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ONE PICTURE = 1000 WORDS

Postby ASMarques » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:55 am

*** THE GREAT GAS CHAMBER TRAFFIC JAM ***

This would be the one picture I would choose for a crash-course in Holocaust awareness for the intelligent young, lest they forget. Much better than collecting millions of buttons, soda tabs etc.


Image

This is the scale model of Krema II in the Auschwitz Museum, apparently placed behind a glass protection in order to prevent the small dolls being stolen by visitors.

Key to the image:

0 - Reflection of the window on the opposite side of the room.

1 - Underground gallery where many hundreds of victims at a time got undressed for the fake showers in room number 2. According to some Holocaust scholars, this gallery is also supposed to have had fake showers installed in it, just to confuse the undressing victims.

2 - Underground gas chamber, called simply "morgue" or "mortuary cellar" in all German documents and blueprints, in order to fool the future generations of scholars looking for the mysteriously vanished Jewish race. This is where many hundreds of victims were gassed at a time, in a round-the-clock mass murder industrial process by Zyklon B, the same product used to preserve human lives by killing lice (unless the witnesses are lying or very, very confused).

3 - Small elevator bringing daily many thousands of gassed corpses from the underground chamber to the crematories at ground level. Known to the fun-loving SS as "The Little Elevator that Could".

4 - Crematory ovens where many thousands of corpses a day were instantly vaporized, without even having to wait for some heat to dissipate before each door opening, contrary to the ovens in your run-of-the-mill crematory. Alas, the technology of the ovens was one of the best kept secrets in the Reich (unless they were ordinary ovens operated by miracle) and no one has been able to duplicate it.

5 - The famous chimneys, producing lots of smoke, contrary to the chimneys on your run-of-the-mill crematory that produce none. This is attributed to the twisted minds of the German guards who attempted to hide their crimes from the curious in the neighbourhood by using dense curtains of artificial smoke.

Now that you know which room is which, don't let anyone distract your gaze away from the image. Picture the gold-mining brigades, struggling through the corpse-scape, trying not to absorb any cyanide residues trapped among the still palpitating bodies, in order to perform their difficult tasks, such as inspecting body orifices, pulling teeth off, smoking cigarettes and eating sandwiches (according to the Höss testimony).

Then comes the most important part. Wait for a few seconds, take a deep breath, and picture the enormous round-the-clock traffic jam at point number 3, during the process of emptying the gas chamber of bodies, through the small elevator room, with or without (as you prefer) the folks next door waiting, soap in hand, for their shower.

Finally, ask your teacher to point the place, any place, where all those typhus dead were deposited while the live folks were being gassed in the gas chamber the Germans called "a morgue".

If you get a satisfactory answer, please let me know.
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Postby TMoran » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:14 am

I've thought for a number of years now that an artist redition of Holocaust scenes, by sketches or models, would be incredibly effective in forcing the average mentality to wonder if it could all be true.

The model at the Auschwitz museum may be graphic but not as graphic as it could be, and not showing the real gore, ala Holocaust tales.

There would be lots of blood involved. Show the blood.

Of course the gassings would have resulted in more bodies than the ovens could keep up with, thus the tales of how the bodies were brought up the elevators and piled in the main hall where the ovens were to await their turn at being cremated. Thousands of bodies piled up.

Of course we would have thousands of gaping lifeless eyes.

Then we have it that as the bodies were brought up they were sent through a room where the teeth were torn out.

Then the bodies were cut open in search for swallowed valuables, like diamonds and gold. Bellies sliced open, intestinal tracts torn out and slit.

Tales tell us the people would deficate and urinate while dying, not to mention that these processes occur after death since the muscles relax.

Thus, we would have thousands of bodies piled up with gaping eyes, jaws ripped asunder, bellies slit open and guts hanging out, covered in defication, urine and blood.

That depiction with something like - ARE YOU SURE THE HOLOCAUST STORY IS TRUE? written below.

Ultra gore is the scene of Holocaust tales and why not show it? The Polish model doesn't show it. You would never see any Holocaust propaganda showing it. A detailed depiction would be an arch enemy of the lie.
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Postby simon1003 » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:36 am

What would be a good tool to illustrate the logjam that would develop in the alleged gassing procedure would be computer animation, I mean one that shows people represented by white dots moving into the undressing room, then the gas chamber, tie this in with the actual capacity of the crematorium and you'd soon be able to see the many thousands of white dots building up outside.

Anybody her do flash animation?
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Postby Hannover » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:48 pm

In addressing ASMarques' well made points, I refer to #3:
3 - Small elevator bringing daily many thousands of gassed corpses from the underground chamber to the crematories at ground level. Known to the fun-loving SS as "The Little Elevator that Could".


Have a look at my thread:

'claim: 2000 'gassed Jews' per batch / but only one Elevator'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2378

I reposted my initial points from that thread below and invite our readers to read the responses to it.
Points to consider:

- Jews supposedly arrived in groups of 2,000 and were crammed into an underground area, Leichenkeller (morgue) 2, where they undressed.

- Then they were supposedly crammed into an adjoining Leichenkeller (morgue) 1, and then supposedly gassed with 'Zykon-B'.

- After the alleged gassing, the claimed 2,000 bodies had to be taken up to the cremation ovens above, on the ground floor.

- There were fifteen ovens to cremate the 2,000 gassed people. One would need another place to put the alleged bodies as there were more people supposedly waiting to be gassed.

- There was only one elevator.

Questions:

1. Was the movement of these claimed gassed Jews to the crematory ovens supposedly achieved using just one elevator?

2. What was the elevator capacity? How was it powered?

3. How quickly could an alleged 2000 corpses be lifted in one elevator to be cremated?

and:

4. Wouldn't exposure to supposedly cyanide laden corpses be a hazard to those working near the crematorium ovens?

5. And where were the 'not yet cremated' corpses supposedly stored in order to accomodate the alleged, next incoming batch of Jews?


- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.
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Postby Freeman » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:43 pm

From "Critique of the Pelt Report by Robert Jan van Pelt, 1999" by an anonymous author:

What is even more remarkable is the size of the corpse lift in Crematorium 2, which is quite clearly the only method of getting corpses up from the basement to the ground floor furnaces. The internal clear opening of the shaft is 2.8m by 1.4m. The shape of the lift is typical of those used in hospitals to move patients or cadavers, as it is long and narrow, rather than essentially square like a normal passenger lift. Neufert illustrates the exact type of lift, albeit one significantly larger with a clear shaft opening of 3.35m by 1.99m, which he describes as having a loading capacity of 350kg and being designed for one bed and three attendants.

Auschwitz inmate Yehuda Bakon described the corpse lift, which he saw in 1945:

The bodies were removed from the chamber, there was a lift there—actually it consisted only of boards 2 1 /2 x 1 1 /2 metres. (Pelt 292)

The description of the lift as being only of boards does not lead to the ready conclusion that it was of a very advanced design. Nevertheless, in the absence of the actual specification of the lift being made available for study, we can only assume it was the best available on the market. Because the lift would have required the same guide tracks and counterweight as the larger 4 person lift, we can see that the actual cab size was 2.1m by 1.2m, which is a two person lift, or one attendant and one corpse, with the consequent likely loading capacity of 200kg. According to the plans, the lift was the only means of internal access from the ground floor autopsy rooms down to the mortuaries, so the lift controls would certainly have originally been wired to be operated from within the cab, allowing doctors ready access to the corpses stored in the basement. Were those controls relocated after initial installation, it is important to bear in mind that they had to be placed either at the basement stop or the ground floor stop, and not at both. It is also important to realize that all lifts are designed not to move if their loading capacity is exceeded, as the strain put on the carrying cable exceeds the yield limit of the steel cable itself, causing permanent deformation of the cable and thereby making pre-specified floor stops impossible to maintain.
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Postby Bergmann » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:53 pm

I have not seen up to today a single proof for the existence of these alleged homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz/Birkenau, where 1.5 million people were allegedly gassed. But there are laws which prohibit questioning the existence of these gas chambers, and which penalize the doubters with stiff prison terms.

I do not comprehend.
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Postby Vallon » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:05 pm

Freeman wrote:Because the lift would have required the same guide tracks and counterweight as the larger 4 person lift, we can see that the actual cab size was 2.1m by 1.2m, which is a two person lift, or one attendant and one corpse, with the consequent likely loading capacity of 200kg.

The witness you quoted said that it was a box of apprximately 2.5 x 1.5 meters.

This was of course a goods lift, and would have been designed for higher loads than your 200 kg (which in Auschwitz would have been three persons).

The lift was of course designed to be large enough for the capacity of the crematorium ovens. The lift would not have been the bottleneck.
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Postby TMoran » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:44 pm

Vallon says or declares:

This was of course a goods lift, and would have been designed for higher loads than your 200 kg (which in Auschwitz would have been three persons).

The lift was of course designed to be large enough for the capacity of the crematorium ovens. The lift would not have been the bottleneck.


All sorts of bottle necks. Taking the bodies out of the alleged gas chamber and waiting for the lift to return. At the top, waiting for disecting room to clear so they get more bodies in to tear out the teeth and cut open bellies and take the guts out and then to inspect them for treasure. Then to take the bodies into the room to be stacked between the ovens and walls.

Maybe you don't know Vallon that the dimensions of everything are known by the plans the Germans left behind and totally published by Pressac, so when you try to say the lift was big enough to carry a large load you better check out Pressac's book and go from there.

Then too, you must be going by the Holocaust option the crematoriums were designed for mass gassing when you say the lift was 'designed for the capacity of the ovens'. The other Holocaust option was the cremas were built as morgues and body disposal on a small scale and then adapted for mass extermination. You see Vallon the second option was devised in order to explain the wacky set-up of what was. The lift was what the plans show, a few feet by a few feet, not to mention the so called eye witness giving the dimensions.

If the lift was designed for any 'capacity of the ovens' then the whole arrangement would have been different, like the gas chambers wouldn't have been in subterrainian cellars and the ovens on the second floor.

It would have been bottle neck city.
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Postby PLAYWRIGHT » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:50 pm

simon1003 wrote:What would be a good tool to illustrate the logjam that would develop in the alleged gassing procedure would be computer animation, I mean one that shows people represented by white dots moving into the undressing room, then the gas chamber, tie this in with the actual capacity of the crematorium and you'd soon be able to see the many thousands of white dots building up outside.

Anybody her do flash animation?


Actually, there is no reason why there cannot be an Auschwitz Computer Simulation. The mechanical variables are well suited to such a game. They already do this for many kind of factory operations, modeling input, operations and throughput. I don't have the skill to do it, but the number of variables in an execution factory are comparatively few, so such a game could be designed to run on a standard computer, rather than some big supercomputer.

Such a game would be an excellent tool to test the feasibility of the Auschwitz Kremas. Different variables such as weather, fuel availability, cremation times, composition of the bodies (woman DO burn better than men - Aristotle discovered that), etc. Optimal, realistic and probable models could be created, and like any computer game, you could have fun racking up the highest score. Can YOU run Auschwitz with the efficiency of a Rudolf Hoess?

But watch out! Don't overload the ovens, you might wreck the firebrick, and it's game over!

AND - look at the way the bodies are piled up against the introduction meshes beneath the chimney. Think this model - if you were to clear away the dolls - would have the dovetail bolts at the bottom anchoring them to the floor to make sure that the cages weren't wrecked? Or did they omit that detail - the same way it's omitted in the current wreckage of Krema's II and III? No bolt holes in the floor to be seen?
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Postby Bergmann » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:57 pm

They would have needed some sort of continuously running conveyor belt assembly to get the bodies quickly to the furnace room and/or to the outside for open air cremation, and to make room for the next batch of victims.
Tens of thousands of Jews were gassed daily during the Hungarian deportations according to the orthodox Holocaust story.
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Postby PLAYWRIGHT » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:11 pm

Bergmann wrote:They would have needed some sort of continuously running conveyor belt assembly to get the bodies quickly to the furnace room and/or to the outside for open air cremation, and to make room for the next batch of victims.
Tens of thousands of Jews were gassed daily during the Hungarian deportations according to the orthodox Holocaust story.


Supposedly, the outdoor cremations were done at Krema's IV and V, which are above ground, so they could just carry them to the pits.

But, for Krema's II and III, I just did a calculation.

2,000 bodies, at 3 bodies per elevator trip, comes to roughly 667 trips.

Give each trip a generously short time of two minutes to load, transport, and unload, without downtime. If you've ever seen how slow a warehouse elevator is, you know that's impossible, but I wanted to calculate on the short side.

This comes to 1,334 minutes, or 22 and a half hours to clear out the chamber and transport it upstairs.

That's without shaving heads and pulling teeth, or any backup of bodies up by the ovens.

Besides showing how deadly slow this operation would be - it also means that one of the best criticisms of Germar Rudolph's thesis is challenged. It's been said that the HCN wouldn't have had time to work on the walls of the Krema to create Prussian Blue, since they would have ventilated it out, AND washed down the walls.

But they would not have been able to clean the gas chamber for at least 22 and a half hours, just short of a full day. That's plenty of time for the HCN to work it's way into the plaster, and begin the reaction.
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Postby Bergmann » Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:29 pm

PLAYWRIGHT wrote:But they would not have been able to clean the gas chamber for at least 22 and a half hours, just short of a full day. That's plenty of time for the HCN to work it's way into the plaster, and begin the reaction.

There you go! Good observation!
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Postby ASMarques » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:35 pm

PLAYWRIGHT wrote:2,000 bodies, at 3 bodies per elevator trip, comes to roughly 667 trips.

Give each trip a generously short time of two minutes to load, transport, and unload, without downtime. If you've ever seen how slow a warehouse elevator is, you know that's impossible, but I wanted to calculate on the short side.

This comes to 1,334 minutes, or 22 and a half hours to clear out the chamber and transport it upstairs.

That's without shaving heads and pulling teeth, or any backup of bodies up by the ovens.


There is an important fact that "exterminationists" depend on, and that's very large numbers of people being gassed in the supposed gas chamber. If, say, just 20 or 30 people were being gassed at a time, the general picture might at first sight seem less preposterous. This sort of "occasional small gassings" that some revisionists seem to admit, wouldn't present the bottleneck problem, but many other impracticalities would be there, not to speak of the absolutely uniform chorus of "witnesses" (usually ex-Sonderkommandos that survived their turn in the ovens "by miracle") claiming that the victims stood in there like canned sardines.

And besides, if all those gassing tales were to be reduced to, say, a few instances of euthanasia by Zyklon B on terminally ill people (practically speaking, both lethal injection for the terminally ill and public execution for criminal cases would have been much more likely than going through all the gassing trouble), then that would be goodbye to the industrial "Holocaust" anyway. So they are stuck with all those thousands of bodies in bottle neck city...
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Postby Vallon » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:15 am

PLAYWRIGHT wrote:But, for Krema's II and III, I just did a calculation.

2,000 bodies, at 3 bodies per elevator trip, comes to roughly 667 trips.

Give each trip a generously short time of two minutes to load, transport, and unload, without downtime. If you've ever seen how slow a warehouse elevator is, you know that's impossible, but I wanted to calculate on the short side.

You obviously did not want to calculate on the short side.

In a box of 2.5 x 1.5 meters one could stack more than three bodies.
David Irving said: "We do know that as finally installed it had a specified load bearing capacity of 1500 kg."

But if they had transported only three bodies at a time, this should take less than two minutes. The lift was driven by a 10-horse-power electrical motor (Pressac, p. 367).
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Postby ASMarques » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:07 am

Vallon wrote:David Irving said: "We do know that as finally installed it had a specified load bearing capacity of 1500 kg."


Irving is probably quoting Pressac bona fide. Remember he always claimed that, for him, the "Holocaust" was nothing but a tremendous source of boredom. This, BTW, makes his current situation even more ludicrous. He never claimed to have any technical knowledge about it. As a rational being, he simply put together data like the absence of cyanide traces or any convincing roof holes in the ruins etc.

And what Pressac says is the elevator was made for 750 kg, not unreasonable at all. Then he adds "could have been augmented to 1500 kg by doubling the cables." One almost expects him to say before the begining of the next chapter: "hey, wait, maybe they tripled the cables and it's really more like 2250 kg."

Tell me, why is it that we never get to directly see the elevator door? That would be great, wouldn't it? I mean, if you look in Pressac and other books using the Auschwitz photographic archives, you'll see plenty of photos showing you quite clearly the cremation room, with all the ovens etc. However, all the photos are cropped near the door. In some of them you'll manage to see a tiny fraction of it, but you never manage to see enough to judge. The looks of the thing would be very nice, but alas, it's long perspective views of the room, with all or some of the ovens etc. When it comes to the whole door, it's simply drawings by David Olere.

And, BTW, the fact that Pressac trusts the crazy Olere, tells us a lot about his modus operandi. Olere even draws a sort of conveyor belt begining at the elevator door, but, guess what, there aren't any photos at all of such an interesting object. One would guess the construction direction would have liked to document a little better the building, but it's simply ovens, ovens and more ovens. No door, no belt, except in Olere's drawings. Maybe there were other photos and the Soviets lost them after 1945...

Notice that in the Olere drawings showing bodies being introduced in the room by the elevato, the door itself actually looks very different from one drawing to the other.
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