Railroad Delousing Tunnels and Robert Faurisson

[ps]

Data now computed:

10 g HCN/m³ Dewpoint: -85°F or -65°C
100 g HCN/m³ Dewpoint: -22°F or -30°C

It is not dangerous to touch a dead body. He has maybe 100 mg of HCN in his body änd on his surface you have maybe 0,05mg/100cm². This is nothing.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

And at +85 degrees Fahrenheit, why would PS or anyone believe there is any HCN on the surface of the corpse at all?

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[ps]

Hey Fritz, you didn´t understand me. I told, that practical nothing of HCN is on the surface! It would be completely harmless!

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

The enormous and "formidable" problems Faurisson insists would confound anyone trying to commit mass murder with cyanide--are ALL overcome easily enough; and the Germans had the technology in place and in operation using warmed (above 90 degrees Fahrenheit), fresh air to ventilate all likely corpses in about one hour. Faurisson is ignorant of basic high school general science. Cyanide boils at about 79 degrees Fahrenheit and could NOT possibly condense on corpses or anything else above that temperature. Furthermore, since corpses cool upon death rather slowly (about 1 degree per hour after death) it would be many hours before such corpses would be cool enough for any condensation on the skin to even begin.

The problems of American gas executions arise because the executions are conducted at, or near, ordinary room temperatures (about 70 degrees F and below cyanide's boiling point) and because the metal gas chambers (tightly sealed pressure vessels with negative pressure to protect onlookers from possible cyanide leaks) are not insulated. After any American gas execution, since the chamber is below the boiling point of cyanide--some cyanide does, indeed, condense on the metal chamber walls from which it will eventually evporate also. It can then endanger any people present after an execution. Similarly, the hair of the victim may have some cyanide condensation because it may be cooler than cyanide's boiling point---but, but, but the corpse of the prisoner will, in general, be well above the boiling point of cyanide for many hours and will NOT present any danger to anyone.

The German Kreislauf delousing gas chambers, including the railroad delousing tunnels, were far superior in their design. For one thing, they were thoroughly insulated so as to maintain temperatures a-b-o-v-e cyanide's boiling point. Even the walls and ceilings of those gas chambers would be above the boiling point of cyanide. Since the cyanide-air mixture during the fumigating phase was also above the boiling point and the subsequent fresh air during venting was above the boiling point as well, nothing like the problems Faurisson has fantasized could even occur.

Can Faurisson ever understand any of that? I am afraid the answer is: never.

Friedrich Paul Berg

Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com

Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Obviously, I misunderstood PS. Sorry.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[ps]

Yes, You misunderstood me perfectly

[Kiwichap]

These questions are getting too tricky for me. I suggest you bundle them up and send them to Rudolf.

Don't include Wahrheit's ..cyanide-saturated bodies simply would not pose a threat to any workers' lives.. that one might be too tricky for him.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Wahrheit's comment that:

..cyanide-saturated bodies simply would not pose a threat to any workers' lives

is perfectly correct since there would be NO cyanide saturated bodies at all involved here. NONE! Faurisson's theories about these issues are totally "off the wall,"--COOKOO! Faurisson simply has no idea as to what he was, and still is, talking about--and neither do any of the people who blindly repeat his nonsense.

I have used the word "unscientific" to describe Faurisson's work in this regard which may give the impression that some great scientific mysteries are involved here. That is not what is involved at all; it is all about rather basic high school level physics and nothing more complicated or "scientific" than that. There can be absolutely no condensation of cyanide to make liquid cyanide at all here. (Increased pressures are NOT present at all either, for example.)


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Wahrheit]

These questions are getting too tricky for me. I suggest you bundle them up and send them to Rudolf.

What is there to get tricked up on? The relevant literature clearly expresses the belief (contrary to yours) that cyanide cannot so easily penetrate the skin.

At the levels necessary to lethally enter the skin, the worker would long be dead from inhalation of those same cyanide fumes.

It's that simple.

Don't include Wahrheit's ..cyanide-saturated bodies simply would not pose a threat to any workers' lives.. that one might be too tricky for him.

Your ridicule of a well-founded point only shows the failure of your argument.

And Rudolf well understands the need for a high concentration for skin absorption to become lethal. He states:

Absorption through the skin is especially likely when the skin has become moist, for example, as a result of sweating at work. It is generally advised to avoid sweating during the handling of hydrogen cyanide. In this regard, concentrations from 6,000 ppm[419] (0.6 % by volume) constitute a health hazard, while 10,000 ppm (1% by volume) can cause death in just a few minutes.[420]
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/7.html

I believe this point is correct, while his later statement that:

It should not be forgotten here that hydrogen cyanide is a contact poison. Transporting corpses, on whose skin huge, possible lethal amounts of hydrogen cyanide are absorbed, had required that the special commands dealing with these corpses had to wear protective clothes. Finally, when considering the applied concentrations attested to, the guards, like the special commands, would have risked their health.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/7.html

Is not true, but likely only originated from Faurisson's flawed argument, which he contradicted above, and which has been discredited here.

Stick with the chlorpicrin, Kiwichap.

[Hannover]

Wahrheit said:

I believe this point is correct, while his later statement that:

Quote:
It should not be forgotten here that hydrogen cyanide is a contact poison. Transporting corpses, on whose skin huge, possible lethal amounts of hydrogen cyanide are absorbed, had required that the special commands dealing with these corpses had to wear protective clothes. Finally, when considering the applied concentrations attested to, the guards, like the special commands, would have risked their health.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/7.html

Is not true, but likely only originated from Faurisson's flawed argument, which he contradicted above, and which has been discredited here.

Wrong, it has nothing to do with Faurisson. The need for gloves when using cyanide is well established:

"One of the things that cyanide gas does, it goes in the pores of your skin. You hose the body down, see. You have to use rubber gloves, and you hose the body down to decontaminate it before you do anything [else]"

source:
Bill Armontrout, warden of the Missouri State Penitentiary in Jefferson City, confirms the danger:[13]
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/1.html

- Hannover

[Wahrheit]

Wrong, it has nothing to do with Faurisson. The need for gloves when using cyanide is well established:

There is no question that gloves are used when properly using and handling cyanide, nor is there one for it being absorbed by the skin.

As Mr. Berg and myself told Kiwichap earlier, simple use of rubber gloves would alleviate his and Faurisson's problem with the cyanide on the corpses skin.

While the cyanide may have entered the skin (though unlikely much to do so, if at all), it would not have reached enough of a concentration to threaten any body-removal squads life, even without gloves though. The skin-cyanide would have to be absorbed enough by the corpse, and in high enough of a concentration for a lengthy period of time to be passed on to the worker, who must also come into contact with a high concentration for a lengthy period of time.

It's absurd.

The statements by Armontrout are within the confines of a highly-regulated and employee-safe US execution chamber. No risks are taken with anything in his procedures, even the minimal ones, as this one is.

[Kiwichap]

Wahrheit Absorption through the skin is especially likely when the skin has become moist, for example, as a result of sweating at work

Ya just gotta laugh Wahrheit. Are you telling me that 2000 Jews would not start sweating profusely when they realised what was happening?

And Berg, His science only extends to one Jew pegged and hanging on the line, merrily drying in the warm temperature. How about the poor sods at the bottom of the pile, no ventilation, no real heat... Death Traps!

I expect to see Berg's website change its name to -

Nazi gassings never happened, but they could have,

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Kiwichap still doesn't get it--so here are some more riddles for him.

Imagine a huge pile of several hundred thousand freshly killed Jews immediately after gassing. Kiwichap wrote: "How about the poor sods at the bottom of the pile, no ventilation, no real heat." Just what does Kiwichap think the temperature at the bottom of such a pile would be shortly after death, or even after a one-hour ventilation period with warmed air?

And the next question is: How could there be any liquid cyanide anywhere in that pile including the bottom, or on any of the skin of the victims?

Clue: there is actually a lot of heat in a pile of freshly killed corpses.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Hannover]

Wahrheit Absorption through the skin is especially likely when the skin has become moist, for example, as a result of sweating at work

Ya just gotta laugh Wahrheit. Are you telling me that 2000 Jews would not start sweating profusely when they realised what was happening?

And Berg, His science only extends to one Jew pegged and hanging on the line, merrily drying in the warm temperature. How about the poor sods at the bottom of the pile, no ventilation, no real heat... Death Traps!

I expect to see Berg's website change its name to -

Nazi gassings never happened, but they could have,

Agreed.
If the gassings story was true there would have been moisture everywhere; Poland's general humidity increased by an alleged 2000 breathing people crammed into an underground morgue like sardines, sweat and body fluids galore. To claim that gloves wouldn't have been necessary when moving the corpses up to the crematorium in the claimed few minutes (via an alleged & laughable 5' x 9' hand drawn elevator) is to ignore what would have occurred if the story was true.

The Zyklon-B would still be outgassing (for hours, while the laughable story says the doors were opened after mere minutes, thereby jeopardizing those other than the alleged victims), slimy bodies piled up all over the place would have required at minimum gloves and gas masks.

- Hannover

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Hannover's post above is interesting but it does NOT apply to victims of gassing from a Kreislauf gas chamber. After such gassings, not just in railroad delousing tunnels with Kreislauf, there would be no liquid cyanide to be found anywhere since the gassings and subsequent venting would have been carried out above cyanide's boiling point.

Review you high school physics.

The very idea that a body after any gassing (not merely Kreislauf gassings but room-temperature gassings as well) would be permeated, even slightly, with liquid cyanide is typical Faurisson nonsense. The hair might have some liquid cyanide, but that is about it.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!