The switch to gasoline engine exhaust

[offline Holycaust]

Recently I came across a series of videos on youtube made by sobe104839 who attempts to debunk denierbud's points in his "One Third of the Holocaust" video series.

The following video concerning the diesel engine exhaust issue is quite interesting:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=nTmH06jfJ9s

There seems to be a switch going on in the exterminationist camp from diesel engines for killing jews (which has been shown many times to be silly and almost impossible) to gasoline or petrol engines.

Apparently at least a couple of people supposedly involved in the gassings in the Reinhardt camps (Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka) testified that gasoline engines were used to pump engine exhaust into the gas chambers to kill jews.

Sobe104839 asserts that the testimony given by these few people which supports the use of gasoline engines is more reliable than the testimony given by the majority of 'eyewitnesses' which supports the use of diesel engines because these few people actually worked on installing and maintaining the engines while the majority of witnesses who claim diesel engines were used did not.

Ok, so they want to switch to gasoline engines now. Does this make the gas chambers in the Reinhardt camps and the stories of the 'eyewitnesses' any more believable? Do the gassings in Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec suddenly become more possible?

I'd like to get some feedback on what you guys think. I have read some of what Mr Berg has written about the red or cherry pink colouring of corpses of victims of carbon monoxide poisoning. Does even one eyewitness account mention this phenomenon? So far as I understand it they all say the corpses were either blue or green after they'd been gassed.

I'd like to hear what you all think.

Cheers

[offline Hannover]

see:

'attempted switch from alleged diesel 'gassings' to gasoline'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=53

The 'holocaust' liars must continue to lie to cover their previous lies.

- Hannover

[offlinegrenadier]

Diesel engines worked well for the hoax because they were undoubtedly used to generate camp
power, so they were running anyway and the exhaust would therefore be putting free waste to some sort of
use, i.e., killing Jews. A good story IMO, though technically ridiculous. Since diesels stink so badly
the holocausters thought it was probably very deadly and all but they really messed up because there
is not enough Carbon Monoxide and there is too much oxygen in the exhaust.

But if you are going to bring in a different kind of engine for gassings the story of using engine exhaust
then starts getting complicated instead of a simple expedient used without any professional engineering
contemplated whatever.

But it gets worse for the switch to gasoline exhaust because the producer gas vehicles were abundant in
occupied Europe. As a matter of fact even many military vehicles were converted to Holzgas out of necessity
as well.
The Germans KNEW about the toxicity of this gas.

It makes no sense the Nazis would have wasted precious and limited liquid fuels reserved for the military
since they could have just used Holzgas (producer gas with as much as 35% CO) instead.
The AR camps and Chelmno were all located in heavily wooded areas.

In fact, it would have been cheaper and easier to set up a Holzgas chamber than one equipped with a
Soviet/French tank/truck/submarine engine.
Holo fanatics such as Sobe and Roberto have tried to refute the Holzgas argument and failed miserably.
Their technical arguments are dumb and have no merit.
Here is one of the perls written at another forum by this "Sobe";

"And, of course, the Nazis would'nt want to have a murder weapon thatregularly leaks ultra-poisonous and highly
explosive/flammable gas."

This is no argument, since the Germans drove around in hundreds of thousands of poison gas vehicles
and if anything, fixed installations would be much safer.

The switch to gasoline also presents another problem; the victims of such a gassing scenario would be a
cherry-red/pink coloring which is present whenever COHb levels are at 30 percent or above, i.e., our scenario.
Problem is none of the AR camps witnesses mention that, they speak of blue, bluish, tinges of blue, pallor,
yellow, etc. They "noticed" such coloring right after the gassings so putrefaction is excluded.
They simply lied.

Internet hoaxters such as Roberto defended tooth and nail for years the dumb diesel story until a minor German
Holocaust historian came to their rescue, one Peter Witte. This guy combed testimony and found some who
mentioned gasoline engines. The most important are probably Fuchs and Bauer who were allegedly the "gas masters"
who did the set up at Sobibor.

It ain't nothig more than vague cherry-picked Hoaxster summations and even so they contain problems.

It must be remembered that the stories of gassings at the AR camps and Chelmno are not absurd only
on account of the alleged murder weapon but for many, many other reasons as well.
It is a theater of absurds from beginning to end.

More later...

[offlineMrNobody]

Lets not forget, Germans were Hung on the testimony of these witnesses, if the Diesel Engine story was good enough for the IMT & 60 years of Holo History then it should be good enough for the Believers to continue to defend, it's their lie & they're stuck with it.

[offline Holycaust]

Indeed, in terms of credibility the diesel gassings of jews belong right in there with the story of the feeding of the 5000 with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish and the parting of the red sea. The holocaustians stuck to this story for a good 50 or more years and had no trouble with the technical problems inherant, I really don't see why they didn't just stick to their guns on the diesel issue.

By switching to gasoline engine exhaust it's like they're giving up some ground to the revisionists and conceding that the diesel stories were and are just plain silly. What then are we to make of the testimonies of those who asserted diesels were used? Did they really not know the difference between a diesel engine and a gasoline engine? I would have thought the difference in sound and smell between the two could leave no room for confusion.

I have a question about the cherry red/pink colouration of victims of carbon monoxide gassings. Does this discolouration set in immediately or some time after death? If such gassings did in fact occur would the corpses already have taken on this colour by the time the doors were opened and the corpses hauled out?

I'm just thinking some exterminationists might try to argue that the testimonies don't mention cherry red/pink corpses because the discolouration doesn't set in until some time after death, by which time the corpses would already have been pulled out of the chambers and stacked on the cremation pyres.

Anybody have any medical info on when this discolouration sets in?

Cheers

[offlineMrNobody]

I think forcing the the Believers on the Cherry Red issues would be taking it into the wrong direction, it puts Revisionists onto the defensive, always having to show scientific proof rather make the Liars "stick to their guns" on the Blue, Green & Polka dot Purple discolorations that they have asserted to for 60 years especially if the same "eye Witnesses to the Petrol Engines" also stated the corpses turned these colors, again they would be caught in their own lies
Angriff!
Angriff!!
Angriff!!!

[offlineWahrheit]

Did they really not know the difference between a diesel engine and a gasoline engine? I would have thought the difference in sound and smell between the two could leave no room for confusion.

I also have similar sentiments. If they cannot distinguish between a gasoline and a diesel engine, just how credible are they? The two are vastly different in sound, which can be noticed by even the least bit interested lay persons.

I have a question about the cherry red/pink colouration of victims of carbon monoxide gassings. Does this discolouration set in immediately or some time after death? If such gassings did in fact occur would the corpses already have taken on this colour by the time the doors were opened and the corpses hauled out?

The coloring could appear prior to death. "Cherry pink" skin is known as a common sign for carbon monoxide poisoning for an alive victim.

On the other hand, many coroners have recognized the correlation upon their patients.

http://nazigassings.com/RisserBoenschSchneider.html

[offlinegrenadier]

@Holycaust

Visit http://nazigassings.com/RisserBoenschSchneider.html and read the Risser study.

The cherry-red coloring is clear in 98 percent of the cases and is to be expected whenever COHb levels
are at 30 percent or above.
This livor can be seen prior to death IF the COHb level is higher than 30%. Medical literature describes
such non-fatal CO poisonings as though the patient has a sunburn. I'll try to locate some references later.

Holocausters such as Jonathan Harrison and others are saying such discoloration appears only some time after
death as with livor mortis which indeed takes some time to fully develop. But that is a different thing.
From Wiki one reads:

"Livor mortis starts 20 minutes to 3 hours after death and is congealed in the capillaries in 4 to 5 hours.
Maximum lividity occurs within 6-12 hours."

The holocausters are confusing apples with oranges as always.

Holycaust also makes an important observation regarding the difference in sound and smell between gasoline and
diesel leaving little or no room for confusion. Especially in the case of Gerstein, who was a mining engineer
or something, and was very close to the engine room, whatching the entire procedure.

[offlineps]

" Especially in the case OF Gerstein, who which A mining more engineer or something, and which very CLOSE ton the engine room, whatching the entire procedure."


That is not correct. Kurt Gerstein was *not* in the proximity of this engine and it also not with its stop watch 2h49m for the time measured, until the Diesel started.

Gerstein history is completely invented, with security under obligation. Gerstein tinkered a history convincing for stupid Jews, which should be however in reality a complete discharge of the mass murder reproach. Gerstein report is a masterpiece of an SS-officer, who followed apparently its task, in reality however a fun to break in let itself.

Gerstein report must one sentence for sentence read and always watch out, which impossiblenesses he let flow even into smallest details!

[offlinegrenadier]

@ps

Yes, Gerstein was close to the engine room since he alleged to be inside the gas chamber building and to have
witnessed a gassing. I am NOT claiming Gerstein stated he saw the engine but he must have been near the engine
room.
Below I reproduce some of the crap from one of the versions of the Gerstein "report".

"...The rooms are five by five meters, and 1.90 meters high [...] The SS forced 700-900 people into 25 square
meters, 45 cubic meters. [Actually: 47.5 cubic meters.] The doors close [...] The people are to be put to death
with diesel exhaust gas. But the diesel doesn't work! [...] Yes, I see everything! And I wait. My stop watch has
recorded everything perfectly. Fifty minutes, 70 minutes, the diesel still won't start! The people wait in their
gas chambers. In vain. We hear them cry, sob [...] After two hours and 49 minutes -- the stop watch has registered
everything -- the diesel starts [...] Another 25 minutes go by [...] After 28 minutes, only a few of them are
still alive. Finally after 32 minutes, all are dead [...]"

[offlineReinhard]

Gerstein emphasizes in a very striking manner that it was diesel engines. Given he was a mining engineer and diesel engines were used in mines because their exhaust fumes were the least dangerous, it's quite obvious, why he insisted on the diesel engines. And the Jews fell for it.

I've written here about that issue:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3360

Gerstein [...] said a diesel engine was used. According to his "confessions" he was sent to Lublin in order to advise Globocnik how a more efficient way to kill people can be found and he was ordered to take 100 kg Zyklon with him from Prague to Lublin.
He describes, how the Jews are forced into the "gas chamber" (700 to 800 Jews on 25 m²). But the diesel engine can't be started (he mentions six times diesel, although he as a mining engineer must have known that diesel exhaust fumes are the least dangerous):

"[...] Heckenholt is the operator of the diesel engine [...] By the diesel exhausts the people shall be killed. But the diesel doesn't work! [...] 50 minutes, 70 minutes - the diesel can't be started. Captain Wirth beats the Ukrainian, who is supposed to assist Hekenholt with the diesel, 12- or 13-times in the face with his whip. After 2 hours and 49 minutes [...] the diesel can be started."
http://vho.org/aaargh/deut/HRgerstein2.html

So he managed to mention "diesel" six [!] times in this passage, to make it perfectly clear that he didn't mix something up or mentioned it by mistake, but that he used the term intentional. And as an engineer he of course could distinguish a diesel engine from a gasoline engine and as a mining engineer he knew that the diesel exhausts would not have been lethal.

So this is a very clear message that he had been forced by torture to make his alleged "confessions" - just like Rudolf Höß, who mentioned that the members of the Sonderkommandos "were eating and smoking" when they entered the homicidal gas chambers - thus making it clear that they couldn't have worn gas masks.

Here I've written also something on Gerstein's "confessions":

On the other hand he had studied mining engineering, i.e. there can be no doubt that he knew about the toxicity of diesel-exhausts. As is generally known, diesel engines are regularly used in underground mines, because their exhausts are the less dangerous. It wouldn't be possible to use gasoline engines there. So, it's very interesting that he insisted upon the diesel-engine as the murder weapon in the so-called Reinhard-camps in his "confessions". He certainly knew what he was talking about in opposition to his French interrogators.

The same can be said about the absurd figures he gave in his "confessions" [...] Gerstein as a technically educated man certainly knew how absurd they were.

In the German national monthly Nation Europa (No. 5/1963, p. 53) a certain "Dr. Dubito" (pseudonym) wrote:

It has recently been observed again and again that when people held in captivity are forced to make testimonies or "confessions" by torture, they have only one possibility to draw the attention of people not involved in the torturing to that fact: they alter names, dates or figures, which they certainly were supposed to know in a quite striking way. This is the case in the "Gerstein-report" with several names and dates and with the absurd measurements and figures of the alleged gas-chamber. Did Gerstein want to express with these amazingly numerous incorrectnesses and discrepancies that the whole report had been written by force and blackmailing?

[Entweder ist der Gerstein-Bericht das Produkt eines von religiösen und sadistisch-perversen Wahnvorstellungen verwirrten Hirns - oder er wurde von dem später bis zum Selbstmord getriebenen Gefangenen durch die Franzosen erpreßt.

Auf diese letzte Möglichkeit deutet vor allem folgendes hin: Man hat es in letzter Zeit immer wieder erlebt, daß bei Aussageerpressungen und 'Geständnissen' den Gefolterten nur ein einziges Mittel bleibt, Außenstehende auf den Terror hinzuweisen: sie verändern Namen, Daten oder Zahlenangaben, die sie unbedingt hätten wissen müssen, in auffälliger Weise. Dies ist im Gerstein-Bericht bei mehreren Namen und Daten und bei den unsinnigen Maß- und Zahlenangaben der angeblichen Gaskammern der Fall - wollte Gerstein mit diesen doch in erstaunlicher Vielfalt auftretenden Unrichtigkeiten sagen, daß der ganze Bericht erpreßt sei?]
Source: http://vho.org/D/gdvd_4/I4.html#4

It seems to be exactly the same thing as with Rudolf Höß (" extermination camp Wolzek", "they were eating and smoking, when they pulled the corpses out of the gas chamber").


http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3359

[offlinejnovitz]

Sobe104839 asserts that the testimony given by these few people which supports the use of gasoline engines is more reliable than the testimony given by the majority of 'eyewitnesses' ......

I'd like to get some feedback on what you guys think.

As regards "Sobe" I seldom pay much attention to arguments from someone who has yet to go through puberty.

Neither the testimony for gasoline or diesel gassing engines is reliable for the simple fact they did not exist.

It is pointless to discuss whether Treblinka had a diesel or gasoline engine when GPR surveys show the complete absence of mass graves at the site.

[offline Holycaust]

As regards "Sobe" I seldom pay much attention to arguments from someone who has yet to go through puberty.

That is a humorous observation but it is also an attempt at discrediting a person's argument by attacking the person. That's called ad hominem and it's one of the reasons we dislike the exterminationists' tactics so much (their abundant use of ad hominem).

It's better suited to the exterminationists. We shouldn't be using it.

[offlinejnovitz]

That is a humorous observation but it is also an attempt at discrediting a person's argument by attacking the person. That's called ad hominem and it's one of the reasons we dislike the exterminationists' tactics so much (their abundant use of ad hominem).

In this case it is simply factual, he is a teenager and not a particular mature or intelligent one.

Most of his arguments is simply repackaging pseudo-science nonsense from Roberto Muehlenkampf, for example the blue vs red fiasco for CO poisoning. Truely a case of the blind leading the blind.