the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims

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the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims

Postby Hannover » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:06 pm)

Let's take another look at 'holocaust' icon, Jan karski.

Here are some points about this character. Following these points is an article titled: 'Jan Karski and the Awful Truth No One Believed'
Indeed, he's not the least bit believable. Some comments are in brackets, some follow quotes.

Karski supposedly broke into the Belzec camp disguised as a guard. Right. How did that work?

Karski claims:
- the Germans used quicklime for mass extermination of Jews
- trains full of Jews quivered and twitched, their flesh throbbed
- but he admitted he had no proof
more here:
http://www.cwporter.com/karski.htm

from: viewtopic.php?t=2163
Hannover wrote:According to acclaimed "eyewitness" Jan Karski, Jews at Belzec were killed as follows (1):

"The floors of the car had been covered with a thick, white powder. It was quicklime. Quicklime is simply unslaked lime or calcium oxide that has been dehydrated. Anyone who has seen cement being mixed knows what occurs when water is poured on lim. The mixture bubbles and steams as the powder combines with the water, generating a large amount of heat. Here the lime served a double purpose in the Nazi economy of brutality. The moist flesh coming in contact with the lime is rapidly dehydrated and burned. The occupants of the cars would be literally burned to death before long, the flesh eaten from their bones. Thus, the Jews would "die in agony"", fulfilling the promise Himmler had issued "in accord with the will of the Fuehrer", in Warsaw, in 1942. [Where is this 'promise that Himmler had issued'?]

Secondly, the lime would prevent decomposing bodies from spreading disease. It was efficient and inexpensive - a prefectly chosen agent for their purposes. It took three hours to fill up the entire train by repetitions of this procedure. It was twilight when the forty six (I counted them) cars were packed. From one end to the other, the train, with its quivering cargo of flesh, seemed to throb, vibrate, rock, and jump as if bewitched. There would be a strangely uniform momentary lull and then, again, the train would begin to moan and sob, wail, and how. Inside the camp a few score dead bodies remained and a few in the final throes of death. German policemen walked around at leisure with smoking guns, pumping bullets into anything that by single motion betrayed an excess of vitality. Soon, not a single one was left alive. In the now quiet camp the only sounds were the inhuman screams that were echoes from the moving train. Then these, too, ceased. All that was now left was the stench of excrement and rotting straw and a queer, sickening, acidulous odour which, I thought, may have come from the quantities of blood that had been let, and with which the ground was stained.

As I listened to the dwindling outcries from the train, I thought of the destination toward which it was speeding. My informants had minutes described the entire journey. The train would travel about eighty miles and finally come to a halt in an empty, barren field. Then nothing at all would happen. The train would stand stock-still, patiently waiting until death had penetrated into every corner of its interior. This would take from two to four days." [Now that's German efficiency.]

source: Jan Karski, Story of a Secret State, The Riverside Press, Cambridge 1944, quoted according to Robert Faurisson, Reponse a Pierre Vidal-Nacquet, La Vielle Taupe, Paris, 1982, pp. 43-44.

Jan Karski was appointed to chair a committee for "Scientific Research on the Holocaust" along with Elie Wiesel. Now deceased, he has been heralded for his alleged undercover efforts in spite of being exposed as a fraud by Revisionists. [Right, Karski is so "scientific".]


from: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1402
The earliest rumors of a gassing of Jews by the Germans apparently circulated in December of 1941 in the Warsaw ghetto. But throughout
the war such rumors found only a feeble echo in circles hostile to Germany. One only has to read a book such as that of Walter Laqueur's
'The Terrible Secret' to realize that the skepticism was general. People still held long-lived memories during the Second World War of the inventions of atrocities during the First World War, when stories were already being spread about the gassing of civilians (in churches
or elsewhere), as well as stories about corpse factories.
The Foreign Office saw the new rumors of the Second World War only as Jewish inventions and many in American circles shared that conviction.
Edward Benes, President of Czechoslovkia (in exile in London),announced in November 1942, after inquiry by his staff, that the Germans, contrary to what had been reported to him, were not exterminating the Jews: The American Jew, Felix Frankfurter, a Supreme Court judge, stated to Jan Karski on the subject: "I can't believe you." In August of 1943, Cordell Hull, Secretary of State, warned the U.S. Ambassador to Moscow by telegram that in planning a joint Allied statement on "the German crimes in Poland", it would be advisable to eliminate any mention of the gas chambers, since, as the British pointed out, there was "insufficient evidence" in the matter.

Zionist "holocaust historian" Raul Hilberg was quoted in an Israeli newspaper that he wouldn't even mention Karski's testimony in a footnote. Given Hilberg's lies & general incompetence that is indeed a damning indictment of Karski.

more:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n6p77_Okeefe.html
and:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p-21_Faurisson.html

Further comments invited, and there is much more to comment about. Read on.

- Hannover

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 22404.html
Jan Karski and the Awful Truth No One Believed

By Carl M. Cannon - April 24, 2014

April 24, 2014, is a date celebrated in Poland and the United States as the 100th birthday of a brave and prescient hero who alerted British and American leaders to the horror of the Holocaust while it was occurring.

The patriot’s name was Jan Karski. Polish by birth, he was a citizen of the world by virtue of his service to humanity in World War II. Afterward, Karski wrote a memoir, emigrated to the U.S., took a job as a Georgetown University professor, and drifted into obscurity.

Forgotten for a generation, his story was resurrected on the eve of the 40th anniversary of Hitler’s invasion of Poland. With the assistance of a former Georgetown student, Karski’s exploits were relived in newspapers in Washington and Paris. French filmmaker Claude Lanzmann saw the story and featured Karski prominently in “Shoah,” his famous documentary on the Holocaust.

This week Karski’s memory was honored at the Polish Embassy in Washington where the former Georgetown student, now an eminent librarian in the Midwest, delivered a heartfelt speech. And whether one lives in Syria or Overland Park, Kan., Karski’s heroism is as relevant now as it was in 1939.

There is some dispute about the true date of Jan Karski’s centennial. Some family members have it as June 24, 1914, although most official Polish sources observe it today, which is the day Georgetown is holding a conference titled “A Responsibility to Protect.”

What no one disputes is the litany of horrors visited upon the Polish people after Sept. 1, 1939, most especially if those Poles were Jewish.

On the day of the Nazi invasion, Karski was a gentleman and an officer—a cavalry lieutenant in a mounted artillery unit. Yes, in that awful war, the Polish Army sent soldiers on horseback to meet German Panzer divisions. The results were predictable: slaughter and defeat.

Karski was captured twice, first by the Russians and then—after he had joined the Polish resistance—by the Nazis, who tortured him. He escaped again, this time by leaping naked from a hospital window. He rejoined the Polish underground, witnessed unspeakable crimes against Jews in the Warsaw ghetto, and was smuggled into a death camp disguised as an Estonian guard.

In 1942, he was sent to London to relate what he’d seen in the concentration camps. He spoke with Lord Selborne, who ran sabotage operations against the Nazis, and Anthony Eden, one of Winston Churchill’s top political allies and confidants.

No one believed him. Well, that’s not quite right. It’s more like they couldn’t comprehend what they were hearing.

Karski was sent to the United States, where the reaction was similar. He personally met with leading U.S. officials, including former president Herbert Hoover, Cordell Hull, Henry Stimson, Francis Biddle, and finally with the commander-in-chief, Franklin Roosevelt. It was now 1944.

“My talk to Roosevelt was at the White House,” Karski recalled later. “I answered his questions, told him everything about the Jews, sparing nothing. I found it helped sometimes to shut my eyes and speak the facts as if I were a machine.”

“Tell your nation we shall win the war,” Roosevelt replied grandly, avoiding mention of Polish Jews in immediate peril.

So Karski kept trying. Accompanied by the Polish ambassador to the United States, he met with Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter; and again, it was much the same: no real reaction.

Frankfurter asked Karski, “Do you know I am a Jew?”

Karski, a Catholic, did know that -- and told Frankfurter so.

Then the esteemed jurist told him, in reference to the death camps, “I can't believe you.”

Karski replied that he was speaking under the authority of the Polish government and there was no possibility in the world that he was not telling the unadorned truth.

Stretching his arms out, Frankfurter turned to the ambassador and said, “I did not say this young man is lying. I said I cannot believe him. There is a difference.”

This was a common reaction to what was happening in Europe, even among people such as French philosopher Raymond Aron, who’d fled the Gestapo -- and it took the world a long time to understand why.

For much of his life, Karski considered himself a failure for not making them see. But later, after his story was rediscovered with the help of his former student, he was able to forgive himself, and in the process come to understand what had happened.

In “Shoah,” he put it this way:

What is knowledge?... Raymond Aron, who had fled to London, was asked whether he knew what was happening at that time in the East. He answered: ‘I knew, but I didn’t believe it, and because I didn’t believe it, I didn’t know.’ ”

Karski came to appear in that film because Lanzmann had seen a 1979 article about him in the International Herald-Tribune. That paper, then owned jointly by The Washington Post and New York Times, had carried an elegantly written feature story by star Style section writer Henry Mitchell. The interview was midwifed by Henry Fortunato, who was in the Georgetown University press office and is now director of public affairs for the Kansas City Public Library. Fortunato was one of Professor Karski’s favorite students at Georgetown, and he was the one who convinced The Post that Karski’s tale would make a good story. Did it ever.

The opening of that story was vintage Henry Mitchell:

The world turned upside down in half an hour at dawn, but Jan Karski had no idea then that he was approaching the day of the broken teeth, the slashed wrists, the naked leap from the window, the cyanide pill and the desperate reach for the confessional.

“The war just stopped for me in half an hour,” he said when I dropped by his elegant house to visit him. "Then instead of war, all I saw was cows and confusion."

Actually, what Karski said was “chaos and confusion,” which Mitchell misheard because of his thick Polish accent. But what are you going to do—correct such a literary gem? Henry Fortunato related that story at Washington’s Cosmos Club on Thursday morning during an event organized by the Jan Karski Educational Foundation. Fortunato also told his audience that his family belongs to the Jewish Community Center in Overland Park, Kansas, where a deranged gunman shouted “Heil, Hitler!” while murdering three innocents.

Two of the victims, a 14-year-old boy and his grandfather, were Methodists. A woman who was killed, universally described as a “caregiver,” was Catholic. That wasn’t irony; it was a reminder of the insanity—and, yes, stupidity—of racism.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims

Postby torus » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:02 pm)

Where do we really begin Hannover? These "eyewitnesses" to Egyptian magic and architecture unlike anything ever witnessed failed to mention the pyramids in their old testament. That's 'biblical' my friend.
Karski is just a fly in need of some honey.
Who has the current monopoly on "suffering"; and who also tends to overrate suffering?
Strange semitic gods and their alleged mouthpieces it would seem. One has, for centuries, considered suffering to be an atonement, a purification, and a cause for "Joyful Joyful we adore thee!" etc. Obviously Christianity and ROMANticism. The hairs of religious inanity have been split so fine now that it's obviously a moot point. Yet...we must destroy the gods!!!

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Re: the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims

Postby Reviso » 4 years 9 months ago (Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:35 am)

There was a somewhat bitter discussion here :
viewtopic.php?t=9077
Friedrich Jansson (Inconvenient History) thinks that Karski's testimony about his visit to a camp has a kernel of truth and that it really concerns Belzec, not Izbica. So, Jansson concludes that Belzec, in accordance with Karski's testimonyi, was a mere transit camp.
I can't fully agree with Jansson's opinion, because there are reasons to think that Karski did not speak of his visit to a camp in the first period of his stay in England. One example : he pretended (after the war) that he spoke of the fate of the Jews when he met Władysław Raczkiewicz, but Raczkiewicz (who would, three weeks later, ask for a public declaration from Pius XII in favour of the Jews) took detailed notes about his conversation with Karski, and there is nothing about the Jews.
Wood and Jankowski, biographers of Karski, say that his experience in the camp became an ordinary feature of his testimony when he had a second round of meetings with personalities...
So, I think, like David Engel, that Karski only after a while began to speak about his visit to a camp. Perhaps (and Michael Mills expressed a similar idea) he recycled a story already told by another Polish courier (it seems that there were several Polish couriers in London at the same time as Karski).
And by the way : he used his story of a visit to an extermination camp as an argument for urging the Jews to ask for retaliation bombings against the Germans, something the Poles tried to obtain for months...
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Re: the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims

Postby Hannover » 4 years 9 months ago (Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:50 am)

Yes, I know that thread and it is bitter. However, it does not change the fact that Karski was an unhinged liar, the point of the OP. His quivering, throbbing trains and all.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims

Postby Reviso » 4 years 9 months ago (Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:16 pm)

Hannover wrote: Karski was an unhinged liar, the point of the OP. His quivering, throbbing trains and all.


I agree 100 %.
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Re: the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims

Postby Hektor » 3 years 2 months ago (Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:42 pm)

Hannover wrote:Yes, I know that thread and it is bitter. However, it does not change the fact that Karski was an unhinged liar, the point of the OP. His quivering, throbbing trains and all.
....

Felix Frankfurter put that a bit more careful:
“My talk to Roosevelt was at the White House,” Karski recalled later. “I answered his questions, told him everything about the Jews, sparing nothing. I found it helped sometimes to shut my eyes and speak the facts as if I were a machine.”

“Tell your nation we shall win the war,” Roosevelt replied grandly, avoiding mention of Polish Jews in immediate peril.

So Karski kept trying. Accompanied by the Polish ambassador to the United States, he met with Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter; and again, it was much the same: no real reaction.

Frankfurter asked Karski, “Do you know I am a Jew?”

Karski, a Catholic, did know that -- and told Frankfurter so.

Then the esteemed jurist told him, in reference to the death camps, “I can't believe you.”

Karski replied that he was speaking under the authority of the Polish government and there was no possibility in the world that he was not telling the unadorned truth.

Stretching his arms out, Frankfurter turned to the ambassador and said, “I did not say this young man is lying. I said I cannot believe him. There is a difference.”

This was a common reaction to what was happening in Europe, even among people such as French philosopher Raymond Aron, who’d fled the Gestapo -- and it took the world a long time to understand why.

For much of his life, Karski considered himself a failure for not making them see. But later, after his story was rediscovered with the help of his former student, he was able to forgive himself, and in the process come to understand what had happened.


I think the experienced Jurist Felix Frankfurter had his reasons for not believing Jan Karsk, that actually had a different name by birth. Felix Frankfurter wasn't only a highly positioned judge. In 1918, he participated in the founding conference of the American Jewish Congress in Philadelphia, creating a national democratic organization of Jewish leaders from all over the US. In 1919, Frankfurter served as a Zionist delegate to the Paris Peace Conference. Hence he was well connected and would have his own sources or know people that were pretty clued up with what was actually happening in Europe. And of course as a judge he could spot a witness lying (or not telling the truth to put it more carefully).


Could it be that Felix Frankfurter was the world's first Holocaust denier?


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