the 'vergasungskeller' note

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Sailor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:54 pm
Location: California

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:59 pm)

Yes:
When considering the volume of the two morgues (morgue 1÷504 m3; morgue 2÷900 m3), the results for the alleged, planned 'gas chambers' (4,800/504 =) are approximately 9.5 air exchanges per hour and for the undressing room (10,000/900 =) approximately 11 air exchanges per hour. Does anybody seriously believe that, at the end of May 1943, i.e., two months after the beginning of the alleged mass murders, it was assumed that the 'gas chambers' would need less ventilation than the undressing rooms, or even less than the dissecting rooms, laying out rooms and wash rooms, the ventilation efficiency of which were even greater-approximately 131/3 air exchanges per hour?

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html#toc

fge

User avatar
aemathisphd
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:52 pm
Location: Philadelphia, Pa.

Postby aemathisphd » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:43 am)

Sailor wrote:Yes:
When considering the volume of the two morgues (morgue 1÷504 m3; morgue 2÷900 m3), the results for the alleged, planned 'gas chambers' (4,800/504 =) are approximately 9.5 air exchanges per hour and for the undressing room (10,000/900 =) approximately 11 air exchanges per hour. Does anybody seriously believe that, at the end of May 1943, i.e., two months after the beginning of the alleged mass murders, it was assumed that the 'gas chambers' would need less ventilation than the undressing rooms, or even less than the dissecting rooms, laying out rooms and wash rooms, the ventilation efficiency of which were even greater-approximately 131/3 air exchanges per hour?

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html#toc


To answer Rudolf's question, the answer is "yes."

If the morgues with the lesser ventilation were indeed gas chambers, and the morgues with the greater ventilation were not, then it still stands to reason that gas chambers would be exposed to much lower concentrations of HCN than they would during fumigations, and for much shorter periods of time. Less ventilation would be needed for lower concentrations of gas.

There is also the issue of the washing of the gas chambers, by the way. Dead people's bowels and bladders will eliminate, and in order to keep the gas chambers clean by any estimation, they would need to be washed after every use, as SKs have testified.

This would necessarily lower the HCN concentration on the chamber walls also.

a.m.
Those that would sacrifice freedom for temporary security deserve neither.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9839
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:57 am)

aemathisphd is wrong again:

So called Auschwitz 'expert', Robert Jan Van Pelt, claims that the absurd, alleged 'gas chambers' had 'powerful ventilation systems'.

But curiously aemathisphd, in order to force fit the bizarre story, now says these alleged gas chambers had less ventilation than the undressing rooms, less than the dissecting rooms, less than the laying out rooms, and less than the wash rooms. Yeah, sure. The story is laughable.

Would aemathisphd please give the names of those who said the 'gas chambers' were washed, exactly what they said, and source?

I await his response.

Regards, Hannover
Last edited by Hannover on Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Scott
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 7:00 am

Postby Scott » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:56 pm)

aemathisphd wrote:This would necessarily lower the HCN concentration on the chamber walls also.

Maybe, but the increased humidity should encourage greater blue staining. There is none.

As far as the ventilation of LKI and II. The alleged gaschamber (LKI) had slightly less than the undressing-cellar but not by much, about the minimum for a high-use morgues in either case, around 10 exchanges per hour. The fumigation cubicles, however, had 70 exchanges per hour and the railroad boxcar fumigators had about 30.

Whoever concocted the insertion column theory just did not understand how the fumigation hardware worked, which was available to the SS from Degesch in 1941, let alone known to Kammler and his engineers when they designed the expansion of the crematoria capacity in 1942 as a result of the epidemics, which shut down the camp for two months.

Here is a picture of Bischoff, Kammler, Höß, Himmler, and Schmauser inspecting Auschwitz on 17.Juli.42. Jochen Peiper (Hitler's adjutant of Malmedy Massacre fame) is behind the Reichsführer and to his right.

:D

Image

User avatar
spaceboy
Member
Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:04 am

Re: the 'vergasungskeller' note

Postby spaceboy » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:38 pm)

I've been reading different revisionist opinions online regarding the vergasungskeller note.

I came across an article called Important [Auschwitz] Documents Found in Moscow Archives from The Journal of Historical Review, November/December 1995 (Vol. 15, No. 6), page 36.

Here's the excerpt that caught my eye:

All the same, they did find documents that conflict with the orthodox extermination story. One refers specifically to a "delousing chamber for crematory II" ("Entlausungskammer für ein Krematorium") in Birkenau. This document apparently clarifies the real meaning of one or more of Pressac's so-called "criminal traces," as well as of the widely-cited letter of Jan. 29, 1943 that refers to a "gassing cellar" ("Vergasungskeller") in Birkenau crematory II. It is often claimed that this must be a reference to a homicidal gas chamber. (See A. Butz' "Some Thoughts on Pressac's Opus," in the May-June 1993 Journal, pp. 27-31, 35 [n. 23].) This long-suppressed German document, which was overlooked by Fleming and Pressac, suggests instead that this "gassing cellar" was installed to save life, by killing typhus-bearing lice.


Is this document about a delousing chamber for crematory II online somewhere? This was from 1995, so do revisionists still think this "Entlausungskammer für ein Krematorium" is synonymous with the "Vergasungskeller"?

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re:

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:52 pm)

Sailor wrote:Mattogno tries to explain this in “Die Leichenkeller der Krematorien von Birkenau im Lichte der Dokumente” (The morgues of the crematoria of Birkenau in the light of the documents) http://vho.org/VffG/2003/3/Mattogno357-365.html


Here in English: http://codoh.com/node/1713
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
spaceboy
Member
Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:04 am

Re: the 'vergasungskeller' note

Postby spaceboy » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:09 pm)

Thanks for the link.

I see the document from April 13, 1943 that mentions "2 Topf disinfestation ovens for crematorium II at PoW camp, Auschwitz."

Image



Didn't see one that specifially mentioned " Entlausungskammer für ein Krematorium" though? Unless I overlooked.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: the 'vergasungskeller' note

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:49 am)

aemathisphd wrote:.....

- The document was written two months before the ovens became operative and the elevator was installed, so it is unlikely that the document refers to killing, because the alleged victims would have had to have been carried up the stairs and taken to another crematorium for body disposal, which does not make sense. IF there was an operational homicidal facility, why not bring the victims there to begin with?


Untrue. From the memo itself:

Krematorium II has been completed but for minor details, thanks to employing all available forces, despite enormous difficulties and freezing weather, using day and night shifts. The furnaces have been lit in the presence of Herr Chief Engineer Prufer of the firm responsible for their construction, Topf & Sons of Erfurt, and they function perfectly. Because of the frost, it has not yet been possible to remove the formwork from the ceiling of the corpse cellar. This is of no consequence, however, as the gassing cellar can be used to this end.


Whoops!
No, oops to you. That document actually contradicts the notion that the "Vergasungskeller" is the gas chamber, since the room exterminationists claim was a gas chamber ("corpse cellar") hasn't been finished.
...


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests