Is there any simplified info about the chemistry of gas chambers

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Slobomoto
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Is there any simplified info about the chemistry of gas chambers

Postby Slobomoto » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:29 am)

I've read most of Germar Rudolf's report, but Im not a chemist, and the informaation is scattered.

I see that proponents of the holocaust quote Dr Green and Markiewicz reports and articles as am authority. Now Germar might be able to destroy people using their work and point holes in them, but avarage people less savy are not.

For examples proponents claim walls have traces 1800ppm, and thus way over the limit of deadly 300ppm.
(I believe this 1800pm comes from Markiewicz study, but could be wrong)

How do I respond?

Now this just examples of many arguments holocaust proponents use. They have very easy soundpites and they argue in bad Faith, so I feel like there should e effort to make our own points to Counter and Hammer home

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Re: Is there any simplified info about the chemistry of gas chambers

Postby Moderator » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:37 pm)

Did you look through this thread?

Cyanide Chemistry of Auschwitz
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111

Thanks, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Is there any simplified info about the chemistry of gas chambers

Postby Otium » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:17 pm)

Lamprecht created a wonderful infographic regarding this issue that is about as concise as you can get.

See here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12736&p=93829#p93821

He also created two infographics on the 'Final Solution', which I unfortunately cannot find at the moment. Perhaps he will link them here if he sees this.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference.

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Lamprecht
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Re: Is there any simplified info about the chemistry of gas chambers

Postby Lamprecht » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:01 pm)

The thread linked by the moderator is full of great information, just read through all of the pages.

There's also a documentary video by Germar Rudolf: https://codoh.com/library/document/the- ... chwitz/en/

The rooms alleged to be homicidal gas chambers were simply unfit for the purpose. The lack of significant cyanide residue is just further confirmation that Zyklon-B was not used to gas thousands of prisoners in these rooms.

I suggest:

Auschwitz Krema II: The elevator / chute / lift - was it ever replaced/improved?
viewtopic.php?t=12891

Image
Image

Issues with Auschwitz Krema II ventilation systems
viewtopic.php?t=5493

Image
Image

30 Auschwitz "Gas chamber" testimonies debunked
viewtopic.php?t=12621

(book) Auschwitz: Plain Facts
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=14

Otium wrote:He also created two infographics on the 'Final Solution', which I unfortunately cannot find at the moment. Perhaps he will link them here if he sees this.

They can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12833
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Re: Is there any simplified info about the chemistry of gas chambers

Postby Archie » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:26 pm)

Slobomoto wrote:I've read most of Germar Rudolf's report, but Im not a chemist, and the informaation is scattered.

I see that proponents of the holocaust quote Dr Green and Markiewicz reports and articles as am authority. Now Germar might be able to destroy people using their work and point holes in them, but avarage people less savy are not.

For examples proponents claim walls have traces 1800ppm, and thus way over the limit of deadly 300ppm.
(I believe this 1800pm comes from Markiewicz study, but could be wrong)

How do I respond?

Now this just examples of many arguments holocaust proponents use. They have very easy soundpites and they argue in bad Faith, so I feel like there should e effort to make our own points to Counter and Hammer home


There are two separate issues here. First is the issue of what concentration of gas was used or supposedly used in the chamber itself. Second we have the issue of presence of cyanide compounds in the walls of the "gas chambers" vs the delousing chambers.

Concentration for Gassing: This is where the 300 ppm comes from. One of the early rebuttals to Leuchter was that for delousing the rooms are gassed for a long time and at a high concentration whereas to gas humans the theoretical minimum is around 300 ppm exposure for a few minutes. This number comes from toxicology studies but since toxicology is concerned with reducing risk their numbers tend to be conservative and would probably not be adequate for an execution. American gas chambers used a concentration of at least 3,000 ppm, over ten times more than the hypothetical 300 ppm. And even with this high concentration, people usually took about 9-10 minutes to die with some surviving over 15 minutes. Many of the Holocaust testimonies allege very fast execution times like 3 minutes which is not possible, especially in a huge room with a small amount of gas. Moreover there's no reason to assume the Germans would have used an absolute minimum concentration and in fact the testimonies available usually say they used several cans of Zyklon which would not suggest a low concentration. Some hoaxers have not bothered with this 300 ppm argument and have opted instead to use different arguments.

Concentration in the walls: There have been several samples taken. Most notably we have Leuchter and Rudolf and some Polish studies like the Markiewicz one. Leuchter and Rudolf found levels of 1,000+ ppm in the delousing chambers and very low levels (<10 ppm) in the "gas chambers." Markiewicz may have assumed 1800 ppm concentration for gassing but they most definitely did NOT find 1800 ppm cyanide concentration in the walls. What Markiewicz et al actually did was exclude Prussian blue from the tests completely so that they could show the delousing chambers and the gas chambers both with "similar," trace amounts of cyanide. This is nothing but a sheer fraud.

Markiewicz Report: https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml

The undertaking of chemical analysis had to be preceded by careful consideration. The revisionists focussed their attention almost exclusively on Prussian blue, which is of intense dark-blue colour and characterized by exceptional fastness. This dye occurs, especially in the form of stains, on the outer bricks of the walls of the former bath/delousing house in the area of the Birkenau camp. It is hard to imagine the chemical reactions and physicochemical processes that could have led to the formation of Prussian blue in that place. Brick, unlike other building materials, very feebly absorbs hydrogen cyanide, it sometimes does not even absorb it at all. Besides, iron occurring in it is at the third oxidation state, whereas bivalent iron ions are indispensable for the formation of the [Fe(CN)6]-4 ion, which is the precursor of Prussian blue. This ion is, besides, sensitive to the sunlight.

J. Bailer (1) writes in the collective work "Amoklauf gegen die Wirklichkeit" that the formation of Prussian blue in bricks is simply improbable; however, he takes into consideration the possibility that the walls of the delousing room were coated with this dye as a paint. It should be added that this blue coloration does not appear on the walls of all the delousing rooms.

We decided therefore to determine the cyanide ions using a method that does not induce the breakdown of the composed ferrum cyanide complex (this is the blue under discussion) and which fact we had tested before on an appropriate standard sample.


I would second Lamprecht's recommendation of Germar's video summary of his work. I'll also mention that the CODOH bookstore sells a short book by "Cyrus Cox" called Auschwitz: Forensically Examined which is intended to be a brief, simplified presentation of the technical issues. You can get the pdf for a couple of dollars.

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Re: Is there any simplified info about the chemistry of gas chambers

Postby Hannover » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:55 pm)

The simplest info about the "gas chambers" is two fold:

1. Scientifically they could not have done what is absurdly alleged. Utterly impossible.

2. 4 million Jews and millions of "others" are laughably claimed to have been gassed.
Yet there are no mass graves to be seen which back up that silliness. None.
Such 'mass graves' are claimed to exist in known locations. But they do not exist.

In fact, the the entire "holocaust' fraud claims 6M Jews & 5 million others / 11M. Which is equal to the city of London, England.
Yet there are no mass graves to support the scam.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Is there any simplified info about the chemistry of gas chambers

Postby Hektor » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:49 pm)

Archie wrote:
Slobomoto wrote:....
Concentration for Gassing: This is where the 300 ppm comes from. One of the early rebuttals to Leuchter was that for delousing the rooms are gassed for a long time and at a high concentration whereas to gas humans the theoretical minimum is around 300 ppm exposure for a few minutes. This number comes from toxicology studies but since toxicology is concerned with reducing risk their numbers tend to be conservative and would probably not be adequate for an execution. American gas chambers used a concentration of at least 3,000 ppm, over ten times more than the hypothetical 300 ppm. And even with this high concentration, people usually took about 9-10 minutes to die with some surviving over 15 minutes. Many of the Holocaust testimonies allege very fast execution times like 3 minutes which is not possible, especially in a huge room with a small amount of gas. Moreover there's no reason to assume the Germans would have used an absolute minimum concentration and in fact the testimonies available usually say they used several cans of Zyklon which would not suggest a low concentration. Some hoaxers have not bothered with this 300 ppm argument and have opted instead to use different arguments.

Concentration in the walls: There have been several samples taken. Most notably we have Leuchter and Rudolf and some Polish studies like the Markiewicz one. Leuchter and Rudolf found levels of 1,000+ ppm in the delousing chambers and very low levels (<10 ppm) in the "gas chambers." Markiewicz may have assumed 1800 ppm concentration for gassing but they most definitely did NOT find 1800 ppm cyanide concentration in the walls. What Markiewicz et al actually did was exclude Prussian blue from the tests completely so that they could show the delousing chambers and the gas chambers both with "similar," trace amounts of cyanide. This is nothing but a sheer fraud.
....

That sums up pretty well why the "But you only need 300 ppm to kill humans" is intellectually dishonest. The "required to kill" is a totally different parameter than the "risk to get killed" figure for humans. Any required to kill parameter / variable would essentially have to be an overkill, while safety parameters are minimum threshold. But to understand that a bit more of thinking is required, which makes it easy to persuade the gullible via equating different types of categories in an argument.

Also material exposed to acidic gas would enrich over time. Even a small concentration of HCl would yield high amounts of Chlorides over time, far higher than the concentration... So the argument also shows other deficiencies in understanding basic chemistry. Hence it is often best to turn around the argument and ask them for actual forensic proof of those buildings being used as homicidal gas chambers.... That's something the pushers of the Holocaust narrative always avoided and serious forensic evidence was completely neglected in any of the trials against former camp staff. "Eye witness testimony" had to trump it there, although most people involved didn't even know about homicidal gassings first hand, while some report of rumours.

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Re: Is there any simplified info about the chemistry of gas chambers

Postby Lamprecht » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:28 am)

Slobomoto wrote:For examples proponents claim walls have traces 1800ppm, and thus way over the limit of deadly 300ppm.
(I believe this 1800pm comes from Markiewicz study, but could be wrong)

How do I respond?

This argument has been addressed previously. See my post in the following thread (which in its entirety is a good read):

Myles Power - "Debunking Holocaust Denial" video series
viewtopic.php?t=12438&start=15#p92261
Lamprecht wrote:Myles also brought up the old "it takes less cyanide to kill a human" canard.
Myles:
A lot of denialists out there say that this is the proof that no one was gassed in Auschwitz because in certain gas chambers they can't see this blue color. Now there are many reasons why we don't physically see it. First reason is that it takes not that much hydrogen cyanide to kill a human, about 300 parts per million as opposed to about 16 and a half thousand parts per million to kill insects and bugs that was happening these deal absent chambers so the concentration was a lot higher here. Another reason is because the high concentration of hydrogen cyanide in this room was here for a lot longer. It only took a couple of minutes to kill hundreds of people in one go but it took hours and hours and hours in rooms like this


This has been addressed here:
Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more
viewtopic.php?t=267

Hannover gave a good summary:
Hannover wrote:Trtsk has brought this topic up again, so here it is. Comments invited.

more:

This assertion completely ignores the numbers of Jews allegedly gassed at one time in a large underground space and the alleged time lengths, which are said to have been mere minutes....all of which would have required massive amounts of Zyklon-B and necessitated vast amounts of cyanide residue, but not the case.

There is also a deceptive standard of measurement being used, not unusual for the so called "holocaust" Industry. I have listed some urls for info. and outlined some points, parts A. & B. ...read on.

A. quick points:

from Germar Rudolf, master chemist:

"the minimum amount of Zyklon B to be introduced in these rooms would have been in the order of magnitude of ten times the amount normally used for delousing procedures"


- This false argument, "it takes more cyanide to kill insects than it does humans, hence low HCN residue in the alleged gas chambers" is refuted by Germar Rudolf here:
http://archive.is/h444S

- Rudolf also destroys Robert Jan Van Pelt (fraudulent Auschwitz 'expert') and the false assertions about amounts of HCN found in the laughable, alleged 'gas chambers': http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

B. The argument is based on a false measurement standard, some points on that:

the false argument from:
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leu ... aq-04.html
"But - HCN is far more effective on warm-blooded animals (including humans) than on insects, so the period of exposure to HCN is far longer for delousing clothes than that required for homicidal gassings, and a much lower concentration is necessary to kill people instead of insects.
A concentration of up to 16,000 ppm (parts per million) is sometimes used, with exposure times of up to 72 hours, to kill insects, but as little as 300 ppm will cause death in humans within fifteen minutes or so."

false argument exposed:
Two different measurement standards are being used, with the pretense there is only one measurement standard.
The measurement standard used for the HCN killing insects is the measurement for killing every single insect. In other words, if there are a thousand insects on a piece of cloth or room, the measurement is for killing every single one of those thousand insects.

With the measurement for humans, on the other hand, what's used is the measurement that can kill a single human being. This measurement is extremely low, because a small percentage of humans have a very low tolerance. In other words, if there were a thousand people in a room, that concentration could kill one person out of those thousand.

The toxicological literature gives two main threshold values of poisonous substances, from Rudolf - http://archive.is/h444S :
"The lethal dose 100%, LD100, which gives the concentration or quantity of poison required to kill all (100%) individuals of an observed species. This value is used to make sure that all individuals are successfully killed.
The lethal dose 1%, LD1, which gives the concentration or quantity of poison required to kill 1% of all individuals of an observed species. This value is used to mark a threshold beyond which an exposition to that poison is definitively dangerous."


The argument that a higher concentration of cyanide was needed to kill lice than humans is a canard, and now you can see how deceptive their argument is. They use two different measurement standards for humans and lice, but at 1st glance you think they are using the same standard.

- Hannover
(fixed a dead link)



See also:


Richard Green and the Toxicology of Auschwitz
viewtopic.php?t=7664
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


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