claim: 2000 'gassed Jews' per batch / but only one Elevator

[Hannover]

Points to consider:

- Jews supposedly arrived in groups of 2,000 and were crammed into an underground area, Leichenkeller (morgue) 2, where they undressed.

- Then they were supposedly crammed into an adjoining Leichenkeller (morgue) 1, and then supposedly gassed with 'Zykon-B'.

- After the alleged gassing, the claimed 2,000 bodies had to be taken up to the cremation ovens above, on the ground floor.

- There were fifteen ovens to cremate the 2,000 gassed people. One would need another place to put the alleged bodies as there were more people supposedly waiting to be gassed.

- There was one elevator.

Questions:

1. Was the movement of these claimed gassed Jews to the crematory ovens supposedly achieved using just one elevator?

2. What was the elevator capacity? How was it powered?

3. How quickly could an alleged 2000 corpses be lifted in one elevator to be cremated?

and:

4. Wouldn't exposure to supposedly cyanide laden corpses be a hazard to those working near the crematorium ovens?

5. And where were the 'not yet cremated' corpses supposedly stored in order to accomodate the alleged, next incoming batch of Jews?

- Hannover

[Turpitz]

What was the elevator capacity? How was it powered?

The elevator consisted of a wooden platform with no sides, that was manually winched from above which dragged it up the elevator shaft.

Forget your grand illusions of modern electronically winched and enclosed elevators, this was the most basic and crude type of elevator you could envisage.

This was an argument that Irving had with skunky Evans in court revolving around the slow and arduous movement of corpses. Evans suggested they loaded the platform with many corpses whilst Irving logically suggested that only one at a time would have been permissable in reality.

Once again Irving was right, but the industry managed to bullshit their way out as usual.

[Richard Perle]

And of course, using the morgue for gassings means that there is nowhere to keep the bodies of the typhus victims.

[Turpitz]

The buildings concerned are completely useless for what the ridiculous industry stories suggest. You do not have to be a Builder, Engineer, Architect or even understand basic building rules. All one has to do is walk yourself through the supposed process and in no time you will hit a catastrophic bottle-neck that will grind everything to a halt and cause utter mayhem.

[Hannover]

Thanks Turpitz, but what is the 'holocau$t' Industry's spin on this elevator problem? Simply piling on more than one corpse while someone winched them up?
How big was the elevator surface?

RPerle, aren't bodies supposed to have been piled up outside? Ofcourse, we don't see these piles in any photos, and keeping diseased corpses outside would certainly make for an enormous health hazard.

- Hannover

[Turpitz]

Going by the forged floor plans the shaft is 9ft (2.8m) by 4ft (1.2m) so the platform would be slighly smaller. The elevator was no more sophisticated than a builders hoist that they use to lift buckets of mortar onto scaffolding with.
The real elevator was never delivered. It had no door, or cage, or walls - it was just a platform jolting up and down that elevator shaft. Somewhere along the line the industry said the wooden platform could hold 1500kg in weight, because of this Pelty reckons the platform could therefore lift twenty five corpses at a time. Irving said: "In practice, as there was just a flat platform with no walls or door, jolting up and down the narrow concrete elevator shaft, it would have been impossible to stack onto one small flat platform twenty-five naked cadavers in the conditions of filth and slime that were described by the eye-witnesses. It does not bear thinking about, I agree. We can not produce hard figures for this part of the exercise, but one thing is plain: that one elevator in Krema II was the inescapable bottleneck, and it makes plain that, whatever was happening downstairs in Leichenkeller 1, it was not on the huge scale that history now suggests."

So going by the floor plans the actual wooden platform was just under 9'x4' and had to be winched by hand, Pelty said at the trial that this 9'x4' wooden platform with no sides or cage could whilst being winched by hand lift twenty five slimy cadavers at once. One must assume Popeye and Pluto were working the winch, what they did with twenty-five corpses when they finally reached the oven room is anyones guess considering there are only fifteen slow burning ovens.

[Hannover]

A just under 9 ft. X 4 ft. elevator with no sides holding '25 corpses'?
That's about the size of a diving board at a swimming pool. That's utterly impossible, it's laughable.

Also, wouldn't the crematory operators be exposed to cyanide coming up the elevator opening? They certainly couldn't have waited for the Zyklon-B to completely outgas (that takes hours) since there was another group of Jews supposedly waiting to be gassed immediately.

The entire Auschwitz gassing tale falls apart on the absurdity of the elevator alone ... not to mention the many other points.

- Hannover

[Turpitz]

You also have to realise the absurdity of suggesting "twenty-five" corpses at once. Not only would they not fit on this skinny little ledge but you have the weight factor to consider also.

Let's say twenty-five cadavers averaging ten stone each (140lbs or 63kgs) times that by twenty-five gives us 3500lbs or 1575kgs which is basically over 1.5 tons. Tell me who, what was pulling this 1.5 tons excluding the actual platform up this shaft? Was ther a twenty five man strong tug'o'war team working in the oven rooms? There is no reference on the plans to any counter balance shaft which would also obviously have to carry 1.5 tons.

Typical industry hogwash!

[Daniel Saez Lorente]

Another problem is if you piled the bodies up willy-nilly on top of each other, how long do you think it would be before a hand or a foot or something got jammed between the floor of the hoist and the wall of the shaft? Or ten hands and feet? So the 25 guy tug of war team is holding onto a rope to keep the whole hoist from falling back down the shaft while the crew of gas-resistant kapos chops the arms and legs off, or pries them loose or something, I don't know what. Was there a ratchet to prevent the thing crashing back down the shaft? Did they use a block and pulley?

Production line killing without a production line.

[Hannover]

Production line killing without a production line.

Excellent.

- Hannover

[rahulkghosh]

Points to consider:

- Jews supposedly arrived in groups of 2,000 and were crammed into an underground area, Leichenkeller (morgue) 2, where they undressed.

- Then they were supposedly crammed into an adjoining Leichenkeller (morgue) 1, and then supposedly gassed with 'Zykon-B'.

- After the alleged gassing, the claimed 2,000 bodies had to be taken up to the cremation ovens above, on the ground floor.

- There were fifteen ovens to cremate the 2,000 gassed people. One would need another place to put the alleged bodies as there were more people supposedly waiting to be gassed.

- There was one elevator.

Questions:

1. Was the movement of these claimed gassed Jews to the crematory ovens supposedly achieved using just one elevator?

2. What was the elevator capacity? How was it powered?

3. How quickly could an alleged 2000 corpses be lifted in one elevator to be cremated?

and:

4. Wouldn't exposure to supposedly cyanide laden corpses be a hazard to those working near the crematorium ovens?

5. And where were the 'not yet cremated' corpses supposedly stored in order to accomodate the alleged, next incoming batch of Jews?

- Hannover

It's absolutely absurd. I would think, it would take at bare minimum, 2 minutes per body per person working.

[Hannover]

Robert Jan Van Pelt, supposed Auschwitz 'expert', said this when taking about his courtroom appearance, in the famous Irving/Lipstadt trial:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/expe ... 00102.html

He said the one thing he could not forgive Mr Irving for was when he, Van Pelt, was forced under cross-examination to add up the number of victims that could have been handled by the one available elevator [a small platform hoist between the basement Leichenkeller 1 in Krema II at Auschwitz and the crematory furnaces on the ground level] because some survivors were in the courtroom, and this put them through agony.[*]

But then there is this from Irving:

* Website note: The elevator is a well-known problem for the conformist Holocaust historians: how could the corpses of "450,000 gassed Hungarian Jews" have been hoisted by that one elevator from the basement morgue ("gas chamber") to the crematoria upstairs in three weeks in May 1944? It is an insuperable bottleneck, which Van Pelt "solved" in Court, so far as we remember, by asserting that the Nazis stacked the bodies on the hoist twenty at a time and achieved an improbably, almost comically, high turnaround time. The hoist was some 4 feet by three and had no walls or door...

Debunking the 'holocaust' is too easy.

- Hannover

[Atigun]

Hannover,

Actually, debunking the holocaust is 'easy' only as an exercise in science and logic. To paraphrase you, 'If the event was physically impossible then it couldn't happen'. However, the holocaust has been elevated to the status of a religion, therefore proving that it didn't happen proves nothing but heresy, even blasphemy. It (the holocaust) happened, therefore it was possible much as the resurrection happened and, amongst believers, cannot be refuted. Evolution has not carried the day against creationism. I think it entirely likely that proving the holocaust a scientific impossibility will not carry the day against the hoaxsters. Revisionists may gain an increasing following of rational and educated people but the high priests of the hoax will maintain their congregation of blind believers.

[Hannover]

See this for more on the 'holocaust' elevator that defied science and rational thought.

Lift in Krema II
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3646

- Hannover

[Hektor]

A just under 9 ft. X 4 ft. elevator with no sides holding '25 corpses'?
That's about the size of a diving board at a swimming pool. That's utterly impossible, it's laughable..... The entire Auschwitz gassing tale falls apart on the absurdity of the elevator alone ... not to mention the many other points....

If the gas chamber would have been built on the same level as the cremation facilities, No elevator would have been needed at all. So the design with gas chambers in the basement is already absurd.

Putting morgues in the basement makes sense, since it is easier to keep them cool that way.


Even if they'd moved 20 corpses per lifting of the elevator. 2000 corpses still would have required lifting the elevator 100 times. So How long would that have taken?