 'information, which was placed in his hands' were phoney Soviet documents of the type found by Karlsch ... the USSR being a victorious Allied member who submitted quantities of 'documents' at Nuremberg which became notorious for forgeries. Now Karlsch's efforts support that.

Karlsch has been duped in to believing it, but that's his problem, and it reveals the extent of forgeries by the Soviets.

Nizkor's:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniqu ... ic-01.html
is shredded.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:33 pm)

That's like saying because Rudolf lied to a relative about the use of a pen name, threofre Rudolf is a liar and his testimony cannot be trusted (government's position, not mine).




Thank you Trojan. I had gas chamber supporters say exactly that to avoid discussing the true forensics at Birkenau.

I was banned from the site shortly after without explanation...

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Trojan
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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:47 pm)

Radar wrote:
That's like saying because Rudolf lied to a relative about the use of a pen name, threofre Rudolf is a liar and his testimony cannot be trusted (government's position, not mine).




Thank you Trojan. I had gas chamber supporters say exactly that to avoid discussing the true forensics at Birkenau.

I was banned from the site shortly after without explanation...


What site was that?

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:34 pm)

It was a politics site within a publisher's main board. The site was one of the free-est boards I've ever seen on the net where criticism of Israel or Jews was tolerated as long as you obeyed site rules and behaved. The same freedom was extended to zionists or anyone pro-Israel. I engaged revisionism with the college-age liberal-minded persons who compose the main membership. I was given the usual business up to the point where they refused to answer direct evidence. From there on I was slandered with vicious abusive attacks and generally referred to as a nazi holocaust denying white supremicist. When I confronted them on avoiding the facts the best they would do was say I was guilty of "trying to minimize the holocaust".

It was at this point that the moderators started getting uptight about non-specific conduct. I suggest they were being approached by people threatening them with running a "hate site" or some other gimmick used to excuse outright censorship. One day the politics board just disappeared.

Trojan, who do you think got the board shut-down, and why?


There was a second "off-topic" board on this same site where we continued our debates. Those who promoted the holocaust were basically allowed to violate all site rules with impunity. They were allowed to openly attack anyone critical of things zion while using profanities and all sorts of anti-social abuses. Suddenly I was denied access to the site. These persons, I'm sure, still have free access to the site -even though I was on-topic and civil...
Last edited by Radar on Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:25 pm)

I'm confused though:

Do revisionists believe there was an experiment that worked, or an atom splitting or something?

And how does it relate to Irving's book about the Nazi atomic project? Do Karlsch and Irving believe the same thing?

And from this how does it relate to that weird atomic conversation at Nuremberg?
Logic tells us that the 'information, which was placed in his hands' were phoney Soviet documents of the type found by Karlsch ... the USSR being a victorious Allied member who submitted quantities of 'documents' at Nuremberg which became notorious for forgeries. Now Karlsch's efforts support that.

Did Karlsch find a document that mentioned blowing up Jewish camp inmates in the archives?

Sorry if I'm a little confused, but I've been wondering how that new book related to that infamous Nuremberg dialogue.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:58 pm)

Carto's Cutlass, please read:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniqu ... ic-01.html
Nizkor says:
However, when this section of the Nuremberg trial transcript is quoted by Holocaust-deniers, that fact is always omitted. It is quoted out of context to make it seem as though Jackson was making an accusation against the Nazis of having killed Jews with nuclear weapons!


The debate in this thread is about whether faked Soviet documents making claims that '20,000 Jews were killed by a German atomic bomb' were used by Judge Jackson at Nuremberg.

The anti-Revisionist Nizkor essentially maintains that the information that Jackson had was of German origin, that Germans manufactured this tale to keep the German people confident of victory. Karlsch in his book claims to have seen documents in the Soviet archive that support his Nazi atomic bomb idea. I maintain that Karlsch did see Soviet documents of the type that Jackson called ''information, which was placed in his hands". The documents were not of German origin, but clearly Soviet. Karlsch fell for the fake documents and that Jackson had at his disposal documents like those that Karlsch saw.

Nizkor's McCarthy attempts to guide the reader on the Jackson-Speer exchange by claiming that Speer's discussion of 'wonder weapons' propaganda was actually referring to German atomic bomb propaganda. I maintain that Speer was simply referring to the fact that Germans did claim 'wonder weapons', which ultimately turned out to be V-1 & V-2 rockets.

It's absurd to believe that the Germans would use a claim of 'killing 20,000 Jews with an atomic bomb' as a propaganda tool to rally the people. I can just see the German officials telling their population:

'Hey we just killed 20,000 Jews with an atomic bomb, so hang in there, help is on the way'.

It's clear that Judge Jackson was making his inquiry on the basis of Soviet claims put forth in documents. This is a classic example of the fraudulence that was the Nuremberg Trials.

Re-read this thread for more of my points.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:28 am)

If the debate as about Soviet documents, why did no one mention Soviet documents until the last few days?
And how do we know its a Soviet document?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:08 pm)

If the debate as about Soviet documents, why did no one mention Soviet documents until the last few days?

I suggest you read my previous posts about the absurdity of claiming they were German documents and that Judge Jackson had ''information, which was placed in his hands". That leaves the Soviets, who curiously estabished a military base at the site.

And Trojan, the gullible author of the book says they were Soviet documents. Oops.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:26 pm)

So the information "placed in his hands" could only be of Soviet origin? Eliminating any possible connection to the western allies.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:02 pm)

As stated previously, Karlsch confirms the faked Soviet documents.
There is no indication of the other Allies manufacturing absurd German atomic bomb documents, but there's plenty to indicate the Soviets did.

- Hannover
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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:37 pm)

I totally agree with Hannover that the Nuremberg dialogue was based on Soviet propaganda, and it's absurd that Nizkor tries to say otherwise.

But at the same time can't that be separate from whether the Nazis were close to developing an atomic bomb? And if they did a small atom split experiment? I guess I'd have to look at Irving's book and then Karlsch's.

But, yes, if Karlsch goes largely by Soviet archives, I wouldn't take much stock in that.

I see the Jackson/Speer dialogue at Nuremberg, and Nazi atomic research as separate. Clearly Speer is lying for whatever reasons. Hess was probably talking about Speer when he intimated that defendants were completely changed in the courtroom. In fact, it almost looks like Speer is setting Jackson up to look clever in the dialogue banter.

In fact, Speer says all the atomic scientists were Jewish and they left Germany. However in the Oppenheimer New Mexico group I don't recall hearing of any German Jewish expatriates on that project. You'd think they would have been recruited just like Werner Von Braun after the war. Just who were those scientists that left Germany and go nameless? And please don't say "Albert Einstein" because he wasn't involved in the New Mexico project.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:58 pm)

Nizkor says:
However, when this section of the Nuremberg trial transcript is quoted by Holocaust-deniers, that fact is always omitted. It is quoted out of context to make it seem as though Jackson was making an accusation against the Nazis of having killed Jews with nuclear weapons!

It's a strawman. Jackson is making an inquiry into an accusation put forth in an obviously faked Soviet document. Nizkor then tries manipulating the dialogue between Speer & Jackson by implying that the information Jackson had about killing 20,000 Jews was German propaganda and confirmed by Speer. It's absurd.

The documents that Karlsch saw, fake as they are, create problems for Nizkor's tortured spin. They reveal that Jackson did indeed have phoney Soviet documents at his disposal.

There is no evidence to support the Karlsch claim, which believe me, if there was even a shred, the 'holocau$t' Industry would milk it for all it's worth. For a change, many of the news stories on this make valid points about what is actually required for such an endeavor and how the Germans did not have those requirements. Irving has good information as well which refutes Karlsch's claims. The Germans obviously had the technical know how, but lacked the enriched uranium ... which requires a vast complex.

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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