Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby EtienneSC » 4 months 4 weeks ago (Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:44 pm)

Thanks. The review says:
Beyond the perpetrators, only prisoner survivors could bear witness to the unspeakable crimes of Aktion 1005. Accordingly, the Nazis planned to murder every prisoner involved. Once assigned to Aktion 1005, Jewish or other prisoners were often chained together by foot manacles as they set about their work of wading into mass graves, digging out decomposing bodies, arranging the corpses on pyres, and setting them aflame. After two weeks or so of such work, the prisoners were murdered—the Nazis shot them or simply had them thrown alive into the flames—to prevent them from relaying what they had seen.

Angrick quotes at length from the harrowing accounts of the few survivors of Aktion 1005.

[...] Yet for some areas, there is almost no archival or other evidence on what Aktion 1005 did, or did not do.

Survivor testimony - that sounds more like the evidential basis of the Holocaust Studies we all know and love.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 4 weeks ago (Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:43 pm)

Limited Google Books preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=jcF3D ... &q&f=false

Limited Amazon Kindle Preview: https://www.amazon.com/Aktion-1005-Spur ... 07HDW7QST#

This seems to be the table of contents: https://web.archive.org/web/20200628233 ... 7961285/04 or http://archive.is/OIUK1
Inhalt

- Einleitung

- Prolog: das Scheitern des Unternehmens "Barbarossa" und der Weg zur "Aktion 1005"

1 - Das Jahr 1942: von der Verwirklichung der "Endlösung" zum Verwischen der Verbrechensspuren
1.1 - Ein Geheimauftrag und die Verschwiegenheit um Kulmhof
1.2 - Zu den Vernichtungslagern im Generalgouvernement
1.3 - Massaker und Lager in der besetzten Sowjetunion und in Galizien
1.4 - Die Lager Majdanek und Auschwitz-Birkenau
1.5 - Der Ausbau Birkenaus: Akteure und Wissenstransfer
1.6 - Zeit der Entscheidungen: Die Operation 1005 in den übrigen Vernichtungslagern
1.7 - Das Wissen der Welt - Himmlers Sorge?

2 - Das Jahr 1943: der Grosseinsatz im Süden der Sowjetunion
2.1 - Letzte Rückkehr nach Babij Jar
2.2 - Die Verbrechen der anderen: Katyn und Winniza versus Krasnodar und Charkow
2.3 - Der weitere Einsatz in der Ukraine: die Sonderkommandos 1005 und der Beitrag der lokalen Gestapodienststellen

3 - Brandschneisen im Gebiet der Heeresgruppe Mitte und in Weissrussland
3.1 - Im Militärverwaltungsgebiet: Einsatzkommandos auf dem Rückzug
3.2 - Das Sonderkommando 1005 Mitte in Weissrussland
3.3 - Der weite Weg nach Westen: die Operation 1005 im Bezirk Bialystok

4 - Spurenbeseitigung im Bereich der Heeresgruppe Nord und im Baltikum
4.1 - Vor den Toren Leningrads
4.2 - Im Kosmos der Lager: Blobels Mission in Estland
4.3 - Die Forts von Kaunas, die Tanks von Ponary: Zentren des Massenmordes in Litauen
4.4 - In konzentrischen Kreisen: die Operation 1005 in Lettland
4.5 - An den Grenzen des Reiches: die Operation 1005 und der Todesstreifen des Sonderkommandos Tilsit

5 - Im Generalgouvernement
5.1 - Galizien: der "Sand" und die Knochenmühle
5.2 - Das Vorgehen im Distrikt Krakau
5.3 - Als hätte es die "Endlösung" nie gegeben: Distrikt Lublin
5.4 - Die Operation 1005 in Zentralpolen: der Distrikt Radom
5.5 - Warschau: von der Zerstörung des Ghettos zum Warschauer Aufstand

6 - Der vergessene Feldzug: die Spurenverwischung in Südosteuropa
6.1 Brandwolken von Semlin bis Jasenovac
6.2 - Der ferne Tod: zu den Deportationen aus Italien, Griechenland und Ungarn in die Gaskammern von Birkenau

7 - Das letzte Territorium: 1005 in den Grenzen des Reiches
7.1 - Der Vormarsch der Roten Armee I: "Wetterstellen" im Warthegau und die Wiedereröffnung von Kulmhof
7.2 - Der Vormarsch der Roten Armee II: der Fall von Ost- und Westpreussen
7.3 - Das Ende von Auschwitz und der Zusammenbruch des WVHA-Lagersystems im Reich
7.4 - Agonie des Systems

- Epilog: von Herrenmenschen und "Figuren"

- Nachwort und Dank

- Anhang
--- Abbildungsverzeichnis
--- Abkürzungen und Akronyme
--- Verzeichnis der benutzten Archive und Quellenbestände
--- Literaturverzeichnis
--- Register

Google Translate (imperfect, but good enough to know what they're about):
Content

- Introduction

- Prologue: the failure of the "Barbarossa" company and the path to "Action 1005"

1 - The year 1942: from the realization of the "final solution" to blurring the traces of crime
1.1 - A secret order and secrecy around Kulmhof
1.2 - The extermination camps in the General Government [occupied Poland]
1.3 - Massacres and camps in the occupied Soviet Union and in Galicia
1.4 - The Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau camps
1.5 - Birkenau's expansion: actors and knowledge transfer
1.6 - Time of decisions: Operation 1005 in the other extermination camps
1.7 - The knowledge of the world - Himmler's concern?

2 - The year 1943: the major mission in the south of the Soviet Union
2.1 - Last return to Babij Jar
2.2 - The crimes of others: Katyn and Vinnitsa versus Krasnodar and Kharkov
2.3 - The further deployment in Ukraine: the Sonderkommandos 1005 and the contribution of the local Gestapo offices

3 - Firebreaks in the Army Group Center area and in Belarus
3.1 - In the military administrative area: commandos on retreat
3.2 - The Sonderkommando 1005 Mitte in Belarus
3.3 - The long way to the west: Operation 1005 in the Bialystok district

4 - Removal of traces in the Army Group North and in the Baltic States
4.1 - At the gates of Leningrad
4.2 - In the cosmos of the camps: Blobel's mission in Estonia
4.3 - The Kaunas forts, the Ponary tanks: centers of mass murder in Lithuania
4.4 - In concentric circles: Operation 1005 in Latvia
4.5 - At the borders of the empire: Operation 1005 and the death strip of the Tilsit detail

5 - In the General Government
5.1 - Galicia: the "sand" and the bone mill
5.2 - The procedure in the Kraków district
5.3 - As if the "final solution" never existed: Lublin District
5.4 - Operation 1005 in central Poland: the Radom district
5.5 - Warsaw: from the destruction of the ghetto to the Warsaw Uprising

6 - The forgotten campaign: the blurring of traces in Southeast Europe
6.1 - Fire clouds from Semlin to Jasenovac
6.2 - The distant death: to the deportations from Italy, Greece and Hungary to the gas chambers of Birkenau

7 - The last territory: 1005 in the borders of the empire
7.1 - The advance of the Red Army I: "Weather spots" in the Warthegau and the reopening of Kulmhof
7.2 - The advance of the Red Army II: the fall of East and West Prussia
7.3 - The end of Auschwitz and the collapse of the WVHA camp system in the Reich
7.4 - System agony

- Epilogue: by men and "figures"

- Afterword and thanks

- Attachment
--- List of figures
--- Abbreviations and acronyms
--- Directory of the archives and source files used
--- Bibliography
--- Register

Hopefully, we can get a full version of the book, or even better: a decent English translation.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby HMSendeavour » 4 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:45 am)

Lamprecht wrote:Hopefully, we can get a full version of the book, or even better: a decent English translation.


Unlikely, this is the kind of study that is kept away from global publication in order for the academic establishment to keep what's written, their sources, hard to access. Especially hard for those half inclined to go after them, impossible for those of us who might because we cannot speak the language. Making books harder to get because they're expensive, and more so making sure they can only be read by a certain niche of people is the perfect way to obfuscate the truth without obviously looking like you're preventing historical discourse. The establishment thrives of this kind of deception and source hogging. Historiography is nothing more than a religious faith based establishment, except it comes with the assurance of academic footnotes that in reality nobody has the time or money to buy, read, verify and overall correct any problems they see.

We're all forced to accept whatever narrative the incestuous ivory tower academics produce. Even when, like at Cambridge, they fire people who they consider "right wing" and promote people who want to exterminate the white race. Their untrustworthy nature becomes overt, but the masses can do nothing because there is no alternative. We put hope in people whom we have to just blindly have faith aren't lying through their fucking teeth.

I think it would be a good idea get knowledge of this book to Mattogno, presuming he doesn't already know about it. I have emailed Germar Rudolf regarding it. Hopefully it can be used as a bibliographical source as it isn't contained in Mattognos Einsatzgruppen book which also dealt with Aktion 1005 and came out in late 2018.
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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:18 am)

Yes it's unlikely to be translated into English any time soon; it is over 1000 pages long. However, revisionists should address it at some point as it will be pushed as some sort of authoritative work on the topic. As for the price, what I have seen online is $50-80, not really all that bad. People pay substantially more for college textbooks that they use for a few months (which I know is a racket, but is this not one too?).

It is just under 2 years old, so there's not much going on about it right now. If it really is mostly all just eyewitness testimony, there's really not much to say about it either. I believe when I asked Germar about Mattogno's Einsatz + 1005 book, he said that he translated an earlier version of the book into English. Eventually, the book will be updated, I'm sure by that time it will at least address some of the things contained in this new book.

HMSendeavour wrote:
Lamprecht wrote:Hopefully, we can get a full version of the book, or even better: a decent English translation.


Unlikely, this is the kind of study that is kept away from global publication in order for the academic establishment to keep what's written, their sources, hard to access. Especially hard for those half inclined to go after them, impossible for those of us who might because we cannot speak the language. Making books harder to get because they're expensive, and more so making sure they can only be read by a certain niche of people is the perfect way to obfuscate the truth without obviously looking like you're preventing historical discourse. The establishment thrives of this kind of deception and source hogging. Historiography is nothing more than a religious faith based establishment, except it comes with the assurance of academic footnotes that in reality nobody has the time or money to buy, read, verify and overall correct any problems they see.

We're all forced to accept whatever narrative the incestuous ivory tower academics produce. Even when, like at Cambridge, they fire people who they consider "right wing" and promote people who want to exterminate the white race. Their untrustworthy nature becomes overt, but the masses can do nothing because there is no alternative. We put hope in people whom we have to just blindly have faith aren't lying through their fucking teeth.

I think it would be a good idea get knowledge of this book to Mattogno, presuming he doesn't already know about it. I have emailed Germar Rudolf regarding it. Hopefully it can be used as a bibliographical source as it isn't contained in Mattognos Einsatzgruppen book which also dealt with Aktion 1005 and came out in late 2018.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby HMSendeavour » 4 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:13 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:It is just under 2 years old, so there's not much going on about it right now. If it really is mostly all just eyewitness testimony, there's really not much to say about it either. I believe when I asked Germar about Mattogno's Einsatz + 1005 book, he said that he translated an earlier version of the book into English. Eventually, the book will be updated, I'm sure by that time it will at least address some of the things contained in this new book.


Mattogno is writing a book specifically about 1005? I am aware that before the Einsatzgruppen book was published, it was halted in translation for further revision. Some threads from that time are kind of interesting. But yeah, I would think you're right, when the book receives an update it will probably be expanded to include whatever new information need be added.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Lamprecht » 4 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:49 pm)

His Einsatz book had a big section on 1005 I thought. I'd have to double check
HMSendeavour wrote:
Lamprecht wrote:It is just under 2 years old, so there's not much going on about it right now. If it really is mostly all just eyewitness testimony, there's really not much to say about it either. I believe when I asked Germar about Mattogno's Einsatz + 1005 book, he said that he translated an earlier version of the book into English. Eventually, the book will be updated, I'm sure by that time it will at least address some of the things contained in this new book.


Mattogno is writing a book specifically about 1005? I am aware that before the Einsatzgruppen book was published, it was halted in translation for further revision. Some threads from that time are kind of interesting. But yeah, I would think you're right, when the book receives an update it will probably be expanded to include whatever new information need be added.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby HMSendeavour » 4 months 3 weeks ago (Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:His Einsatz book had a big section on 1005 I thought. I'd have to double check


Yes indeed it does.
Now what does it mean for the independent expert witness Van Pelt? In his eyes he had two possibilities. Either to confirm the Holocaust story, or to go insane. - Germar Rudolf, 13th IHR Conference

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Archie » 3 weeks 4 days ago (Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:55 am)

The Shermer and Grobman book has a part about this Aktion 1005. The only source listed is the Spector article, the one Muehlenkamp regards as "seminal." If this is legit, one wonders why we had to wait until 1990 for such a "seminal" article to appear. This thing about the Germans covering up their crimes is actually very old and was a motif in the Soviet propaganda. The only thing new here seems to be that they've tried to dress it up with this "Aktion 1005" business to make it sound more credible, i.e., like it was a well-documented operation.

The Spector article is here: https://academic.oup.com/hgs/article-abstract/5/2/157/755977

Muehlenkamp tries to pretend that because there are supposedly some documents with the character string "1005" that this actually proves something important. But whether there is or isn't wartime documentation for the mere existence of something called operation 1005, the critical question is regarding the details and the scale of this supposed program and what the sources are for those details. This is a typical Muehlenkamp shell game.

One source cited is the affidavit of Paul Blobel from the NMT Eisatzgruppen case. I found these two relevant sentences.
In the fall of 1942 I was assigned to go to the occupied Eastern Territories as Mueller’s deputy, and to wipe out the traces of the mass graves of people executed by the Einsatzgruppen. This was my task until summer of 1944.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/blobeltest.html

From what I saw, this is actually their best citation. At least this Blobel statement sounds broadly like their Aktion 1005, albeit it's very brief and offers no details regarding the number of bodies (in fact Blobel flatly denies the high body count later in the same statement), the method of corpse disposal, etc. But this is only a postwar confession. From what I've seen they don't have any wartime documents that are even this explicit. So where do all the critical details and embellishments come from? Survivor testimony, naturally.

Once the removal of the bodies in the death-camps was under way, Blobel started to take care of the mass graves where the victims of the Einsatzgruppen were buried. He went to Kiev, where in September 1941 he had been responsible for the murder of the local Jews. He knew the number and the place of the graves there.

In the spring of 1943 Blobel returned to the occupied Soviet territories, where he began to organize Operation 1005. He started at the Janowska camp in Lvov. Outside the camp in the area of 'Piaski' (sands) the Jews of Lvov and its surroundings were buried. It seems that Blobel visited Katzmann, the Senior Commander of the SS and Police in Galicia district, in the first half of 1943, to coordinate the start of the operation there. The detailed operation in Janowska camp is known from the testimony of Leon Weliczker, a prisoner who worked there and survived.

Story time!
The work there was organized as follows: a group of prisoners opened the graves and exhumed the bodies. A second group carried the bodies on stretchers and put them on the bonfire. A prisoner called Brandmeister, fed the fire with logs saturated with burning fluids (oil, gasoline, etc.). Another one made a note of the number of the bodies that were burned. A third group sifted the ashes, ground the remaining bones, collected the valuables found in the ashes, and scattered the ashes. At the height of this work some 2000 bodies were burned daily. After the graves were emptied, the terrain was reconstructed by leveling the ground, sowing seeds and planting plants.

We have the usual story about burning all the bodies with wood in open-air. Not believable at the scale that's being alleged.
The work of this Sonderkommando took a relatively long time. Its sub-units were sent into the countryside to burn bodies there. The Jewish prisoners were not changed, because the Germans did not want to waste time on teaching new prisoners the work. The German commander promised them that they would stay alive. To allay their fears he provided them with good food, alcoholic drink, new clothes and shoes. But the prisoners did not fall for this ruse, and headed by the Jewish kapo they started to plan an escape. According to the plan, the prisoners had to strangle the few policemen who guarded them at night, and then take over the tent where the other guards slept with their weapons. They started to implement their plan on 20 November 1943, but stumbled from the beginning. The first policeman who was attacked managed to shout out before he was strangled. His shouts alarmed the other guards, and they opened fire on the escapees. Many of the escapees were shot or caught. Only a few succeeded in escaping and survived until the liberation. Among them was Leon Weliczker.

Babi-Yar is a ravine in the northwest of Kiev, where the Jewish and Christian cemeteries were located before the war. It was not chosen by accident. On 29-30 September 1941, according to his own report, Blobel carried out the slaughter of 33,771 Jews there. Later, thousands of Jews in hiding, tens of thousands of Soviet prisoners-of-war, and thousands of civilians were murdered there. According to the Soviet Investigation Commission of the Nazi Crimes, the number of victims reached 100,000.

This whole issue really hinges on the Babi Yar claims. There's a circularity here where if you believe in Babi Yar you necessarily have to believe in this Aktion 1005. It's the only way to save the story. This is a tacit admission that there's no physical evidence for Babi Yar.

Spector makes some telling admissions in the conclusion.
Operation 1005 in the occupied territories of the Soviet Union, Poland and Yugoslavia was the final stage of the enormous Nazi crime — the murder of millions. This stage was designated to efface the crime, to hide it from the eyes of the world. The documentation on this operation is scarce, because of the secrecy involved. The verdict of the International Military Tribunal contains little information about it. The American Military Tribunal in case 9 (Einsatzgruppen case), where Paul Blobel was put on trial, tried him only as the commander of Einsatzkommando 4a. His interrogation and depositions devote only a few lines to Operation 1005 and hence missed the opportunity to interrogate the commander of Operation 1005.

The interrogators and the judges tried to expand on the details of the operation, but with little success due to the scarcity of documentation.

The removal of the mass graves created difficulties in compiling statistical estimates of the number of victims. The Commissions to investigate Nazi Crimes in the Soviet Union and Poland opened up mass graves, in order to estimate the number of bodies. However, where the graves had been emptied this was impossible. This is true at Babi-Yar in Kiev where the bodies were removed, and hence, there are gaps between the estimates made by the Commission and by other sources.

The Nazis were not successful in removing the signs of the murder because of the vast numbers, the wide distribution of the mass graves, and because of the swift advance of the Soviet army. Moreover, desperate acts of escape by Jewish prisoners enabled survivors to tell the story. Knowing that they would be killed, they decided to escape at any cost and to tell of what they had seen. Those who remained alive, described Operation1005 — the Nazis' effort to erase their crimes.

Right there in the conclusion, it says the documentation is "scarce" (read: nonexistent on the important details) and that they know about it from the survivors. Mattogno and Rudolf say the same thing.

My conclusion here is that this Spector article is a dud and Muehlenkamp and Shermer and Grobman are all bluffing, as usual. If they had good documents they would use them.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Clay » 3 weeks 3 days ago (Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:19 am)

Archie wrote:Right there in the conclusion, it says the documentation is "scarce" (read: nonexistent on the important details) and that they know about it from the survivors. Mattogno and Rudolf say the same thing.

My conclusion here is that this Spector article is a dud and Muehlenkamp and Shermer and Grobman are all bluffing, as usual. If they had good documents they would use them.


They admit that their "documentation is scarce" yet ignore the fact that they are on record alleging this fairytale has been scientifically proven by forensic archaeologists via the discovery of huge mass graves containing massive amounts of human remains.

These three frauds can be exposed on this issue as easily as asking them to answer these simple questions:

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=2295820&postcount=2846

The fact that they refuse to answer these questions, refuse to put their money where their mealy mouths are and refuse to debate Greg Gerdes proves that they are not only frauds, but cowards as well.

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby HMSendeavour » 3 weeks 3 days ago (Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:26 am)

Archie wrote:Muehlenkamp tries to pretend that because there are supposedly some documents with the character string "1005" that this actually proves something important. But whether there is or isn't wartime documentation for the mere existence of something called operation 1005, the critical question is regarding the details and the scale of this supposed program and what the sources are for those details. This is a typical Muehlenkamp shell game.


Perhaps Robbie Rotten et al. should spend more time trying to respond to the devastating dismantling of their book by Mattogno, Graf and Kues rather than making hollow arguments that make no appreciable difference in the debate over the Holocaust. If they want to be taken seriously that is...Which seems hard to do. Just try and read their "book" (that was never actually published as a book) filled with unprofessional slurs directed at those they make no attempt to hide their contempt for.

Archie wrote:One source cited is the affidavit of Paul Blobel from the NMT Eisatzgruppen case. I found these two relevant sentences.
In the fall of 1942 I was assigned to go to the occupied Eastern Territories as Mueller’s deputy, and to wipe out the traces of the mass graves of people executed by the Einsatzgruppen. This was my task until summer of 1944.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/blobeltest.html


Not only is this a post-war testimony, but this could very well be true and offer nothing for the Holocaust narrative. "The people" executed by the Einsatzgruppen is vague. He doesn't say "The Jews" or mention that they were being exterminated. This quote could just as easily apply to the killing of partisans.

Their sorry attempts at insisting this story is true is hard to watch.
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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Clay » 3 weeks 2 days ago (Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:31 am)

Werd wrote:

I would say that Romanov may be correct... Romanov may be correct... Rudolf may also be wrong... This article by Romanov article looks very convincing to me. I know Mattogno and Rudolf will probably ignore this so if anyone wants to point out why Romanov is wrong and why I am failing to see any alleged error of his, please point it out.


If Romanov "may be correct" then why is he so afraid to debate Greg Gerdes on this issue?

If you are convinced that Romanov "may be correct" and Rudolf "may also be wrong" then why are you so afraid to debate Greg Gerdes on this issue?

Why don't you and Romanov team up and prove that you are correct?

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Clay » 3 weeks 2 days ago (Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:34 am)

Werd wrote:Well nobody denies graves were opened.


What graves Werd?

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Clay » 3 weeks 2 days ago (Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:36 am)

Morrison wrote:Hannover:

The Aktion 1005 allegations are part of the unsupportable '2,000,000 Jews shot by the Einsatzgruppen' tale.
So, is that:
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?


Why don't we ask Werd, as he is now the self-proclaimed best researcher in revisionism?

He implies over at another site that the remains of thousands of Jews exist in each of the Aktion Reinhardt camps
and explicitly says:

"I bet Belzec and Treblinka had at least a few mass graves."

I'll take that bet Werd.

I'll bet you that you can't prove that the remains of 10 people currently exist at Belzec, Chelmno or Treblinka.

I'll bet you that you can't prove that the remains of 20 people currently exist at Sobibor. (Where a total of 10 skeletons have been located / proven to exist in a total of 4 graves.)

And I'll bet you that you can't prove even one extant grave currently exists at Belzec or Treblinka.

And I'll bet you that you can't prove even one mass grave containing just 1 / 1,000 of 1% - of the fraudulently alleged buried remains claims ever existed at Belzec or Treblinka.


Morrison, did Werd ever muster the courage to accept your bet?

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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Archie » 3 weeks 1 day ago (Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:10 pm)

Clay wrote:
Werd wrote:

I would say that Romanov may be correct... Romanov may be correct... Rudolf may also be wrong... This article by Romanov article looks very convincing to me. I know Mattogno and Rudolf will probably ignore this so if anyone wants to point out why Romanov is wrong and why I am failing to see any alleged error of his, please point it out.


If Romanov "may be correct" then why is he so afraid to debate Greg Gerdes on this issue?

If you are convinced that Romanov "may be correct" and Rudolf "may also be wrong" then why are you so afraid to debate Greg Gerdes on this issue?

Why don't you and Romanov team up and prove that you are correct?


If I'm reading Werd right, I think he generally agrees with the revisionist view. He seems to be asking the more narrow question of whether it's true that "the designation 'Sonderkommando 1005' was invented by the Soviets." In terms of the Holocaust debate, I don't think the issue raised is of any real importance. That is to say, the important question is: did the Germans really go back and dig up something like 2,000,000+ bodies buried all over Eastern Europe and burn them? No. Because that's completely ridiculous. Do the documents cited by Romanov prove that the Germans dug up and burned 2,000,000 bodies? No, they don't.

Romanov himself actually admits that the issue is not very important. "...even seen from the "revisionist" perspective, there was no need whatsoever to state positively that the designation "1005" was a Soviet fabrication. Mere expression of doubt, or re-interpretation of the designation would have been more than enough."

Clay
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Re: Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

Postby Clay » 3 weeks 1 day ago (Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:15 pm)

Archie wrote:If I'm reading Werd right, I think he generally agrees with the revisionist view.


Werd:

Well nobody denies graves were opened.


It appears that Werd not only believes that "graves were opened." but he claims that "nobody denies" it.

Which begs the questions:

Werd, what graves are you talking about exactly? Where? When? How? How many?

What happened to the bodies when the "graves were opened"?


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