Muehlenkamp accepts nafcash's challenge

[offline Hannover]

*3. While no photographs are required to prove that the mass graves actually exist, the three photographs from the above-mentioned series obviously show substances taken with a core drill out of Sobibor mass graves, which are clearly distinguishable from the light brown soil of Sobibor.

The light gray substance on the first two photos must be ashes of human bone and tissue.

The black substance on the second photo must be wood ash.

The white substance on the third photo must be either bone ash or lime.

My assumptions regarding the nature of these substances are supported by

a) their aspect
b) their context (Prof. Kola’s investigation in 2001, the essential result of which was finding the mass graves) , and
c) the absence of any alternative theory (at least Gerdes has provided none) as to what these substances might be.

- "While no photographs are required to prove that the mass graves actually exist ... "
Why aren't photos of the alleged mass graves required? They would be in a real court of law. He makes a claim of enormous mass graves and cannot show us photographic proof. Pathetic.

- Why must his "light gray substance" be "ashes of human bone and tissue"?
How about just ashes from a trash heap?

- "The black substance on the second photo must be wood ash."
Thank you & so what?

- "The white substance on the third photo must be either bone ash or lime."
Why must it be? Why not more ash from a trash heap?

Roberto goes on:

My assumptions regarding the nature of these substances are supported by

a) their aspect
b) their context (Prof. Kola’s investigation in 2001, the essential result of which was finding the mass graves) , and
c) the absence of any alternative theory (at least Gerdes has provided none) as to what these substances might be.

Aspect? In respect to what? Alleged enormous mass graves which he cannot show us?

Context? In context to shyster Kola's fraudulent claims as shown earlier?

Alternative theory? Well how about some facts .... there are no such mass graves as claimed, they cannot be shown, and

There's no reason to believe that they have done anything more than poke a hole in a trash incineration site.

We can't blame Roberto Muehlenkamp alone, they all resort to the same absurd irrational, illogical, impossible, and unscientific silliness.

This is too easy.

- Hannover

[offlineGreg Gerdes]

Hannover:

"They all resort to the same absurd, irrational, illogical, impossible, and unscientific silliness."


Yes, and my most recent favorite is this:

*...these samples... pertain to Prof. Kola’s archaeological investigation in 2001 - This means that if – as is probably the case – these core samples were analyzed to confirm that they contain what their aspect suggests"

So they were "probably" analyzed, and the analysis "confirmed" what "their aspects suggests?"

If the liar doesn't even know for a fact that they were analyzed, then how the hell would he know if "what their aspects suggests" was "confirmed?"

LOL!

So the question: They DID analyze the core samples – didn't they?

Remains unanswered, yet he's claiming that the samples "suggested aspects" have been "confirmed!"

Absurd, irrational, illogical, impossible, and unscientific silliness indeed.

And what could be more absurd, irrational, illogical, impossible, and unscientific than this:

“Hair, bones and ashes found on the grounds of the Sobibor extermination camp:”

http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_multim ... _1_web.jpg

“Hair, bones and ashes in the area of the Sobibor extermination camp:”

http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_multim ... _1_web.jpg


Priceless.

[offlineGreg Gerdes]

Although totally fraudulent, this is a very informative site:

http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/historia/index.htm


This is from page two:

2. The history of research

14th October 1943 was the day of the great revolt of Sobibór prisoners. It was the only successful revolt. As a result, a considerable group of prisoners gained freedom. Simultaneously, it was the time when the Nazi tormentors, wishing to discharge responsibility for their dreadful atrocities, began to cover up any tracks. In order to do it, the Nazi brought a group of about 100 prisoners from Treblinka, who removed all traces of the existence of the camp. Having accomplished the task, the prisoners suffered a similar fate as the victims of Sobibór. The act of obliteration was so effective, that it was only after 50 years that archeological exploratory drilling research pinpointed the location of mass graves and a part of camp infrastructure.

In the mid-60s, the camp in Sobibór was commemorated with a burial mound containing ashes of the murdered and a monument designed by Mieczysław Walter (Gacka-Grzesikiewicz 1983, p.51). In 1983 the territory of the former camp was transferred to the Łęczyńsko-Włodawskie Lakeland Museum in Włodawa, which has been responsible for this memorial site ever since. In 1993, on the 50th anniversary of the revolt in the camp, solemn celebrations were held, which provided the opportunity to refresh the camp in the memory of Polish and international public opinion. At the end of 90s, the Łęczyńsko-Włodawskie Lakeland Museum carried out probing excavation research in order to pinpoint the location of mass graves of the Jews murdered here. The research was probably a failure since no documentation related to the subject can be found either in the archives of the Łęczyńsko-Włodawskie Lakeland Museum, or the Lublin Province Office for the Preservation of Monuments, branch office in Chełm.

In 2000-2001 the proper archeological research was initiated by professor Andrzej Kola's team from the Nicolaus Copernicus University in Toruń, commissioned by the Council for Protection of Memory of the Battle and Martyrdom in Warsaw (Kola 2000, 2001). The result of the work was pinpointing the location of 7 sites of mass cremation burials, discovery of the remnants of 5 buildings in the area of camp III (marked A-E); A being the alleged blacksmith's building, B of unknown function but with a large amount of personal belongings of the murdered; object C is the camp well; object D is of unknown function; object E is the alleged remnants of the barracks with gas chambers. Besides purely archeological research, professor Kola's team conducted surface penetration of the territory of the camp, discovering numerous personal belongings of the victims and trees with remnants of barbed wire believed to have been the remaining part of the camp fence (Kola 2001, p.122). The findings resulted in pinpointing the location of the whole of western and part of northern and southern boundaries. Additionally, information provided by foresters of the Sobibór Forestry Commission, led to discovery of many trees located east of the railway line (fig. 1).

* Please notice the phrase: "mass cremation burials"


And this is from page 3:

3. Objectives of research

The scope of research activities planned for 2004 included the following objectives:

to locate the remnants of camp IV, in which the Soviet ammunition was to have been processed for the needs of the German army.

to verify the anomalies discovered with drilling method by professor Kola's team south of the object E, identified as the gas chambers.

to locate the course of the so-called Himmelfahrtstrasse (the Heavenly Avenue) which proved to be the last way of the victims, marching towards the gas chambers.

to pinpoint the location of the trees with remnants of barbed wire, which will allow to determine explicitly the territory of the Museum of the Former Extermination Camp in Sobibór as the branch of the Łęczyńsko-Włodawskie Lakeland Museum in Włodawa.

The research activities were financed and filmed by American-British-German team, commissioned by the "Discovery Channel" which is presently preparing a documentary film on the camp in Sobibór, in particular about the results which may be obtained with the use of modern research methods. It is mostly about geophysical methods, which are non-intrusive in character and provide archeologists with numerous relevant pieces of information, on the basis of different kinds of anomalies observed in the ground. Practical testing of the above methods was one of the main objectives of the 2004 research.

Just another fraudulent joke of a site, just like Kola himself and the Sobibor Archaeology site.


And here are the two others:

The Sobibor Archaeology Project here:

http://undersobibor.org/

And

The "Friends of Sobibor Remembrance" association here:

http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/indexa.htm


Not a single photo of a single "excavation" from all these alleged "excavations" can be found on any of these three sites.

Mmmmmmmmm.

[offlineGreg Gerdes]

And here is more from the same site. Check out the "master plan" page here:

http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/historia/index.htm

"Finding the mass graves allows transforming these holes in the ground into the real cemetery, although Nazi soldiers planted there trees to prevent the discovery. In our concept we will accentuate the form of the burial place and the stone surface around the graves in such a way that it will be well protected."

So where are these alleged "holes in the ground?"

Here's more:

DESCRIPTION OF THE PROJECT

The basics: The subject of this work is organizing a fragment of the Museum's area a place around the existing tomb where 7 mass graves with the remains of murdered prisoners were uncovered. The existing tomb which is a fragment of a statue's concept interferes with the area of mass graves uncovered while doing archeological work. Because of that and also having in mind the space balance between elements which limit the graves and the tomb we decided that the best solution will be the tomb's liquidation. Our idea is to create a kind of "yard "with a stone surface (a pavement) of an irregular shape with the protruding 40 cm high edges of the open graves. The line will be marked out by a ferro-concrete barrier running along the border developed by the archeological works. The walls of the "yard" would be created by the forest reaching the stone pavement. The only distinct element in this open space would be 7 ferro-concrete or granite plaques with the information in 7 languages about the events happened here years ago.

The interior of the "yard" and its elements:

The yard's surface:

The yard's surface was designed to reach every place around the graves. To minimize the hardened surface the shape of the "yard" corresponds to the graves' line. The base would be produced from cubes of stone (pavement) which allows keeping it clean. The pavement should be put in parallel stripes. The irregular fragment before the entrance and the one with a stone bench in the southern part would be produced from the basalt stones in different color.

The graves

They will be surrounded with the ferro-concrete barrier 20 cm wide. The graves would be sprinkled with sand from the woods' clearing and planted with a thin grass, the characteristic feature of Sobibor. The mass graves would be of an irregular shape, with the barriers of 40 cm high. There would be square plaques commemorating the murdered and informing about the graves placed on the barriers surrounding each grave.

The elements on the "yard":

In the middle of the "yard" there would be 7 ferro-concrete or dark granite plaques: 20cm wide, 120cm long and 300cm high cm each. They would be situated in the same line as the alley. One could read the information written there in 7 languages. The plaques would stick out from a 30 cm deep hole filled with sand (like the one on the graves). Apart from the plaques we do not plan any extra elements.
In the southern part we plan a stone bench (of stone blocks 45 by 45 by 200 cm each, joined together) 18 cm long.

Belzec all over again.

[offlineGreg Gerdes]

Oh, and please notice this from the same page:

( http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/historia/index.htm )

Sobibor: a place to remember

In the first place Sobibor is a remembrance place where more than 250,000 people were murdered. Finding the mass graves (ash-fields) makes it possible to create a burial ground or cemetery for the victims. The first thing to do is to make these places noticeable. Another element in Sobibor is the road they walked before they were killed. This road was called the 'Himmelfahrtsstrasse' (death road). In the forest of Sobibor this road can be presented but only on special occasions it is open to walk through. To commemorate the murdered people we want to build a small remembrance centre, where information about Sobibor and the people killed here could be found.

Ash fields? What happened to (quoting Kola himself):

“We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters.
In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay."

Flim flam. That's all this is.

[offlineKostasL]

Ash fields? What happened to (quoting Kola himself):

“We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters.
In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay."

It was charred human remains and remains in a state of decay.

Now it is ash fields.

Eventually it will become huge fields with dust particles or Holocaust oligo-elements.

But they can built impressive monuments and museums there.

They can write novels and make documentaries and films with Holywood stars.

These will educate people more effectively than ash, dirt and soil.

[offlineMrNobody]

http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/historia/index.htm

In our concept we will accentuate the form of the burial place and the stone surface around the graves in such a way that it will be well protected."

From REAL Scientific & Forensic investigation no doubt.

[offlineGreg Gerdes]

Hello everyone, I just had to share this latest bit of priceless keyboard claptrap that just spewed out of Muehlenkamp's tiny brain:

RM (via the VNN forum):

"As I learned from Yoram Haimi of the Sobibor Archaeological Project, the reason why Prof. Kola has not yet published a detailed and illustrated report about his 2001 findings is that he wasn’t paid by the Polish government entity that commissioned his work in 2001. So Prof. Kola is sitting on his findings, so to say, until this problem is solved."

I honestly can't stop laughing at that one.

It's been 7 years and the holocaust industry can't come up with the spare change to pay Kola?

LOL!!!

Priceless.

[offlineMrNobody]

Just like the Polish Government, I wouldn't pay for garbage either.

Whatever the charge against Poles in their role as alleged collaborators during the alleged Holocaust & what they are are alleged not to have done or could have done, the fact remains.

They too make money from the Alleged Holocaust.

Every person that crosses into Poland to visit one of these alleged extermination centers ejects money into the Country.
They fly in, Drive, in or Rail in which = Fares, duties, taxes & Fuel.
They eat, they sleep, they purchase goods.
It's all money for the Polish economy.

[offlineGreg Gerdes]

They too make money from the Alleged Holocaust. Every person that crosses into Poland to visit one of these alleged extermination centers ejects money into the Country. They fly in, Drive, in or Rail in which = Fares, duties, taxes & Fuel. They eat, they sleep, they purchase goods. It's all money for the Polish economy.

Good point MrNobody. I made a similar point on another forum just yesterday. Someone asked:

Why are Americans obligated to defend Poland?

And I replied:

Quid pro quo - the Poles protect the holocaust sites from forensic examination, and the U.S protects Poland.

There's no business like Shoa business.

[offlineMrNobody]

Yep, & just think of the never ending streams of Bus loads of German School children being shipped in on mandatory excursions to be Mind Raped by Holocaust propaganda while being relieved of their parents earnings buying trashy holocaust novels & McKremaburgers from the KörperKiosk.

[offlineGreg Gerdes]

I just though that you all would like to know that I've just got the OK to make THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE even easier for Roberto Muehlenkamp and lay claim to the $100,000.00 reward.

Please note that this waiver is for Treblinka and Roberto Muehlenkamp only.

For the purpose of helping RM meet THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE requirements, nafcash is waiving the following requirements for Treblinka:

You must prove the grave’s exact location and its exact dimensions.

What this means is - the only thing RM has to prove exists at the alleged "pure extermination center" of Treblinka is the existence of the remains of 8,700 jews.

That's all.

All other requirements remain in effect.

Now just how hard should this be?

[offline Hektor]

Did Roberto Muehlenkamp actually come up with anything that can be considered factual evidence for Treblinka being an extermination center or what did he do?

[offlineKostasL]

Did Roberto Muehlenkamp actually come up with anything that can be considered factual evidence for Treblinka being an extermination center or what did he do?

Is calling names considered as factual evidence for Treblinka being an extermination center?

Then yes, he got lots of factual evidence.

[offline Hektor]

So no factual evidence for massgraves in Treblinka or disposing of them?

Didn't the Polish commission find some evidence?


Some examples of name calling then ? Perhaps they are at least funny.