Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Moderator » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:55 am)

Werd:
In spite of being asked to stop, you are still dodging challenges from Hannover and Morrison.
Moderator wrote:Werd:
Please give us specifics when responding to specific questions, such as:
What graves Werd? Can you show us one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

The graves were "destroyed"? Can you tell us exactly how the alleged mass graves were destroyed Werd?

Can you tell us Werd, where exactly the so-called "Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls?"

And don't forget to prove your claims with " those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house."
Thanks, M1

Readers, please review this thread for specifics.
Your last inconsequential and redundant post was deleted because of your failure to address those challenges and more since my above request to you.
Address those challenges directly, you know the guidelines.
Last chance for you in this thread. This is becoming tiresome.
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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Hektor » 4 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:27 am)

Werd wrote:Well nobody denies graves were opened. I think even most revisionists would say yes there were probably a few small graves in Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka and possibly Auschwtiz. But they were dug up and destroyed for health concerns. If the mere opening of graves is proof the holocaust, that is not a good argument. If someone wants to show me a genuine document with 1005 on it anywhere talking about gas chambers, be my guest. But nobody can. :lol:

My whole point in all of this is to check Mattogno's claim the Soviets INVENTED this 1005 thing. That seems false and therefore so does Rudolf's claim that there is no paper trial for a "1005." Especially if Romanov has found at least three German documents with "1005" on them. And I want to know if those three documents cited by Romanov that have "1005" in them are genuine or fake/forgeries. That is all. Stop trying to complicate things. Resurrect a thread on Belzec or Treblinka or Sobibor or something. At least Hannover can stay on topic.


Well Werd, why don't you post scans on those documents mentioning 1005, that shows that it was involved in making evidence vanish, and we have a look at it?

The whole Holocaust epos is based on mixing the genuine with the fraudulent. I mean any con-scam does, or not.
Last edited by Hektor on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Werd » 4 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:08 am)

Werd wrote:My whole point in all of this is to check Mattogno's claim the Soviets INVENTED this 1005 thing. That seems false and therefore so does Rudolf's claim that there is no paper trial for a "1005." Especially if Romanov has found at least three German documents with "1005" on them. And I want to know if those three documents cited by Romanov that have "1005" in them are genuine or fake/forgeries.

Werd wrote:Romanov may be correct that Germans willingly testifying about it to Americans without Soviet involvement.

The 3 documents are on the first page of this topic in the HC article.
Anyway, to spare Mattogno the need to acquire documents from an Israeli archive, I'll provide the German text as quoted in Dieter Pohl, Die Herrschaft der Wehrmacht: Deutsche Militärbesatzung und einheimische Bevölkerung in der Sowjetunion 1941-1944, 2009 (2.Auflage), S. 330:

Das AOK 2 kannte sogar den internen Decknamen dieser Aktion: "Auf Grund eines Sonderbefehls des Reichsführers SS ist das Sdr.Kdo. 1005 zu besonderen Aufgaben im Armeegebiet eingesetzt."

And the corresponding footnote:

37 BA-MA RH 20-2/1358, S.227, Tätigkeitsbericht AOK 2, Ic/AO, 25.4.1944. Die 2. Armee befand sich zu diesem Zeitpunkt in Polesien im Bereich der Pripjat'-Sümpfe

That is, the original is in Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv, while Spector cited a copy from YVA.
That matter disposed of, let's make a control headshot. Or three.

The first one:
Z.b.V.-Einsatzkommando 13-1 (12b) Klagenfurt, den 18.11.1944
Az. 10.10 Tgb.Nr. 16/44 - Geheime Staatspolizei - Burg. Einschreiben!
An die Staatl. Pol.-Verwaltung in Kiel
Betr.: Verwendung von Pol.-Sekr. Drews.
Der am 25.3.1943 vom Kommando der Schutzpolizei Kiel zum langfristigen Notdienst zur Pol-Reserve als Zugwachtmeister der Schp.d.Res. 5 herangezogene Pol.-Sekretär Drews ist auf Anordnung des Führers der z.b.V.-Gruppe "Iltis" - Reichssicherheitshauptamt -, SS-Standartenführer Blobel als Leiter I (Personalsachbearbeiter) und Leiter II (leitender Wirtschaftsbeamter) meinem Stab auf Grund seiner Kenntnisse im Verwaltungsdienst auf meinen Wunsch zugeteilt worden. Drews hat sich im Hinblick auf seine militärischen Erfahrungen im Fronteinsatz als Führer eines Zuges unter gleichzeitiger Wahrnehmung der anfallenden Verwaltungsaufgaben zu meiner vollsten Zufriedenheit bewährt. Er ist seit Beginn seines Einsatzes im Osten bei meiner Einheit tätig und zur Sicherheitspolizei abgeordnet. Im Hinblick darauf, dass sämtliche Angehörigen der Ordnungspolizei die im Osteinsatz mit der Durchführung der Aufgaben in der Geheimen Reichssache 1005 betraut waren, ist bestimmungsgemäss eine dienstliche Verwendung im Rahmen des ordnungspolizeilichen Einsatzes auf Grund der vom Reichsführer-SS - Reichssicherheitshauptamt - herausgegebenen Weisungen nicht mehr möglich. Der dzt. Einsatz meiner Einheit im Gaugebiet Kärnten ist auf unbestimmte Zeit begrenzt. Ich bitte daher, aus den angeführten Gründen für den zur Sicherheitspolizei endgültig abgestellten Pol.-Sekr. Drews die ausgesprochene Notdienstverpflichtung aufzuheben. Eine besondere Verfügung an Pol.-Sekr. Drews bitte ich im Hinblick hierauf zu erlassen. Da Drews seit dem 1.9.1944 als Pol.-Sekretär behelfsmässig eingekleidet ist, bitte ich ferner, ihm die gern. Erlass zustehende erste Einkleidungsbeihilfe von RM 250,- überweisen zu wollen. Aus einsatzmässigen Gründen kann er jedoch zur ersten Einkleidung nicht nach Kiel beurlaubt werden. Ich bitte, die erforderlichen Bezugscheine nach hier zu übersenden. Die vollständige Einkleidung würde sodann von der Bekleidungslieferstelle in Klagenfürt durchgeführt werden.Wegen Ankauf einer beamteneigenen Pistole bitte ich ausserdem um Ausstellung einer entsprechenden Bescheinigung, damit der Ankauf von hier erfolgen kann. Ferner wird mitgeteilt, dass dem Pol.-Sekr. Drews mit Wirkung vom 1.9.44 vom Reichssicherheitshauptamt das KVK II.Klasse mit Schwertern verliehen worden ist. Das Lichtbild zur Ausstellung des neuen SS-Soldbuches wird gleichzeitig in der Anlage beigefügt.
1 Anlage.


Source: Justiz und NS-Verbrechen, 2003, vol. 27, case 662. I thank Hans for pointing out this citation.

The second one:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-O2ZZOpp_bB4/V ... Bkauen.jpg

Source: Alex Faitelson, The Truth and Nothing But the Truth: Jewish Resistance in Lithuania, 2006, p.268. I thank Maximus Olson for pointing out this source.

The third one:
In den Abendstunden des 25.12.43 brachen 64 im Fort IX eingesetzte Arbeitskräfte des Unternehmens 1005-B aus, ohne dass die Flucht zunächst bemerkt wurde. Im Zuge der sofort eingeleiteten Fahndungen gelang es bisher, insgesamt 37 der Flüchtlinge wieder zu erfassen, wovon 5 auf der Flucht erschossen wurden.

Source: KdS Litauen, Lagebericht Dezember 1943, LCVA R1399-1-61, p.359 as cited in Christoph Dieckmann, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Litauen 1941-1944, 2011, p.1322. I thank Nick Terry for the quote and the reference.

This was also published by Faitelman in English (op. cit, p. 257, also see this page). And in German - back in 1998! (Pabėgimas iš IX forto, p. 103).

About this third one, theblackrabbitofinle posted a comment at HC blog.
SR: Source: KdS Litauen, Lagebericht Dezember 1943, LCVA R1399-1-61, p.359 as cited in Christoph Dieckmann, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Litauen 1941-1944, 2011, p.1322. I thank Nick Terry for the quote and the reference.

This was also published by Faitelman [sic] in English (op. cit, p. 257,",

Faitelson also published what appears to be a partial facsmilie of it in Heroism & Bravery in Lithuania 1941-1945, p.370; the source given is "Central State Archives in Lithuania, Vol. 644, Description 1, File 61, p. 339, 1944"


A few more have been added.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... s-and.html
The fourth one is the Auschwitz garrison order (Standortbefehl) Nr. 24/44, 21.09.44, whose distribution list (Verteiler) mentions Sonderkommando 1005 (see N.Frei et al., Standort- und Kommandanturbefehle des Konzentrationslagers Auschwitz 1940-1945, 2000, S. 556). I thank Hans for pointing out this source.

The fifth one:

Sämtliche unter lfd. Nr. 1 bis 20 aufgeführten Männer waren bei den Judenumsiedlungen im Distrikt Galizien hervorragend beteiligt. Ferner haben sie sich in zahlreichen Unternehmen gegen Banden durch beispielhaften Schneid unter Nichtachtung ihrer Person wiederholt besonders ausgezeichnet. Ihre wertvollen, gewaltsamen Erkundungsergebnisse bei vieien Spähtruppunternehmen haben wesentlich zur Zerschlagung größerer Bandengruppen beigetragen. Ferner gehören die unter lfd. Nr 1 bis 16 aufgeführten Männer seit Monaten dem Sonderkommando 1005 (geh. Reichssache) an und sind bei dieser Tätigkeit ganz besonderen seelischen und körperlichen Belastungen ausgesetzt.


Source: Vorschlagsliste zur Verleihung des KVK II.Klasse, 26.05.1944, Barch, B 162/202 ARZ 289/60, Bl. 7 as cited in Jens Hoffmann, "Das kann man nicht erzählen". "Aktion 1005" - Wie die Nazis die Spuren ihrer Massenmorde in Osteuropa beseitigten, 2008, S. 104-105.


The sixth one:

Einsatz der SK 1005 A und B, GrS-Auftrag RFSS an SS-Staf. Blobel im Raum BdS-Schwarzes Meer nicht möglich. Erfaßte Niederschlagsgebiete nur noch im Raum KdS-Krim. Einsatz dort bei Front- und Bandenlage zZt. untunlich. Transportraum für Gesamtkommando nicht vorhanden. Gerüchteweise verlautet, daß Räumung Krim bevorsteht. Schlage Auflösung beider Kommandos bzw. Einsatz in anderem Raume vor.


Source: excerpt from a secret 28.03.1944 radiogram from SS-Stubaf. Friedrich Hegenscheidt (KdS Schwarzes Meer) to Chef der Sipo und des SD and Einsatzgruppe C Lemberg, Abw. Stab; Barch, B 162/204 ARZ 419/62, Band 1, Bl. 146 as cited in ibid., S. 127. (Note that "Niederschläge" was a code word for buried bodies of the Nazi victims, cf. B 162/3537, Bl. 115.)

Notably this last document not only explicitly mentions both SK1005a and SK1005b, it also names them a task of the Reichsführer-SS Himmler which was a secret Reich matter and was given to Paul Blobel - something Mattogno has always desperately tried to deny.


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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Hannover » 4 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:36 am)

Really Werd?

I see one 'document' that attempts to look like a scan of an original:

Image
and it has no signature or following pages that I can see, it has been cropped (see bottom).

The rest are someone's claimed text, not authentic German documents. What are they trying to hide?
Did I miss something?

Also, please address the challenges put to you in previous posts in this thread.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Moderator » 4 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:30 pm)

Werd:
You are dodging the challenges to your claims, do so or leave this thread. You have been warned repeatedly.
That's in the guidelines and that's it.
No whining.
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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Werd » 4 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:03 pm)

Morrison's post at the bottom of page 3 contains his question, my response and his subsequent response on the evidence or lackthereof regarding the Treblinka excavations in the 40's. If this is not what you are getting at, then what are you?

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Moderator » 4 years 4 months ago (Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:54 pm)

Oh please, that was not a response to specifics, stop playing games. There are numerous very specific requests for you back up your claims.
I invite our readers to check.
You can always say that you made mistakes or you have no answers and move on. It happens.
Last chance.
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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Werd » 4 years 4 months ago (Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:24 am)

What follows is my attempt to abide by my last chance.

Page one:
Morrison wrote:
Werd wrote:"I bet Belzec and Treblinka had at least a few mass graves."
I'll take that bet Werd. I'll bet you that you can't prove that the remains of 10 people currently exist at Belzec, Chelmno or Treblinka.
I'll bet you that you can't prove that the remains of 20 people currently exist at Sobibor. (Where a total of 10 skeletons have been located / proven to exist in a total of 4 graves.)
And I'll bet you that you can't prove even one extant grave currently exists at Belzec or Treblinka.
And I'll bet you that you can't prove even one mass grave containing just 1 / 1,000 of 1% - of the fraudulently alleged buried remains claims ever existed at Belzec or Treblinka.

Next.
Morrison wrote:Werd, if Belzec and Treblinka "had at least a few mas graves," would it be possible for archaeologists to locate them still today?

If the barrier was removed from Belzec in 2016, who knows? If we believe Kola's report on Belzec from the late 90's, then some mass graves were found. But all he gave was pencil drawings. Is that really the only way his core samples were documented from Belzec? The highest order of documentation of removal of contents, contents themselves, and lab testing for contents is necessary. Video, photography and lab tests. One should also mark the site permanently to show where they took samples. You also should not put back the core samples you took. You ruin the stratigraphy that was there before you basically ruined it. I made that very clear on page 2 here
Page one.
Morrison wrote:no alleged huge mass graves = no Aktion 1005 as alleged.

I would agree. I said it before and I will say it again. Mattogno's book on Belzec from the early 2000's PROVES there was no mass extermination there. The book THE EXTERMINATION CAMPS OF AKTION REINHARDT with Thomas Kues and Jurgen Graf along with Carlo Mattogno solidify the revisionist position despite the new HC babblings posted since June where Muehlenkamp "refutes" Mattogno's two last chapters in that massive MGK work.

Page two.
Morrison wrote:Can you prove those photos were taken at Belzec Werd?
Yes or no?
Can you prove that those bones are jews who were buried by the Germans?
Yes or no?
And how is that supposed to be proof that "the remains of thousands of Jews exist in each of the Aktion Reinhardt camps?
What a joke.


Page three.
Werd wrote:As for the photos I do not have proof they were taken at Belzec.


Page three.
Morrison wrote:Can you prove that "the kinds of remains that was found as quoted by that judge" were actually found by said judge?
Yes or no?
Can you prove that even one jew died "on/during Transports to Treblinka II"?
Yes or no?
Can you prove that at least one jew was "killed out of mercy for being so sick via gunshot" while in transit to or after being transited to Treblinka II?
Yes or no?

Page three.
Werd wrote:IAs for euthanasia by bullet, I was referring to this post of mine where I talked about a debate between Mattogno and HC whereby Willie Mentz shot children at Treblinka. Regarding people dying during transport or already being dead upon arrival, check the statement of Suchomel.
I went to Treblinka end of August 1942[...]I went several times on home leave from Treblinka. Once for the birth of my youngest daughter on the 18th September 1942. Altogether there were four occasions when I had home leave from Treblinka[...]Under Dr Eberl there was chaos in the camp. So many transports were arriving that it was impossible to deal with them. In my opinion, when these transports arrived two thirds of those transported were already dead. At that time I had to work on the ramp and I therefore know this accurately.

Now I was scolded by Hannover for daring to reference Suchomel because of other things he has said that were not credible. Well I am ignorant of what many of his tall tales were, but all I am able to offer is that it is possible some were euthenized by bullet or that some Jews did during transport. Hell with all the disease and lack of hygiene, it would be stupid to suggest it never happened. As Morrison said, "I would say that it's plausible some jew died on a train bound for one of the camps." We can disagree on the numbers, but as least Morrison admits it was plausible.
Page three.
Morrison wrote:Werd, can you prove that "Łukaszkiewicz and his investigation team found bones, decayed flesh and even some innards such as intestines not fully decayed away"? Yes or no?

I then said:
Werd wrote:I guess not. I simply take L's word for it just like Mattogno and Graf appear to.

Now as for the other questions asked of me:
What graves Werd? Can you show us one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

Nope.
The Sonderaktion 1005 (English: Special Action 1005), also called Aktion 1005, or Enterdungsaktion (English: Exhumation Action) began in May 1942 during World War II to hide any evidence that people had been murdered by Nazi Germany in Aktion Reinhard in occupied Poland. The operation, which was conducted in strict secrecy from 1942–1944, used prisoners to exhume mass graves and burn the bodies. These work groups were officially called Leichenkommandos ("corpse units") and were all part of Sonderkommando 1005; inmates were often put in chains in order to prevent escape.

In May 1943 the operation moved into occupied territories in Eastern Europe to destroy evidence of the Holocaust. Sonderaktion 1005 was used to conceal the evidence of massacres committed by SS-Einsatzgruppen Nazi death squads that had massacred millions of people including 1.3 million Jews according to Historian Raul Hillberg, as well as Roma and local civilians in Eastern Europe. The Aktion was overseen by selected squads from the Sicherheitsdienst and Ordnungspolizei.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderaktion_1005

Keep in mind that the Babi Yar hoax was exposed many years ago.
In March 1942, SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich placed SS-Standartenführer Paul Blobel in charge of the Aktion 1005. However its start was delayed after Heydrich was assassinated in June 1942 by Czechoslovakian SOE agents in Operation Anthropoid. It was after the end of June that SS-Gruppenführer Heinrich Müller, head of the Gestapo finally gave Blobel his orders.[1] While the principal aim was to erase evidence of Jewish exterminations, the Aktion would also include non-Jewish victims of Nazi Einsatzgruppen.[1]

Blobel began his work experimenting at Chełmno (Kulmhof). Attempts to use incendiary bombs to destroy exhumed bodies were unsuccessful as the weapons set fire to nearby forests. The most effective way was eventually found to be giant pyres on iron grills. The method involved building alternating layers of corpses and firewood on railway tracks. Afterwards remaining bone fragments could be crushed by pounding with heavy dowels or in a grinding machine and then re-buried in pits.[1] The operation officially began at Sobibór extermination camp. The Leichenkommando exhumed the bodies from mass graves around the camp and then burned them, after which task the workers were executed. The process then moved to Bełżec in November 1942.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderaktion_1005

Well if there were any human remains in any of the aktion reinhardt camps, then of course logically, there were graves which had to be opened in order to retrieve the bodies and burn them. Nobody argues for whatever reason that there were no burials and corpses were only above ground. Again, this all hinges on the belief in the alleged accuracy of the report from Treblinka by Łukaszkiewicz and his investigation team.

The only graves I know that were opened by anybody for sure were by Debois and his team. Busk is fresh in my mind given how a Mattogno article attacking Debois was translated into English just last year by Carlos Porter. Funny how only using eyewitness testimony and perhaps a few newspaper reports from decades ago, Debois still managed to find mass graves attributed to the Nazis according to human memories. :o But again, I would take the Vincent Reynouard view: Jews were liquidated because they were either partisans themselves or they worked with them. A few mass graves whose so called layers we aren't even allowed to check due to interfering rabbis or a lack of creativity in archaeology, don't prove mass extermination and we have no original documents attesting to an aktion 1005 task force. Holocaust Controversies keeps 'adding sources' but we do not see originals. In the last three sources they added, we never even got full reproductions. Just small clips followed by footnotes. They scold Mattogno for not going to the archives to find these sources, and yet they won't produce the goddamn originals they claim exist! They read books and steal their footnotes. That's all they do. Hypocrites.
The graves were "destroyed"? Can you tell us exactly how the alleged mass graves were destroyed Werd?

The only graves that we know were destroyed in any sense were the ones Debois located and dug up. Destroyed in the sense that they were distrubed and the stratigraphy of the ground was ruined. But it's a minor quibble of course.
Can you tell us Werd, where exactly the so-called "Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls?"

Supposedly in Treblinka according to Łukaszkiewicz but as I already said I can't prove they found a damn thing. The photos claimed to be from Treblinka and Belzec show limited human skeletons. Hell, why not photograph them all if they exist in large quantities?

Why do archaeologists and others always seem to refuse to or forget to properly document all the things they allegedly find?

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Hannover » 4 years 4 months ago (Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:51 pm)

Come on Werd, you're dancing around the tough questions from Morrison and myself. You are not answering them directly, specifically.

Personally, I have nailed you on numerous specific points which you still dodge. Please review the thread.

What's happening is that you got in over your head in trying call Mattogno a liar on "Aktion 1005". When confronted on the specifics you have failed miserably to sustain your accusation. What you have presented as 'proof' is easily refuted. It's just that simple.
Again, everyone, review this thread.

Werd, the only person who attempted to minimally rescue you in this thread was Thames Darwin, who is not exactly the US Cavalry. :lol:
What you should do is simply admit you were wrong and call it a day. Why should your continuous dodging be tolerated here?
This is not the Mickey Mouse forum that you are used to elsewhere. If you make claims here you are liable to be called on them. Lack of a specific response means your discussion is over, your argument defeated. That's the way is should be in serious debates.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Hannover » 4 years 4 months ago (Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:14 am)

Werd:
Here are some of specifics (may be some repetition) from this thread that you have refused to address. Why? Because you cannot provide the proof that you allege exists.

I see one 'document' that attempts to look like a scan of an original:


Image

and it has no signature or following pages that I can see, it has been cropped (see bottom).

The rest are someone's claimed text, not authentic German documents. What are they trying to hide?
Did I miss something?

and:
"What graves Werd? Can you show us one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

The graves were "destroyed"? Can you tell us exactly how the alleged mass graves were destroyed Werd?

Can you tell us Werd, where exactly the so-called "Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls?"

And don't forget to prove your claims with " those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house."

and:
If there were remains of the people in the ground as alleged then why can't they be shown?
- Why hasn't there been a verifiable excavation?
- Where are the photos of this claimed site? If true this would be a big time crime scene with huge promotional potential for the communists / Zionists. Photos are essential for any legit, actual forensic examination.
- What outside observers were brought in to verify the claimed finds?
- Why should Polish communists under the watchful eye of their masters, communist Soviets, be considered the least bit reliable? Lukaszkiewicz merely making things up as he goes, there is nothing to support his lies.

and:
Werd,
You can't be serious in quoting the thoroughly debunked Franz Suchomel.
That liar has been demolished repeatedly at this forum and elsewhere, see:

'Franz Suchomel's 'confession' demolished by Jean-Francois Beaulieu'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9836

The Shoah must go on / Suchomel
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1204

and:
- If there were remains of the people in the ground as alleged then why can't they be shown?
- Why hasn't there been a verifiable excavation?
- Where are the photos of this claimed site? If true this would be a big time crime scene with huge promotional potential for the communists / Zionists. Photos are essential for any legit, actual forensic examination.
- What outside observers were brought in to verify the claimed finds?
- Why should Polish communists under the watchful eye of their masters, communist Soviets, be considered the least bit reliable? Lukaszkiewicz merely making things up as he goes, there is nothing to support his lies.

for more see:
'Polish investigating Judge 1945'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9006
and:
' The Treblinka Holocaust'
By Arnulf Neumaier
http://codoh.com/library/document/931/
and:
'Treblinka dissected at the Demjanjuk trial'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151

Werd, if you believe communists Lukaszkiewicz and his "investigation team" then it is incumbent upon you to actually produce proof for their fall back claims. If what they claim is fact then that proof would be readily available, it would be blazing through the media 24/7.

and:
1. Since they cannot / will not provide the originals they are either forged or do not really say what is alleged.
2. There has been no demonstration of a paper trail. Let's see the alleged documents. Simple.

and:
Do mass graves exist at Belzec that contain "corpses in wax fat transformation"?
or
Were these phantom mass graves "opened / dug up and destroyed"?

and:
As well, Werd says he's willing to bet that Belzec and Treblinka had at least a few mass graves, but backed down when challenged to prove it.

and:
When you say "destroyed" Werd, do you mean annihilated / obliterated?

Could you tell us how this process of annihilation worked at the camps Werd?

Can you show us just one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

Werd reminds me of Patrick Desbois.

and:
Why don't we ask Werd, as he is now the self-proclaimed best researcher in revisionism?

He implies over at another site that the remains of thousands of Jews exist in each of the Aktion Reinhardt camps
and explicitly says:

"I bet Belzec and Treblinka had at least a few mass graves."

I'll take that bet Werd.

I'll bet you that you can't prove that the remains of 10 people currently exist at Belzec, Chelmno or Treblinka.

I'll bet you that you can't prove that the remains of 20 people currently exist at Sobibor. (Where a total of 10 skeletons have been located / proven to exist in a total of 4 graves.)

And I'll bet you that you can't prove even one extant grave currently exists at Belzec or Treblinka.

And I'll bet you that you can't prove even one mass grave containing just 1 / 1,000 of 1% - of the fraudulently alleged buried remains claims ever existed at Belzec or Treblinka.

and:
- Simply put, there has been no verified excavations of the alleged enormous mass graves to see, which is damning to the 'holocaust' claims considering that:
'the locals could tell anyone where to start digging' and "The Nazis were not successful in removing the signs of the murder because of the vast numbers".
So IWO, there are no such mass graves as alleged otherwise we'd be seeing them. Hence Aktion 1005 is more Zionist BS. Romanov desperately provides a contradictory rationale for the fact that there are no such graves alleged. He has shot himself in the foot with his own words.

- Where is the actual order from Himmler to view and confirm? This Spector character's alleged "quote" of the alleged order would not cut it in a court a law. Why can't we see the original German document? Was this order ever displayed in a court of law? Nope. It's alleged contents are fraudulent, otherwise the actual order would displayed for all to see. Imagine making a claim about a document and then not being able to produce it. You'd would be laughed out of court.

- Romanov has not refuted the claim that it was a Soviet invention since he cannot produce original orders/letters/documents to support his claims. In fact, it's actually irrelevant whose "invention" it was since there is no proof for the impossible claims. No claimed original letters/orders/documents, no alleged huge mass graves = no Aktion 1005 as alleged.

The Aktion 1005 allegations are part of the unsupportable '2,000,000 Jews shot by the Einsatzgruppen' tale.
So, is that:
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?
None can be shown.

No dodging, Werd. Answer all the challenges specifically, directly. No BS at this forum

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Werd » 4 years 4 months ago (Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:52 pm)

I see one 'document' that attempts to look like a scan of an original:

Image

and it has no signature or following pages that I can see, it has been cropped (see bottom).

The rest are someone's claimed text, not authentic German documents. What are they trying to hide?
Did I miss something?

The last three examples of German documents with 1005 on them are not actual examples. They are block quotations from entire documents that are not presented. Romanov scolds us for not believing him simply because he takes scans from books that OTHER AUTHORS have written. He scolds us for not believing in SECONDARY SOURCES. He says the footnotes point to the archive location. FINE. GO TO THE ARCHIVES AND GET THEM AND PROVE TO US THEY ARE ORIGINALS OR AT LEAST COPIES OF AUTHENTIC ORIGINALS! This lack of evidence undercuts their argument against Mattogno that Mattogno incorrectly blames the Soviets for conjuring up aktion 1005. Even if Mattogno did claim with little or no evidence it was Soviets specifically, I guess you are correct I should stop caring why. Even if Germans did testify to 1005 willingly to the Americans without any Soviets in the picture, Romanov can claim victory if he wants. OH WAIT NO HE CAN'T. HE CAN'T SHOW US ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS. He loses.

Can you tell us Werd, where exactly the so-called "Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls?"

And don't forget to prove your claims with " those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house."

The photos alleged to be taken in Belzec that are in the ghetto fighters house photo collection I can not prove they were taken at Belzec. How about some motion picture of the digs in the forties showing people taking photographs and then showing people collecting the skeletal remains, trucking them to a lab and doing tests and then locking them in an archive with proper labels? None of that was done so revisionists are not under any obligation to believe the holocaust lobby.

The photos alleged to be taken in Treblinka showing ash mounds I can not prove they were taken in Treblinka, nor can I prove they were all ash, or some ash, or none ash mixed with dirt. There is a severe lack of photographic documentation about the human remains alleged to be at Treblinka. The report from Lukaszkiewicz does not prove the holocaust and there is no corresponding photographic evidence to prove the bits of bone, intestines and partially decayed flesh he claims he found. Nobody has found any proof of mass graves at either Belzec, Treblinka or Sobibor.

I'll bet you that you can't prove that the remains of 10 people currently exist at Belzec, Chelmno or Treblinka.

I'll bet you that you can't prove that the remains of 20 people currently exist at Sobibor. (Where a total of 10 skeletons have been located / proven to exist in a total of 4 graves.)

And I'll bet you that you can't prove even one extant grave currently exists at Belzec or Treblinka.

And I'll bet you that you can't prove even one mass grave containing just 1 / 1,000 of 1% - of the fraudulently alleged buried remains claims ever existed at Belzec or Treblinka.

Well I can not. I can not even prove that Kola's dig at Belzec in 1997 found ANY human remains. No photos. No lab analysis exists. Just pencil drawings.
Do mass graves exist at Belzec that contain "corpses in wax fat transformation"?

If the holocaust lobby wants me to stop being a revisionist, they should have then, and should forever now, they should fund PROPER ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIGS and not this hoax shit that passes for science. VIDEO EVIDENCE OF WHAT KOLA FOUND IS LACKING. SO IS PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE. ERGO, THERE IS NO PROOF OF ANY HUMAN REMAINS AT BELZEC.

Regarding the supposed Jews dead from the Einsatzgruppen...
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?

Debois is LYING LYING LYING when he claims he knows of hundreds of unopened mass graves. His lack of proper archaeological methods, and also the lack of creativity I have shown here,
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9171&start=15
PROVES the small graves that we have found SO FAR like the ones at Busk do not contain as many corpses as they claim. If they did, they would show it. They have not and will not due to BULLSHIT RELIGIOUS LAWS that are allowed to trump science.

When you say "destroyed" Werd, do you mean annihilated / obliterated?

Could you tell us how this process of annihilation worked at the camps Werd?

Can you show us just one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

And
Were these phantom mass graves "opened / dug up and destroyed"?

Why should I as a revisionist tell you what holocaust idiots believe as if I am one of them. There was no process of annihilation in the camp. :lol: Secondly, if the graves of Jews were opened up and burned to cover the tracks of the Einsatzgruppen, then there would be no graves to examine. Ariel photographs and GPR and LIDAR would have to be used at these alleged Einsatzgruppen created mass grave sites. And yet, nothing. Ariel photographs disprove the Babi Yar claims. Clearly the 2,000,000 IS IMPOSSIBLE!
Werd, if you believe communists Lukaszkiewicz and his "investigation team" then it is incumbent upon you to actually produce proof for their fall back claims. If what they claim is fact then that proof would be readily available, it would be blazing through the media 24/7.

I already said on page ago in this topic, I admit I can not prove anything Lukaszkiewicz wrote in his report about his alleged finds.
- If there were remains of the people in the ground as alleged then why can't they be shown?
- Why hasn't there been a verifiable excavation?
- Where are the photos of this claimed site? If true this would be a big time crime scene with huge promotional potential for the communists / Zionists. Photos are essential for any legit, actual forensic examination.
- What outside observers were brought in to verify the claimed finds?
- Why should Polish communists under the watchful eye of their masters, communist Soviets, be considered the least bit reliable?

NO PHOTOS. NO VIDEO EVIDENCE. NOTHING! I can't show it because the holocaust lobby can't show it either!
Werd,
You can't be serious in quoting the thoroughly debunked Franz Suchomel.
That liar has been demolished repeatedly at this forum and elsewhere, see:

'Franz Suchomel's 'confession' demolished by Jean-Francois Beaulieu'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9836

The Shoah must go on / Suchomel
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1204

Well I agree he is questionable. No doubt about it. But the claim that he shot some sick people to put them out of their misery is not proven by any document or photo. However, Morrison admitted it was possible. But possible does not mean did. I fully understand that. Given the pressure many German defendants were under, and that clear cases of perjury by Jews, Poles and Soviets WAS NEVER PUNISHED, no one has the right to pretend trials were fair. Ergo, so called confessions unless backed up by solid evidence ARE WORTHLESS. I am agreeing with the revisionist position. Because I am one.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Hannover » 4 years 4 months ago (Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:05 pm)

Werd:

So IOW, all that you posted in support of your position is curiously not your responsibility to back up.
Everything which you posted as 'proof' has been utterly debunked so now you absolve yourself of any responsibility for your posts.
Now that is truly bizarre. It would have been easier for you to just admit being wrong in the first place. :lol:

Go ahead and whine somewhere else about being a victim ... of your own errors. :roll:

Welcome to the big leagues.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Dresden » 4 years 4 months ago (Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:04 pm)

Mattogno has this to say about "Action 1005" in this article:

“Denying History”? – Denying Evidence!

The Phony “Convergence of Evidence” to “Prove” the “Holocaust.” A Review

By Carlo Mattogno

http://www.codoh.com/library/document/1756/

"Let us not say anything about the ghost-like “Action 1005,” which the authors talk about on p. 107, that is to say, the alleged unearthing and burning of the corpses from the mass graves under the direction of Paul Blobel. In spite of the enormous activity (to put it mildly) – 2,100,000 corpses unearthed from thousands of mass graves and burned in hundreds of places spread out across a territory of more than 1,200,000 square kilometers over thirteen months – there is neither documentary nor material evidence!"
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby EtienneSC » 5 months 4 days ago (Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:55 am)

This recent book looks like worth reviewing from a revisionist perspective:
“Aktion 1005”—Spurenbeseitigung von NS-Massenverbrechen 1942–1945: Eine “geheime Reichssache” im Spannungsfeld von Kriegswende und Propaganda: Spurenbeseitigung von NS-Massenverbrechen 1942–1945: Eine “geheime Reichssache” im Spannungsfeld von Kriegswende und Propaganda. Andrej Angrick. Göttingen: Wallstein, 2018. 2 vols., 1381 pp.

https://academic.oup.com/hgs/article-abstract/34/1/101/5860648
It covers some of the same area as Mattogno's recent book on the Einsatzgruppen. It looks pricey and possibly not worth the bother, but I'd appreciate hearing something impressionistic about the contents. The blurb says:
The reconstruction of a gigantic cover-up operation.

Behind the code name "Aktion 1005" is one of the most outrageous and secret events of the "Third Reich": In 1942, the top management issued the order to the "Reich Security Main Office" to make all mass graves in German-occupied Europe unrecognizable. The task was to find the murder sites, dig up the bodies, burn them and camouflage the grounds. The actual work was forced on Jews from the ghettos, prisoners of war and inmates. Attempts have also been made to destroy all available documents and other information that would have documented the genocide of European Jews, the murder of Soviet prisoners of war, the extermination of the Roma and the executions of Polish nationalists.
As a result of years of research, Andrej Angrick was able to reconstruct the scope of the cover-up campaigns as far as possible and to identify the perpetrators and the units involved. Last but not least, the author's goal is to make the few surviving witnesses heard. Her statements and memoirs stood and stand against the efforts to suppress and cover up the perpetrators and later Holocaust deniers.

So it seems like the "deniers" even make it onto the book cover!

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Lamprecht » 5 months 4 days ago (Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:12 am)

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


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