Railroad Delousing Tunnels and Robert Faurisson

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Friedrich Paul Berg
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Railroad Delousing Tunnels and Robert Faurisson

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 4 months ago (Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:37 pm)

I have claimed ever since my first public talk in 1983 about holocaust gassing claims--that the Germans had superb facilities in strategic places in eastern Europe for mass exterminations with cyanide gas, but those facilities have never been implicated anywhere in the holocaust story. Those facilities were large gas chambers which routinely employed cyanide from Zyklon-B to fumigate entire railroad trains. The fact that such superb facilities have never even been implicated shows that there must be something seriously wrong with the generally accepted holocaust story. The accepted legend makes no sense technically.

I thought I had a killer argument with my discovery of these facilities. I even provided pictures of several such large gas chambers straddling railroad tracks and included technical essays describing the design and operation in some detail. I expected an uproar of criticism from the holocaust believers--but it never came, at least not from them. It came instead from a totally unexpected direction. It came, to my total surprise and shock, from Robert Faurisson who insisted that I was completely wrong. For him, it would have been almost impossible (even impossible?) to ventilate the corpses afterwards, the corpses could not be touched and the ventilation fans would have had to be impossibly huge. He probably gave some other arguments as well--but I cannot recall them at this moment. In 1994 at the IHR, he even insisted as I recall from hearing the unpublished talk he gave there, that mass gassings with cyanide and Zyklon-B would have been absolutely impossible. For good reason, I believe that wild speech by Faurisson is still not published, not even by the IHR.

After some occasional private debates, I always thought I had dealt with all of his issues decisively regarding the railroad delousing tunnels--but, I would find later on, and again and again, that Faurisson would simply go around to everyone he could find to insist without my knowledge that I was simply wrong--and much more, and much worse. No doubt, since he had established himself as an icon of holocaust revisionism--many people simply went along with him without ever bothering to comprehend, or even hear, the other side of the issue. One of those individuals was Mark Weber with one result being that my answer to a rather foolish nine-word challenge from Robert Faurisson "Show me or draw me a Nazi Gas Chamber" was effectively suppressed by Weber and the IHR. The answer to Faurisson's challenge appears, however, on my website as "Gas Chambers for Robert Faurisson." http://www.nazigassings.com/faurisson.html

Just yesterday I received the following message from Faurisson indirectly through an acquaintance who shall be unnamed. I do not hesitate to publish Faurisson's letter here because I am sure it is a kind of public letter. The purpose of his letter is essentially to attack my arguments. My own mastery of French is minimal--but perhaps, some reader of this forum can provide partial or complete translations.

Bocage <bocage> a écrit :

------ Message transféré
De : Faurisson Robert <norton3>
Date : Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:18:38 +0100
À : --- <bocage>
Objet : Re: la bombe du Pr. Toaff

----, peux-tu, s?il te plaît, transmettre à J. Nugent le message suivant ? Je t?en remercie d?avance. RF

Cher Monsieur,

L?argument de Fritz Berg n?a pas la moindre valeur. Je le lui ai dit, bien en face, mais vous connaissez peut-être la violence de ce malheureux et sa jalousie.

L?existence de ces hangars pour la désinfection d?un train était connue depuis longtemps et je me souviens d?en avoir parlé, dès 1979, lors de mon premier séjour aux Etats-Unis. Parmi mes diapositives, j?en avais notamment d?un hangar pour la désinfection des trains (à Budapest ?). J?ai cent fois répété que gazer au Zyklon B un matériau mort (vêtement, objets divers, cales de navires, trains, hangars, églises, silos, bibliothèques, habitations, ...) constitue une opération certes délicate et dangereuse mais non impossible : il suffit de prendre un certain nombre de précautions (par exemple, pour éviter la propagation du gaz à l?extérieur, l?explosion, etc.) et de procéder soit à l?aération, soit à la ventilation du lieu du gazage, soit encore à l?aération du matériau dans lequel il peut rester du gaz. J?ai décrit ces procédures.

En revanche, quand le matériau est vivant, le problème devient redoutable car un matériau vivant absorbe le HCN ; le cadavre devient intouchable ; il est tout entier imprégné et imbibé d?un poison violent. C?est pour cette raison qu?une chambre à gaz d?exécution est si compliquée et c?est pourquoi, le médecin et ses deux aides doivent multiplier les précautions. Je ne vais pas revenir ici sur tout ce qu?ils doivent faire et qui ne garantit pas grand-chose car, même après tout cela, le cadavre qu?on va sortir de la chambre peut rester dangereux. Vous imaginez alors les dangers formidables que constitueraient des amas de cadavres, que ce soit dans un hangar, dans une maison, dans une prétendue ?chambre à gaz nazie?. Là est le hic. ?Hic jacet periculum? et nulle part ailleurs. On aboutit à une totale impossibilité pratique. D?où ma question de 1978 : ?Pour moi, ces gazages de masse sont techniquement impossibles ; maintenant, si vous, vous pensez que c?est techniquement possible, montrez-le moi?. Vous connaissez la réponse qui m?a été faite le 21 février 1979 : une plaisanterie et un aveu d?impuissance. Et, depuis cette date, j?attends toujours une réponse soit de ces plaisantins, soit de F. Berg.

Ce que ce dernier n?a jamais supporté, c?est qu?un Français, imprégné de culture littéraire classique, ait fait une découverte en quelque sorte d?ordre scientifique là où on aurait attendu un chimiste ou un ingénieur allemand ou américain et, plus spécialement encore, un ingénieur américain car aux Etats-Unis on avait sur place l?exemple de la chambre à gaz des pénitenciers. A ce propos, j?ai rappelé qu?en 1917 des humanitaristes américains ont eu l?idée qu?il serait plus facile et plus humain d?exécuter des condamnés avec du gaz qu?avec une chaise électrique, une corde de potence ou douze balles dans la peau. C?est quand on a voulu passer à la fabrication d?une chambre à gaz qu?on s?est aperçu des difficultés techniques. Au bout de sept ans d?efforts, la première exécution a eu lieu à Carson City (Nevada) et elle a failli tourner à la catastrophe générale.

Qu?aurait fait F. Berg si on lui avait demandé de pénétrer, soit tout de suite après l?exécution, soit des heures après, dans son hangar pour en retirer mille cadavres hautement cyanurés et donc intouchables ? Je lui ai un jour posé la question en public. Il est resté coi. Je lui ai dit : ?Etudiez un sujet que vous n?avez jamais étudié : celui des chambres à gaz d?execution dans votre propre pays?. Je me souviens qu?un Américain qui avait suivi notre conversation a alors fait une réflexion qui revenait à dire : ?Eh bien, voilà au moins qui est clair !?

Bien à vous.

RF

Le 29/11/07 0:43, « Bocage » <bocage> a écrit :


The above outburst from Faurisson had been prompted by a short sentence someone had sent to him as follows: "...as Fritz Berg has pointed out, Hitler COULD technically have gassed and cremated them all if he had wanted to. The Germans had huge hangars where they gassed entire trains against insects." For Faurisson, the unnamed correspondent had committed sacrilege. For Faurisson, the Germans would have simply been too dumb to have known how to do that--and besides it would have been almost impossible anyway.

The following images appear in some of my essays with explanations--but more pictures are available. With time, I will publish all of them.

Image

Image

Image

Image

The reason I am arguing about this is because it is damned important as a means to break through the hoax. Walter Luefl understood the importance of these gas chambers as a means to unravelling the hoax in people's minds--but Germar Rudolf, who certainly should understand the importance, had at a conference in Germany in 1993 quietly suppressed the subject rather than get Faurisson too excited.

Where on earth does Faurisson get the insane idea that "a train would take f-o-r-e-v-e-r to ventilate?" Where? Any idea? There is absolutely no serious evidence to support that kind of nonsense.

The same applies to Faurisson's claim that "the corpses would be poisonous to the touch." Don't they have rubber gloves in France? They certainly had rubber gloves in Nazi Germany if they ever had to touch corpses. They need have only touched the corpses many hours, or even days, later for unloading the cattle cars in some remote location after a lengthy trip. During such trips the slotted cattle cars (cattle cars always have lots of openings for ventilation) would have undergone additonal ventilation if that would have even been needed.

The Germans fumigated lots and lots (probably tens of thousands) of trains with Zyklon-B without Jews in them. Technically, it would have been almost as easy to fumigate the same trains with Jews in them. That some people have trouble appreciating that is pathetic. But, the important thing to bear in mind is that such a technology would have been obvious to anyone with railroad expertise in Nazi Germany. Zyklon-B advertisements such as the one above showing trains being fumigated with Zyklon-B appeared in many technical journals. The railroaders would have appreciated it especially if there was any kind of extermination program since railroads were an essential element of the alleged extermination program. The railroad cars had to be cleaned and fumigated anyway. The logical and obvious thing would have been to simply combine steps.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!


The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Postby Breker » 9 years 4 months ago (Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:07 am)

I don't know much about the Faurisson row, not interested really, but Mr. Berg makes a good point about what would have been excellent facilities for gassing Jews, if the Germans had really wanted to. The all too obvious liars are now left trying to defend the impossible.
Breker

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Postby PotPie » 9 years 4 months ago (Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:19 am)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:The Germans fumigated lots and lots (probably tens of thousands) of trains with Zyklon-B without Jews in them. Technically, it would have been almost as easy to fumigate the same trains with Jews in them. That some people have trouble appreciating that is pathetic.


Very good point, and only goes to further show the irrationality of this whole alleged scheme.

Breker wrote:I don't know much about the Faurisson row, not interested really, but Mr. Berg makes a good point about what would have been excellent facilities for gassing Jews, if the Germans had really wanted to. The all too obvious liars are now left trying to defend the impossible.
Breker


It certainly looks better than the ruins of Birkenau Kremas IV and V.
Exterminationists claim those buildings were designed specifically for gassing people.

I scanned a page from the appendix of Filip Mueller's Eyewitness Auschwitz showing a diagram of these two buildings:

Image

I assume this is an accurate representation of what the buildings are believed to have been laid out. The idea that these structures could have been used for gassings is laughable on its face. Nothing in the design of these buildings indicates that they would have worked well as makeshift gas chambers, let alone specifically designed as such as exterminationists claim.

:roll:

The reconstructed ruins of Krema IV:

Image

And the ruins of Krema V : http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Auschwitz ... uinsV.html

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Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 4 months ago (Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:10 am)

PotPie is quite right with his comments about the layout. Breker has recognized what should be perfectly obvious to everyone about the German delousing tunnels for entire railroad trains--several railroad cars at a time.

When I was at Auschwitz in 1988, I went to the railroad yard and station where I saw one large building straddling a set of tracks. That building might have been a railroad delousing tunnel during the war. My time was limited and Poland was still a communist country with tight military control of strategic facilities such as rail yards--and so, all I saw there was that one large building in the distance that might have been used for Zyklon-B delousing. I simply dared not get close enough to be sure but there is certainly good reason to investigate further. We need John Ball's help here, I believe.

There are many other drawings available of life-preserving facilities with photos, many in my own possession--but it takes time to put these on the internet. The normal publishing process is riddled with so many obstacles that it is far worse.

Thank God for the internet. The following talk that I gave in 2005 explains some of the problems that are being overcome with the new technologies we have available to us now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eictkM5h2JA

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Postby Kiwichap » 9 years 4 months ago (Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:39 pm)

I don't think you could gas train passengers in a shed built over a railway line or in a tunnel. The passengers would jump off the train and wreck the installation. You would need to build a veritable fortress, or chain every passenger inside the railway carriage.

If you look at Yad Vashem's 'The Auschwitz Album'. http://www1.yadvashem.org/exhibitions/album_auschwitz/10-13.html
The very first photos show that the carriages are not stock wagons as is commonly suggested. These are closed in box cars and not slatted, open to the air, stock wagons. It would not be too difficult to kick the sides off of a box wagon and escape. Plus the gas would have a tough job getting into a closed box car. The doors would need to be left open. Ventillating a stock wagon would be easy, no so a closed box car.
There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby PotPie » 9 years 4 months ago (Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:58 pm)

Kiwichap wrote:It would not be too difficult to kick the sides off of a box wagon and escape. Plus the gas would have a tough job getting into a closed box car. The doors would need to be left open. Ventillating a stock wagon would be easy, no so a closed box car.


What's odd here is that this didn't happen anyway. Stories of mass-gassings were rampant all over Allied countries at least as early as 1942 (actually I think 41,) as Butz showed with his research into the NY Times archive (and statements made by numerous inmates to that effect). This is one reason why people disbelieve in the idea of gassings to begin with: that hundreds of thousands were peacefully transported and taken into the chambers with little trouble.

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Postby MrNobody » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:28 am)

Kiwichap wrote:I don't think you could gas train passengers in a shed built over a railway line or in a tunnel. The passengers would jump off the train and wreck the installation. You would need to build a veritable fortress, or chain every passenger inside the railway carriage.


Don't exactly know where you're coming from there kiwichap, wreck what exactly......if you look at Mr Berg's photos you see large pipes & the ventilation pump/fan, how would wrecking those help?
Kiwichap wrote:If you look at Yad Vashem's 'The Auschwitz Album'. http://www1.yadvashem.org/exhibitions/album_auschwitz/10-13.html
The very first photos show that the carriages are not stock wagons as is commonly suggested. These are closed in box cars and not slatted, open to the air, stock wagons. It would not be too difficult to kick the sides off of a box wagon and escape. Plus the gas would have a tough job getting into a closed box car. The doors would need to be left open. Ventillating a stock wagon would be easy, no so a closed box car.


the Yad Vashem is the last place you should be looking at for "historical accuracy" :)
Boxcars were used for transporting livestock as well as freight, in fact since most European armies pre WWII were largely non motorized (Germany included) using Boxcars as opposed to Stock Wagons was a preferred method of transporting Cavalry units over long distances quickly & efficiently.
Europe (at the time) had a milder temperature in summer, so ventilation for warmer climates wasn't an issue like in other countries.
Since the Boxcars were used for transporting stock, they needed to be strong enough to withstand shoving & kicking by Horses & cattle, false partitions could be erected for livestock transportation.

Image

Check it out, I'm suffocating!!!! NOT
Does anyone seriously believe that bit of barbed wire could stop a determined person from escaping, note that the barbed wire is wired to the door handle & the whole affair isn't that far away for someone to reach through & undo the wire.

Kiwichap, if lack of ventilation is so critical, explain how the vermin are then eradicated?
I think Mr Berg is completely right, one would only have to count the number of these facilities in the Reich & occupied lands then calculate how many people could fit in them all to determine how many they could have eradicated in one go.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:36 am)

MrNobody wrote:Kiwichap, if lack of ventilation is so critical, explain how the vermin are then eradicated?


Good point, MrNobody.

Humans are much more susceptible to cyanide poisoning than vermin are. The railroad-gassing process could have been done in less time than it took to delouse the railcars, and with less of a concentration of Zyklon-B.

And what would be the harm in simply not ventilating the railcars, but simply driving them down the track as usual after gassing? The air from the train movement would ventilate out the gas, and unless the tracks were near any major urban settings, would be harmless to native population.

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Postby Kiwichap » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:53 pm)

Well, it was only an observation Mr Nobody. I don't really want to start discussing the likelyhood of something that, as Pot Pie said, never happened. We'll end up in 'Never Never Land'. That strange place where wishes come true.

However And what would be the harm in simply not ventilating the railcars, but simply driving them down the track as usual after gassing. I don't think so, not unless you wanted to kill anybody that accidently got a wiff of Hydrogen Cyanide. Its deadly stuff.

Are you sure Germans transported stock in box cars? I don't think so, not if they wanted them all alive at the end of the journey. For twelve years I drove trains including lots of stock and never were they ever in closed box cars. Its against the law here for starters because the death rate is always high. Cattle fart you know. Methane is the product. If it is not ventilated, they die.

Thats an interesting picture you have of a box car with the door at one end of the wagon. You won't see that on the Auschwitz Album wagons. In fact, I have never ever seen one. Common sense dictates the doors are ALWAYS in the centre of the wagon to facilitate loading and unloading. Perhaps it was custom built for a special job.

This whole argument is to show the Germans 'could' have killed lots of Jews if they 'wanted' to. Hey a bullet to the head is cheaper and probably quicker, and always effective without risk to the bystanders.
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:17 pm)

Kiwichap wrote:However And what would be the harm in simply not ventilating the railcars, but simply driving them down the track as usual after gassing. I don't think so, not unless you wanted to kill anybody that accidently got a wiff of Hydrogen Cyanide. Its deadly stuff.


Yes, but it must be in enough of a concentration to be deadly. Once the gas reaches a significant amount of air, it quickly loses its lethality.

This is why it's generally not regarded as an effective chemical warfare weapon for the battlefield, for in open areas, it's largely ineffective. WWI experiments revealed such, and is why no nation stocks hydrogen cyanide for battlefield purposes.

Aound farms or what have you, the Hydrogen Cyanide would quickly dissipate, and so therefore not "killing anybody that accidently got a wiff" of it.

Perhaps Mr. Berg can shed some light on how these train-car delousings were ventilated though.

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Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:07 pm)

At the end of my essay Typhus and the Jews http://www.nazigassings.com/typhusandjews.html are two appendices which give considerable detail about just how the railroad delousing tunnels actually worked.

I would be surprised if there had never been similar facilities at some time in the past even in Australia. In any event, they existed in more than half-a-dozen major locations in eastern Europe including Budapest, Posen, Zagreb and Roumania. I may have more pictures later today.

The second of the three pictures above shows the large blower inside the Budapest chamber, at the back, as well as the large supply and return ducts to achieve thorough dispersal and venting of the interior gases.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Postby Kiwichap » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:32 pm)

Wahreit, I don't know where this is going but one thing is for certain, you cannot drive a train with wagons exposed to HCN anywhere. These wagons were apparently fumigated in groups of perhaps a dozen, by the look of Bergs photos. Moving a dozen wagons in and out of a fumigation shed requires at least four people. The driver, the fireman and the shunter and the shed worker, you know, the guy who opens the doors. Shunters usually work in gangs of three or more. These wagons are put in sidings while the rest of the wagons are processed. When finished the train is assembled and on its way. Having a lot of wagons, ie, closed box car wagons, sitting around on a siding reeking of HCN is something nobody would ever want or have. On a still day its a death trap. The poor shunter has to go in between wagons to couple and uncouple. Cyanide is deadly, not only in a certain concentration, but also in exposure of lesser amounts over a longer time.
A recent study reports an estimated LC(50) in humans of 3,404 ppm for a 1-minute exposure; other sources report that 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes, 181 ppm after 10 minutes and 135 ppm after 30 minutes
And, without the Chloro Picrin (warning chemical/scent) you wouldn't know until it was too late. AND, if the Chloro Picrin was present, you would not be able to breath anywhere near the wagons.
Inhalation exposure to 4 ppm (26 mg/meters cubed) for a few seconds may cause some degree of incapacitation (5) and an exposure of a few seconds to 15 ppm (100 mg/meters cubed) can cause injury to the respiratory track. Exposure to concentrations above 15 ppm can result in lacrimation, vomiting, and if allowed to continue for a minute or longer, can cause pulmonary edema and possibly death.
I've had this argument before, but nobody seems to get it. The Chloro Picrin is not respirable, in any amount. Thats the beauty of the warning. Its stops you breathing and you run like hell away from the gas, and hence, you don't breath cyanide. If any person was killed with Cyanide including Chloro Picin, then they died of suffocation, not cyanide.
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby Atigun » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:00 pm)

Kiwichap,

Am I understanding you right when you say that the chemical used as a warning agent in zyklon B was absolutely non breathable in any quantity? If that is provable, it stands the entire holocaust claim on its head. Please elaborate on the subject or post a link to previous statements.

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Postby Kiwichap » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:55 pm)

Hey, I'm no chemist, we need a Rudolf. But let me tell you what I know. I was an idiot once, and played around with chemicals. I was actually well on my way to having every chemical there is. If I couldn't get it, I made it. I had a double garage for a lab.

The best way to describe it, that you may have experienced, is breathing ammonia, and you can't breath Ammonia. Your lungs won't let you. Chlorine is similar. Chloropicrin is more powerful than chlorine. It is a powerful lung irritant. The tiniest molecule of chloropicrin, touching those little fine lung hairs, sets off a coughing fit. You just gotta get it out, before you can breath again.

This is probably German 'creme de la creme' of intelligent thinking. There is no second chance in a cyanide cloud. So get out, and don't take any breaths on the way!
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby Kiwichap » 9 years 4 months ago (Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:45 am)

Wiki says: Chloropicrin.
Chloropicrin vapor is highly poisonous if inhaled. As a chemical warfare agent it is a powerful irritant from the group of pulmonary agents. It causes lachrymation, vomiting, bronchitis, and pulmonary edema; the lung injury can be fatal. Very low concentrations cause burning sensation of the eyes, which may serve as a warning.
Note there was nothing about scent. Very low concentrations means you didn't screw the lid on tight. And miniscule amounts are in the air. Your eyes serve as a warning. There is no scent. So a scent would have to be added also. I think the Degesh docs go into it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloropicrin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene

Chloropicrin is between Chlorine and Phosgene. Phosgene was the WW1 gas. Men died coughing their lungs out.
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.


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