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Diesel Gassings

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:40 pm

OK, RtG--go ahead and match the diesel engines you listed with the German tanks which you think used them. My answer is that none of them were used in German tanks. RtG is wrong as usual, folks!

As to the other part of RtG's challenge, he is obviously unaware of the fact that Germany made about 85% of its liquid motor fuels synthetically from coal during the war--by literally getting small molecules (CO and H) to bond with larger molecules. In other words, for the Germans, diesel fuel had to be made by a totally different process than America used. American diesel fuel is made largely by distillation to separate even larger molecules (tars and waxes)from diesel molecules. Gasoline is easier to make synthetically than diesel fuel. If RtG could ever force himself to look at my website, he might actually know something worthwhile.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby ps » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:48 am

@Rollo
Please read my post at viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5960#p41109
Any answers should be in this thread.
[Edited by Webmaster]
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:20 am

RtG is truly amazing--and totally wrong, once again! Hasn't RtG even heard of GOOGLE Search. It's actually so easy that even a caveman can do it. For example, just try: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q ... afe=images

The Maybach HL230 P45 was NOT a diesel at all. That particular engine was indeed the standard engine on the Tiger 2 and it was a gasoline engine (Vergasermotor). It was rated at 700 PS at 3000 rpm and used 4 Solex carburetors. Diesel engines do NOT need carburetors. ALL of Germany's tank engines during the war were gasoline engines. The Maybach HL 120 TRM V-12 was also gasoline-powered. Just look it up, RtG. You can apologize later.

My source for the 85% of all motor fuels used by Nazi Germany is the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey. Without actually bothering to look at RtG's source, I will venture to say that RtG did not read carefully and that the number he refers to is probably the percentage of petroleum that Germany got from Rumania as compared to other sources of petroleum. Most of Germany's motor fuels were made synthetically from coal--and NOT from petroleum at all.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:27 pm

The Maybach HL 30 PS engine was also a gasoline engine-contrary to what RtG imagines.

Porsche's Maus tank prototype did have a diesel but it was only a p-r-o-t-o-t-y-p-e tank that was never put into production or operation.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby grenadier » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:41 pm

Rollo's mention of the Maus prototype heavy tank was indeed priceless! :mrgreen:

Rollo then writes this gem!

The Germans greatest internal combustion engine of the war was the horse. Suvorov's book; "The Chief Culprit" is a good source to read on the topic.


You have not read Suvorovs book, fool, or else you would know that the German tanks were all gasoline powered! S drives home the advantage of the diesel engine used by the Soviets over the gasoline ones used by the Germans and almost everyone else on several occasions in his book.
Suvorov writes, for example, p.47:
they(the Germans) should have installed diesel engines(on their tanks)[...]


And on p.52:

All of Stalins enemies and allies had to get by with carburetor engines, which made their tanks extremely vulnerable to fires.


Rollo, has anybody ever told you what a babbling idiot you are? You must have the IQ of an ape! :bootyshake:
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Rollo the Ganger » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:11 pm

Berg is more than happy to take this argument away from the REAL issue and into an endless argument about diesel tanks, synthetic fuel production, and all that nonsense even if he's wrong on points here and there, because the real proof against Berg's argument is the one he attacks most idiotically and avoids most dilligently. And here it is, right in Berg's face!:

May 5, 2004
Tampa Tribune, "Jury Awards Family $4.4 Million In Death Of Trucker At Roadside"
For long-distance truck drivers, a sleeper cab is home, with air conditioning, computer links and a bed. But a month after Robert Bruce Nelson picked up a new 2000 Freightliner Century Class - described by its manufacturer as "the most evolved truck on the road'' - he was found dead after sleeping overnight at a rest stop. On April 23 in U.S. District Court in Orlando, a jury awarded $4.4 million to Nelson's widow, Kristine, and 22- year-old son, Steven. The jury agreed that the cause of Nelson's death was carbon monoxide poisoning, caused by a defect with the truck. Jeff Fisher, director of corporate communications for Freightliner Corp., said last week that the company will appeal. "We still believe the deceased died of natural causes." Freightliner is North America's leading commercial vehicle manufacturer, and Fisher stressed that no flaw could be found in the exhaust system and no similar claim has been made against its product. The diesel trucks are designed to prevent carbon monoxide from entering the cabs. Nelson's attorney said it doesn't matter that no defect was found. "The circumstances themselves [Nelson's death] proved the defect. No matter where the exhaust comes from,'' Nelson's truck or others parked nearby, it shouldn't be getting into the cab. An autopsy was performed by a medical examiner found a 67 percent saturation of Nelson's blood with carbon monoxide. The cause of death was amended to "carbon monoxide poisoning from motor vehicle exhaust.'' Nelson's family sued Freightliner; Swift, the nation's largest publicly held truckload carrier; and Interstate Equipment Leasing Co., the owner of the truck Nelson was buying.


Where does Berg get the gall to pretend he is an authority on this matter and is priviledged to give an opinion? Berg has absolutely no credentials to offer an opinion on the topic. Even so, what could Berg possibly object to in this case? Freightliner was found guilty. The cause of death stands and was determined to be carbon monoxide poisoning. Here is what the courts said later on the matter:

http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/unpub/ops/200413762.pdf

For all the world to see Berg! Berg realizes this ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE (there are others) totally annihilates his websites contention about diesel fume lethality. Berg knows like anyone else that all that would have to be done is to replicate the conditions and scale them up and you would have a lethal deadly gas chamber using diesel exhaust. ISN'T THAT CORRECT BERG?!! He even knows that the BS from PS about hot exhaust is nonsense too. The autopsy report doesn't say the victim was BAKED!!!!

You're a FRAUD Berg! Admit it. You are only fooling yourself.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:58 pm

Does RtG know of any other cases of death from diesel exhaust?

The Freightliner case is the basis of the following essay in the medical literature: Griffin, Ward, Terrell, Stewart: “Diesel Fumes DO Kill: A Case of Fatal Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Directly Attributed to Diesel Fuel Exhaust . . ." According to page 1206 of the linked Griffin et al essay: http://www.nazigassings.com/Griffin.pdf

However, in the medical examiner area, lethal CO poisoning from inhalation of diesel fumes from any make or model of on-road vehicle is virtually unheard of and contemporary medical literature does not report it.

Griffin et al is a source I use with great caution because parts of it are severely flawed. The most blatant flaw is on page 1209 column right where the text reads:

According to some experts, the overall fleet of heavy-duty diesel-fueled trucks produces well over 100 ppm of CO, or 0.1%, in their exhaust gases under normal operating conditions.

The simple fact is that 100 ppm of CO is equal to only 0.01%. That is an arithmetic error by a factor of ten by Griffin et al.

The tests on an identical make and model of the tractor trailer (Freightliner?) yielded CO levels between 360 ppm (0.036%) and 485 ppm (0.0485%). Those levels are all extremely low and, contrary to what Griffin et al claim, could never have caused CO to "accumulate very rapidly in the blood to reach highly lethal concentrations" or cause anyone's COHbg to reach 67% as alleged in this case. That is sheer nonsense--and not supported at all. If it were true, the population of NYC and most other cities would have been wiped out many times over, long ago.

According to one source which I have often used in the past, CO levels of less than 600 ppm will not even cause death after more than one hundred hours of continuous exposure, or anything worse than a headache after just one hour of continuous exposure:

Image

The onset of putrefaction seems to have been extremely rapid which suggests to me that the temperature of the cab interior, in June in Kentucky, was much higher than normal, or much higher than would have been the case if the air conditioning had been functioning properly. In any event, something other than mere CO poisoning was involved here.

If the case against Freightliner stands, the consequences for the US will be catastrophic. I suspect much clearer heads in Washington, even at the EPA, know already that the case is bogus and will not be so foolish as to impose new restrictions on diesel trucks and emissions. In Kentucky, however, going after corporate big guys is very much part of the local culture and local tradition.

I suspect the driver, Mr. Nelson, somehow, inadvertently, turned off his air conditioning and died of heat stroke. Perhaps he had even turned the heat on by mistake as well.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Rollo the Ganger » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:08 pm

Mr. Berg, WHY do you want me to mention another case? Does this particular one just happen to make you uncomfortable? Do the facts of the case inconveniently conflict with your stupid website? Could it possibly be that you would prefer me to discuss something other than this case because the facts of this one just so happens to bother you? Mr. Berg, enough of your rhetorical devices. It doesn't matter whether I can name one other case or a hundred. No Mr. Berg, I'm not allowing you to give me a moving target for you to squirm your way out of this. We are going to focus on this case and this case only. You are not an authority on this matter and your stupid website is certainly not a source to refer to when studying the matter. Your "opinion on the matter" is a joke. What expertise or credentials do you possess on the matter that even allows you an expert opinion? NONE Mr. Berg. None whatsoever! All that was needed to be brought out in this case was brought out by both sides. The Court ruled Freightliner GUILTY based on the FACTS. An appeal was denied. It's in your FACE Mr. Berg. The trial was SHOWTIME for both parties and no one wants to hear your amateur second guessing now that it is over. All your nonsense about diesel and gas powered tanks has nothing to do with this case or about your assertion of whether diesel engines were used in mass killings or not. It was a joy to string you along. Your other nonsense about New York air is ludicrous. It's a rhetorical "dodge". No Mr. Berg, It IS possible to kill people with diesel fumes and not at all difficult. It was for you and your moronic website to show NOT that killing people by diesel fumes was improbable, it was for you to show that is was IMPOSSIBLE!!!! In that you have failed MISERABLY!!!! Determined ingenuity can and will make the improbable happen. The Freightliner case disproves ALL your assertions and that was an accident! And the engine was idling to boot!!!!! I can't forget that ridiculous commercial you refered to on U-Tube with the person failing in his attempt to commit suicide by diesel. According to you and PS the BS the person's head should have been cooked to a crisp. Even those who kill themselves with gasoline engines, the exhaust is just as hot. Are they baked when they find them? I don't think so. Add it all up Mr. Berg. Your website is nothing but a bigoted rant. If you make an income on other bigots in the world donating to that stupid site then it needs to come to a stop. The sooner the better. It has no place in civilized society.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:35 pm

RtG wrote above: "Berg realizes this ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE (there are others)..." If there are "others,": perhaps RtG can tell us about them.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Moderator2 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:51 pm

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:RtG wrote above: "Berg realizes this ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE (there are others)..." If there are "others,": perhaps RtG can tell us about them.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!


No he can't because he is in the cooler for a month as he has broken almost every forum rule .

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Reinhard » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:48 pm

Rollo the Ganger wrote:Berg is more than happy to take this argument away from the REAL issue and into an endless argument about diesel tanks [...]


It was YOU who started this completely silly argument, a total give-away, with some German engines, which you obviously had googled some minutes ago, not being able to distinguish between gasoline and diesel engines:

Rollo the Ganger wrote:Then Berg says what has to be the most ignorant thing ever said: "That may have also been the reason for why the Germans never built even one diesel-powered tank in the entire war. They certainly knew how to build the best--but chose not to.".

For all those reading this post, including Jews, here's an exercise for you. Match these diesel engines built by the Germans during WW2 with the tank model it was used in:

1. Maybach HL 120 TRM V-12 Inline Diesel.
2. Daimler-Benz MB517 Diesel
3. VK 3002 DB Diesel
4. Krupp M601 Diesel
5. Maybach HL 210 and HL 230 Diesels. (Hint: "Put a Tiger in your Tank")


You've outed yourself as being completely ignorant. You've made my day by writing such a rubbish, Mr. Tank-Engine-"Expert"!
And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth. »Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.«
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Greg Gerdes » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:07 pm

Mod 2:

No he can't because he is in the cooler for a month as he has broken almost every forum rule.



I hope he does come back, I'm still waiting for him to answer the two questions of mine he's been dodging:


Two relevant questions for Rollo:

Q - How many jews are you claiming died of Carbon Dioxide poisoning in “homicidal / diesel gas chambers” during the “holocaust?”

Q - At what locations are you claiming these alleged Carbon Dioxide poisonings of jews via “homicidal / diesel gas chambers” took place?



I wonder why he's so afaid of two simple questions?

Oh-well, if he doesn't come back, at least we have this from RtG:


Q - Can you give us the name of just one jew, with proof, who died of Carbon Dioxide poisoning in a “homicidal gas chamber” during the “holocaust?”

RtG:

No I can't.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby ps » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:56 pm

Look at this: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5963&p=41146#p41146

There are to see all combinations of Otto and Diesel at all gaschambers, all powers and all circumstandes. But only in German.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:42 pm

I think PS has made a major contribution above especially with his linked post in German to this discussion of motor gassings and to holocaust revisionism in general. But we do need a good German-to-English translation which I can not do at the moment, and the subject matter and arguments must be simplified. I learned to my amazement many times over several decades that the vast majority of Americans (even self-styled auto mechanics) really have no grasp of the most basic concepts that are involved--such as "load" or compression ignition, as examples. "Historians" are at the absolute bottom when it comes to grasping technical fundamentals or any technical subject matter at all. That the Twentieth Century was the most technical century ever has gone right past them.

Nonetheless, there are some areas where PS and I probably still disagree. As to the relative dangers from diesel engines versus gasoline engines, I think gasoline engines are still vastly more dangerous than diesels, contrary to PS's view. We have at least one expert statement on the subject of diesel exhaust temperatures as follows:

Diesel engine exhaust temperatures are significantly lower than spark-ignition exhaust temperatures because of the lean operating equivalence ratio and their higher expansion ratio during the power stroke. [nearly double the ratio for gasoline engines]
from: John B. Heywood, Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals (NY: McGraw-Hill, 1988) pages 233-34.

One should also bear in mind that WW2 engines did not conform to any of the emission standards which have been gradually imposed over the last 35 years. In the good old days of WW2, gasoline engines ran very rich with as much as 7% CO in their exhaust generally--or even as much as 12% with only a modest amount of fiddling with the carburetor adjustment screws. Diesels, by contrast have always been extremely clean as far as CO with an abundance of oxygen in the exhaust as well. So, for any conceivable diesel gas chamber--the real danger is heat and nothing else except at extremely heavy loads which are not even remotely suggested by any of the holocaust scenarios. By contrast, gasoline engines produce lots of toxic CO (much more than any diesels ever could) with no oxygen left over either.

With diesel exhaust the great danger, and it would have been quite lethal as PS has explained, would have been the temperature of the exhaust--especially if the engine had already been warm and/or idling at high rpm's. With diesel exhaust, the danger from CO or reduced oxygen would have been essentially zero from any idling diesel--but the temperatures, well above 200 degrees Fahrenheit, would have killed everyone eventually--and probably in less half-an-hour. In other words and contrary to PS-501 (letter from Becker to Rauff), there would have been NO "Erstickungstod (death from suffocation)" or "Einschlaeferungstod (death from CO)." The same argument applies to all alleged diesel gassings a la Kurt Gerstein.

With gasoline engine exhaust, however, because of the toxicity of gasoline exhaust it is very possible that victims might succumb to the CO (7% generally) before the heat could kill them. This would be especially true if the gas was highly diluted and/or cooled before it entered the van compartment or gas chamber and if there were some open vents and/or air leaks.

I am delighted to see that PS is no longer putting any more emphasis on the significance of carbon dioxide--at least in his German link, attached above.

Friedrich Paul Berg
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Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Moderator3 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:46 pm

This is the English language version of the CODOH Revisionist Forum, posts in other languages are subject to removal.
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