astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

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Breker
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astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Breker » 3 years 11 months ago (Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:38 am)

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Media darling and astrophysicist Mr. Neil deGrasse Tyson said of purported eyewitnesses:
We know, not only from research and psychology but simple empirical evidence in the history of science, that the lowest form of evidence that exists in this world is eyewitness testimony. Which is scary, because that's some of our highest form of evidence in a court of law.
Well now. That is especially true when "eyewitnesses" make claims of actions and events which are not remotely possible.
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Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Dresden » 3 years 11 months ago (Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:16 pm)

Do you have a link that you can share with us.....or should we just "google" it?
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Breker » 3 years 11 months ago (Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:38 pm)

Steve F wrote:Do you have a link that you can share with us.....or should we just "google" it?

Sure, http://www.allreadable.com/5e073Ngn
Apparently Mr. deGrasse Tyson has made numerous statements in different forms where he shoots down "eyewitnesses", here's another: http://kalinbooks.com/2012/neil-degrass ... testimony/
And yes, for more just Google it
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Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Sannhet » 3 years 11 months ago (Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:47 pm)

I have had occasional discussions with a close friend on Holocaust Revisionism. He has often seemed receptive, but never seems to quite get there.

One particular time, we got to talking about it and I thought I had nearly got him to come around to the light of clear thinking on this question -- rejection of the lies piled upon lies. Finally, though, he said that he believed in the Holocaust because of what an elderly Dutch man of his acquaintance, who had been living in Netherlands through the war, had told him. He said he didn't think that man would lie.

I backed away a little, lest I insult the man's acquaintance and seem callous, "Oh, they're all just lying." It seems weak and rude, especially without knowing what the man was saying. Later on, I did say that while we should believe someone's own experiences, generally speaking, we should also keep a bigger picture in mind. There were definitely no alleged "extermination camps" in at least a 1,000 km radius of the Netherlands, and not even orthodox 'court' historians say there were. How can this Dutch man's "eyewitness testimony" be even remotely believable as proof of the standard, Hollywood-enforced post-1970s Holocaust story? I don't think my argument convinced him. He remains at least half stuck in Holocaust fantasy land.

The elderly Dutch man, by the way, turned out to be in the area on the day of our discussion, and we ran across him as we went around that day. He chatted a few minutes. My friend casually brought up the war, and I think he even asked something like "Is it true what they say? About the Jews?" The man said "Oh, yes." He made a few remarks. He was talkative and friendly, and of the type that relishes such attention. His demeanor reminded me a little of a gentile Abraham Bomba, actually (one of the key eyewitnesses, as seen in One Third of the Holocuat). And this, friends, is the key, isn't it. The Dutch man knows well that repeating lines of the "Hollywood" Holocaust story and vaguely claiming that he was there will get him attention, sympathy, even admiration from well-trained Americans, despite him having nothing in particular to say about it. He brought up some vague memories about seeing people arrested (a lot of that was going on, on all sides, through the 1940s. Millions of German men were kept prisoner for years after the war, for example).

I wonder what to do about such irrationality... This Dutch man's eyewitness testimony, so called, was literally worthless towards "proving the 'Hollywood' Holocaust story," but many people believe such testimony trumps scientific evidence and so on.

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Hannover » 3 years 11 months ago (Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:18 pm)

Sannhet said:
I wonder what to do about such irrationality... This Dutch man's eyewitness testimony, so called, was literally worthless towards "proving the 'Hollywood' Holocaust story," but many people believe such testimony trumps scientific evidence and so on.
People generally resist admitting that they have been duped on just about anything. Their sense of pride fights wildly, especially something that has such large implications as the bogus 'holocaust' storyline. The lies of '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are now the underpinning of much of western politics and culture, it takes courage to renounce the scam. But look at it this way, that guy will never be the same. He may throw a hissy fit, but the seed is planted.

I think you nailed why he lies and then believes the narrative he has conjured up; he "relishes such attention". There are also financial & political motives while fantasizing about being part of 'history'. Plus, his advanced age does not help. Senility & dementia can be a big problem for the elderly.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Mulegino1 » 3 years 11 months ago (Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:32 pm)

Tyson is right, no doubt. But I doubt very seriously he would not make an exception for the big "H". Remember, this was a "singular event", i.e., a singularity similar to the infinitesimal duration of cosmology's own "singularity" (the contraction of all matter, time, and space) which preceded the so called "Big Bang". Hopefully I am wrong, but would he dare to disparage the venerated martyrs of contemporaneity, and destroy his career in the process?

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby hermod » 3 years 11 months ago (Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:53 am)

Sannhet wrote:He said he didn't think that man would lie.


Isn't this what faith is based on? Holocaustians should at least be honest enough to admit that their beliefs are based on faith rather than on physically demonstrated facts (i.e. on science) as often alleged. Holo-believers are of course free to believe in whatever they want, but they should be exposed as the religious bigots they are. And Holohoaxsters should be regarded as priests, academic priests in Holohoax-cult theocracies if they value their so dear academic degree too much to drop it, but still priests.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Hektor » 3 years 11 months ago (Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:41 pm)

We know, not only from research and psychology but simple empirical evidence in the history of science, that the lowest form of evidence that exists in this world is eyewitness testimony. Which is scary, because that's some of our highest form of evidence in a court of law.

Is the legal profession itself taking this really that serious? They actually ought to know that there is so many problems with "testimony", especially in very controversial matters. Physical evidence (and physical law as well as plausibility) beat documentary evidence. And even documents would beat "eyewitnesses" any time. So I wonder what his statement is based on some scholarly statements or perhaps just personal feelings, since almost everyone seems to be believing in the power of eyewitness testimony.

Hannover wrote:Sannhet said:
I wonder what to do about such irrationality... This Dutch man's eyewitness testimony, so called, was literally worthless towards "proving the 'Hollywood' Holocaust story," but many people believe such testimony trumps scientific evidence and so on.
People generally resist admitting that they have been duped on just about anything. Their sense of pride fights wildly, especially something that has such large implications as the bogus 'holocaust' storyline. The lies of '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are now the underpinning of much of western politics and culture, it takes courage to renounce the scam. But look at it this way, that guy will never be the same. He may throw a hissy fit, but the seed is planted.
As for the Holocaust I found that people don't believe it due to knowledge of the eyewitness-testimony. They barely know what witnesses did say. What persuaded them was "the fotos" (usually from the Western camp) and the shear fact that anyone else seems to believe it. It's deep psychology and a form of group think, here the perceived absence of counterarguments or "authorities" contradicting Holocaust assertions is enormously helpful to reinforce the narrative. Naturally having been spoken to by a supposed "Holocaust survivor" is enormously capturing to a gullible audience. A lot of it comes down to the emperor new cloths effect. "The smart people say", "nobody does seem to question it".

Hannover wrote:I think you nailed why he lies and then believes the narrative he has conjured up; he "relishes such attention". There are also financial & political motives while fantasizing about being part of 'history'. Plus, his advanced age does not help. Senility & dementia can be a big problem for the elderly.
...
It's however funny how the flock of Holocaust believers is quick to point out that anyone questioning their pet narrative must have some ulterior motive in doing so. Indeed "motives" are pretty irrelevant, when dealing with hard facts. 1+1=2 no matter whether one has ulterior motive in saying so, or a maths professor disputes it.

Aging may play a role, but take the effect of simple distance in time from the supposed event. Can you memorize what you experienced 20 years ago? I'd have difficulties in doing that. There may be two or three events I recall, but hardly in exact detail to claim that I'd be 100% certain on everything. Now add to this real traumatic experiences, media presence, apparent believe of authority figures, etc. That should be enough to produce distorted memories in my book.

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Sannhet » 3 years 11 months ago (Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:19 pm)

Hannover wrote:People generally resist admitting that they have been duped on just about anything. Their sense of pride fights wildly

I think you're right.

I have some familiarity with the so-called Kriegsschuldfrage (War Guilt Question) debate that raged in the 1920s, though I'm sure many here are much more knowledgeable. I think it is relevant here.

In 1918 and 1919, everyone was saying the German Empire was solely responsible for the war, and so needed to pay a heavy price, reparations, occupation, loss of territory, whatever -- humiliation. Revisionist scholars in the United States and elsewhere argued this was likely wrong, and when all the facts came out, proved it to be wrong, that Germany was in no way uniquely guilty, and that if one wanted to be pedantic, the Entente powers (especially Russia) were demonstrably more guilty at mishandling the diplomatic crisis of July 1914 that led to general war (the diplomatic records were released in full as the 1920s proceeded and the revisionist case was overwhelming). Just a knockout win for the revisionists. The immediate postwar assertion of unique and total German war guilt (which was even written into the Versailles Treaty) was wrong, completely wrong. Still, many historians fought to maintain the myth. They argued, from a position of increasing weakness as the 1920s went on, that the Germans were uniquely guilty, and damn all the evidence. These historians were letting their "sense of pride fight wildly."

Those Kriegsschuldfrage debates are now ninety years in the past. What is the legacy? I am not sure. I think most Westerners today vaguely believe that "German militarism" (mostly, if not uniquely) caused the 1914 war, but this is probably because of -- frankly, and to be brief about it -- Holocaust ideology spilling over. Thus an example of:
Hannover wrote:The lies of '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are now the underpinning of much of western politics and culture


On the subject of 1914-1918 revisionism vs. 1939-1945 revisionism, I would be interested in a scholarly treatment comparing the two, if anyone has one available.

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Sannhet » 3 years 11 months ago (Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:29 pm)

hermod wrote:
Sannhet wrote:He said he didn't think that man would lie.


Isn't this what faith is based on? Holocaustians should at least be honest enough to admit that their beliefs are based on faith rather than on physically demonstrated facts (i.e. on science) as often alleged. Holo-believers are of course free to believe in whatever they want, but they should be exposed as the religious bigots they are. And Holohoaxsters should be regarded as priests, academic priests in Holohoax-cult theocracies if they value their so dear academic degree too much to drop it, but still priests.

I appreciate what you're saying, but it is true that we all "believe, by faith" an enormous amount, and always have and always will. We trust our friends and family, for example. Taking a radical-skeptical approach to what close friends say (can I prove that what my friend said is true?) is not any proper way to live life, and unreasonable to ask people to do.

The 'Holocaust Witnesses' (or 'Survivors') phenomenon of one's acquaintance is just one or two steps beyond that. I do think this is a dilemma for revisionists. There is no strong position to argue from, if you seem to be saying that someone's experiences are just "lies." (In the case of the Dutch gentleman I wrote about above, I don't doubt, either, that he saw people detained by occupation authorities. It's just that such a memory literally proves nothing at all but that the Germans arrested people, which we already all knew.)

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Re: astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on purported "eyewitnesses"

Postby Sannhet » 3 years 11 months ago (Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:36 pm)

Hektor wrote:As for the Holocaust I found that people don't believe it due to knowledge of the eyewitness-testimony. They barely know what witnesses did say. What persuaded them was "the fotos" (usually from the Western camp) and the shear fact that anyone else seems to believe it. It's deep psychology and a form of group think, here the perceived absence of counterarguments or "authorities" contradicting Holocaust assertions is enormously helpful to reinforce the narrative. Naturally having been spoken to by a supposed "Holocaust survivor" is enormously capturing to a gullible audience. A lot of it comes down to the emperor new cloths effect. "The smart people say", "nobody does seem to question it".

Great points, Hektor.

I picked up a history book on European history (unrelated to the Holocaust) last week, and turned to one chapter that seemed interesting. In the first paragraph already was something like this: "[blah blah blah] the Nazis, whose unbelievable barbarism and cruelty at places like Belsen and Buchenwald shocked the world." He was comparing something or other to the Nazis (the ultimate evil), even though it wasn't directly relevant to his main topic.

Belsen and Buchenwald were not extermination camps! No orthodox historian even says so! The author is simply ignorant, as most people are on this question. I closed the book with a laugh. Seventy years later, people are still printing ignorant lies. It is incredible. The author, who may be a reasonable and educated person, just remembered those photos when writing those few words...


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