Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Moderator » 3 years 5 months ago (Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:43 pm)

Morrison:
You behave like that Nessie fellow who was banned from Codoh for lying and dodging.
No, he is not banned.

Werd, answer the challenges directly (just saying that Graf & Mattogno believe so & so will not do, it is your views that are being questioned), produce the information Morrison is requesting. If you cannot, just say so and that's it, no big deal. You know the drill.
Here there is no dodging.
Please review guidelines.
Thanks, M1.
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Werd » 3 years 5 months ago (Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:45 pm)

"the remains of thousands" to "limited remains.")

If you take into account all 3 of the main AR camps, I'm sure the total of those who died on/during transport will be in the thousands.

If you want me to sift through Mattogno and Graf to find passages that talk about the kinds of remains that was found as quoted by that judge, or how many people were dying on average on/during Transports to Treblinka, or even about some of those killed out of mercy for being so sick via gunshot, I can do that. But it will take some time.

As for the photos I do not have proof they were taken at Belzec.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Morrison » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:22 pm)

That's seven times now that Werd has dodged the questions directed at him.

I wonder if he'll make it eight?


Werd:

If you take into account all 3 of the main AR camps, I'm sure the total of those who died on/during transport will be in the thousands.

If you want me to sift through Mattogno and Graf to find passages that talk about the kinds of remains that was found as quoted by that judge, or how many people were dying on average on/during Transports to Treblinka, or even about some of those killed out of mercy for being so sick via gunshot, I can do that. But it will take some time.


You've been told twice now that it matters not what M & G think.

But you're statements do beg an additional three questions:


Can you prove that "the kinds of remains that was found as quoted by that judge" were actually found by said judge?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that even one jew died "on/during Transports to Treblinka II"?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least one jew was "killed out of mercy for being so sick via gunshot"
while in transit to or after being transited to Treblinka II?

Yes or no?


Werd:

As for the photos I do not have proof they were taken at Belzec.


Well maybe you can do better with the Treblinka II part of this?

Surely you have photographic proof to back up the claims you've made about Treblinka II?

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby borjastick » 3 years 5 months ago (Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:38 am)

Morrison is your position that not one jew or any other person involved in the transports to and through Treblinka 2 died? Or are you simply suggesting that it cannot be proved with any degree of certainty?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Werd » 3 years 5 months ago (Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:54 am)

If Morrison wants to doubt the gas chambers like myself, that is fine. But if he wants also wants to claim the Soviets and the Poles found NOT ONE HUMAN BONE OR HAIR, he is also free to do that. Łukaszkiewicz and his investigation team found bones, decayed flesh and even some innards such as intestines not fully decayed away.
Mattogno and Graf. Chapter III: Investigations, Camp Plans, Statistics

As for euthanasia by bullet, I was referring to this post of mine where I talked about a debate between Mattogno and HC whereby Willie Mentz shot children at Treblinka. Regarding people dying during transport or already being dead upon arrival, check the statement of Suchomel.
I went to Treblinka end of August 1942[...]I went several times on home leave from Treblinka. Once for the birth of my youngest daughter on the 18th September 1942. Altogether there were four occasions when I had home leave from Treblinka[...]Under Dr Eberl there was chaos in the camp. So many transports were arriving that it was impossible to deal with them. In my opinion, when these transports arrived two thirds of those transported were already dead. At that time I had to work on the ramp and I therefore know this accurately.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby borjastick » 3 years 5 months ago (Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:54 am)

Under Dr Eberl there was chaos in the camp. So many transports were arriving that it was impossible to deal with them. In my opinion, when these transports arrived two thirds of those transported were already dead. At that time I had to work on the ramp and I therefore know this accurately.


So when was Eberl at Treblinka and can you cross relate his time with the known transports into Treblinka for the same period, and how many would 66% add up to during that time?

Funny I haven't heard anyone else talk of such a death rate among arrivals.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Hannover » 3 years 5 months ago (Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:35 pm)

Werd,
You can't be serious in quoting the thoroughly debunked Franz Suchomel.
That liar has been demolished repeatedly at this forum and elsewhere, see:

'Franz Suchomel's 'confession' demolished by Jean-Francois Beaulieu'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9836

The Shoah must go on / Suchomel
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1204

As for the communists Lukaszkiewicz and his "investigation team", indeed they admitted they found no mass graves as alleged at Treblinka, however their creative fall back position which is quoted by Mattogno & Graf has no basis in fact.

- If there were remains of the people in the ground as alleged then why can't they be shown?
- Why hasn't there been a verifiable excavation?
- Where are the photos of this claimed site? If true this would be a big time crime scene with huge promotional potential for the communists / Zionists. Photos are essential for any legit, actual forensic examination.
- What outside observers were brought in to verify the claimed finds?
- Why should Polish communists under the watchful eye of their masters, communist Soviets, be considered the least bit reliable? Lukaszkiewicz merely making things up as he goes, there is nothing to support his lies.

for more see:
'Polish investigating Judge 1945'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9006
and:
' The Treblinka Holocaust'
By Arnulf Neumaier
http://codoh.com/library/document/931/
and:
'Treblinka dissected at the Demjanjuk trial'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151

Werd, if you believe communists Lukaszkiewicz and his "investigation team" then it is incumbent upon you to actually produce proof for their fall back claims. If what they claim is fact then that proof would be readily available, it would be blazing through the media 24/7.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Werd » 3 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:04 am)

Hannover wrote:As for the communists Lukaszkiewicz and his "investigation team", indeed they admitted they found no mass graves as alleged at Treblinka, however their creative fall back position which is quoted by Mattogno & Graf has no basis in fact.

- If there were remains of the people in the ground as alleged then why can't they be shown?
- Why hasn't there been a verifiable excavation?
- Where are the photos of this claimed site? If true this would be a big time crime scene with huge promotional potential for the communists / Zionists. Photos are essential for any legit, actual forensic examination.
- What outside observers were brought in to verify the claimed finds?
- Why should Polish communists under the watchful eye of their masters, communist Soviets, be considered the least bit reliable? Lukaszkiewicz merely making things up as he goes, there is nothing to support his lies.

You just said there was an admission they found no mass graves. So is that a lie too? :?

I see nothing wrong with claiming Lukasziewicz and his team found a few bones and pieces of partially decayed flesh and innards AND NOTHING MORE! If people are sick during war time, they will die within the transit camp system when they are being moved east. How is that me turning my back on revisionism and confirming gas chambers? Revisionism states that wartime unfortunately caused a lot of sickness and death. The other side always blames the Nazis for this, but that is absurd. So to think not one person was sick or dead during transports through the AR camps to the east, is silly.

As for Suchomel, I treat him like I would Wiernick. I reject anything that contradicts physics and is therefore impossible. With Wiernick, I ignore the gas chambers and yellow skin from gassing from Wiernick while admitting other aspects are probably accurate recalls of memory in his book. Examples would be him talking about:

1. Treblinka being two camps
2. railways existing
3. job tasks
4. other inmates
5. locations of bakeries
6. latrines
7. Barracks
8. nazi guards giving orders
9. sometimes even nazi guards' name

I reject all testimony about gassings from Suchomel, but give pause for things that are not part of the gassing narrative. Such as people dying during transport. Now maybe it was not two thirds and I will have to ditch that claim. He probably exaggerated something that did happen. People dying during transport due to wartime conditions of sickness and unfortunate disease NOT caused by the nazis.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Hannover » 3 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:25 am)

Werd:
You just said there was an admission they found no mass graves. So is that a lie too? :?

I see nothing wrong with claiming Lukasziewicz and his team found a few bones and pieces of partially decayed flesh and innards AND NOTHING MORE! If people are sick during war time, they will die within the transit camp system when they are being moved east. How is that me turning my back on revisionism and confirming gas chambers? Revisionism states that wartime unfortunately caused a lot of sickness and death. The other side always blames the Nazis for this, but that is absurd. So to think not one person was sick or dead during transports through the AR camps to the east, is silly.
Please, no strawmen, I explained that this was a fallback position for a communist judge when he came up empty for mass graves. Please actually read what I post.
Yes, I agree that some people would have died there, I never said they didn't. But what the communist judge Lukasziewicz paints is pure fantasy in reaction to his not finding what is absurdly claimed he would find. IOW, he's engaging in what is called 'spin' / damage control, all in the name of propaganda.

Unfortunately, but now predictably, you dodge my points:
- If there were remains of the people in the ground as alleged then why can't they be shown?
- Why hasn't there been a verifiable excavation?
- Where are the photos of this claimed site? If true this would be a big time crime scene with huge promotional potential for the communists / Zionists. Photos are essential for any legit, actual forensic examination.
- What outside observers were brought in to verify the claimed finds?
- Why should Polish communists under the watchful eye of their masters, communist Soviets, be considered the least bit reliable? Lukaszkiewicz merely making things up as he goes, there is nothing to support his lies.
Let's go, Werd. Give us the proof of those claims.
Simple as that.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Werd » 3 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:30 am)

Hannover wrote:Unfortunately, but now predictably, you dodge my points:
- If there were remains of the people in the ground as alleged then why can't they be shown?
- Why hasn't there been a verifiable excavation?
- Where are the photos of this claimed site? If true this would be a big time crime scene with huge promotional potential for the communists / Zionists. Photos are essential for any legit, actual forensic examination.
- What outside observers were brought in to verify the claimed finds?
- Why should Polish communists under the watchful eye of their masters, communist Soviets, be considered the least bit reliable? Lukaszkiewicz merely making things up as he goes, there is nothing to support his lies.
Let's go, Werd. Give us the proof of those claims.
Simple as that.

It boils down to idiots like CSC who takes orders from rabbis to stop digging due to bullshit religious excuses. They go in there and do as little work as possible because they don't think they have to since they think the holocaust is already real.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Hannover » 3 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:46 am)

Yes, religious excuses do not stand up to scrutiny, good point.
see:
'The Big Excuse: 'excavation & exhumation of Jews forbidden'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6817

However, these loony rabbis know it's BS and therefore go all out to prevent serious verifiable excavations. Just look at the physical impediments in place at the alleged "extermination" camps.

more here:
'Treblinka Archaeology Hoax available on DVD'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9772

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Morrison » 3 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:15 pm)

borjastick wrote:Morrison is your position that not one jew or any other person involved in the transports to and through Treblinka 2 died? Or are you simply suggesting that it cannot be proved with any degree of certainty?


Neither.

Werd has made numerous statements as if they were fact.

I'm simply asking him if he can prove his unsubstantiated true-believing allegations.

But if you want to know my opinion, I would say that it's plausible some jew died on a train bound for one of the camps.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Morrison » 3 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:20 pm)

That's eight times now that Werd has dodged the questions directed at him.

I wonder if he'll make it nine?

Werd wrote:Łukaszkiewicz and his investigation team found bones, decayed flesh and even some innards such as intestines not fully decayed away.


Werd, can you prove that "Łukaszkiewicz and his investigation team found bones, decayed flesh and even some innards such as intestines not fully decayed away"?

Yes or no?


Werd, maybe now would be a good time for you to show us your photographic proof of Treblinka II?

It would be nice if you could actually back up this previous statement of yours:

Don't pretend those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house were not of human remains

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Werd » 3 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:32 pm)

Morrison wrote:Werd, can you prove that "Łukaszkiewicz and his investigation team found bones, decayed flesh and even some innards such as intestines not fully decayed away"?

I guess not. I simply take L's word for it just like Mattogno and Graf appear to.
But if you want to know my opinion, I would say that it's plausible some jew died on a train bound for one of the camps.

Good. Thank you.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Morrison » 3 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:00 pm)

That's nine times now that Werd has dodged the questions directed at him.

I wonder if he'll make it ten?

But he did respond to one question:

Werd, can you prove that "Łukaszkiewicz and his investigation team found bones, decayed flesh and even some innards such as intestines not fully decayed away"?

Yes or no?


Werd:

I guess not. I simply take L's word for it


:lol:

Spoken like a true-believer Werd.


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