2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

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Reviso
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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Reviso » 3 years 8 months ago (Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:06 am)

Thames Darwin wrote:
What makes you think Polish Jews sympathized with the Soviets, other than that they were against the Nazis?


If you take Jan Karski seriously, look at a report he wrote in 1940 about Jews denouncing Poles to the Bolsheviks, quoted in Tadeusz Piotrowski (en), Poland's Holocaust: Ethnic Strife, Collaboration with Occupying Forces and Genocide in the Second Republic, 1918-1947, McFarland, 1998, p. 52
https://books.google.be/books?id=hC0-dk ... 2&lpg=PA52
R.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Lohengrin » 3 years 8 months ago (Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:24 pm)

Next I’ll try to give a provisional recapitulation of results so far in this thread. but first a short reaction on contributions still given:

@borjastick: “I would argue that to change ones name one would have to prove Polish nationality.”

A logical supplement in treating the name-changing procedure. (Thanks borjastick for the link to the book by Anna Cichopek-Gajraj; though it’s pretty expensive, I ordered it because it gives useful information. I will study it).

@”I don't want to tell Lohengrin how to suck eggs but I would suggest he contacts the author and publisher of the book he quotes from. Ask them for their sources and documentary evidence. Then contact the Polish government information office and find out by a freedom of information request, the details of the name change decree and the take up of it. This may require a Polish citizen to do this on his behalf.
Finally contact either the Vatican press office and or Pope John Paul 11s office to see if any verification of his intervention can be provided.”


I can’t contact the author, and don’t speak Polish. Perhaps borjastick himself can “suck this egg”?

@”This is important work, the results of which could demolish the holocaust once and for all. No 3m Polish dead = no holocaust.”

Agree. Let’s continue to bring clearance about it.

@Werd: “The inevitable question from the gas chamber mongers will be, "Why didn't all these Jews with name changes come forward?"

Good question. Maybe because nobody asked, maybe one doesn’t change his name to later make the old one public, maybe it is “Holocaust-denying” or “anti-semitic”.

@“What I would like to see are the primary documents of the WJO demanding the Pope to urge Poland to hide the contents of these archives. If we find those and if we can somehow verify that millions of Jews DID use this procedure THE HOLOCAUST HOAX IS FINISHED ONCE AND FOR ALL!”

Certainly, but I think it’s also sufficient if only we can establish these archives are closed until today.

@“So is this revisionist author insinuating that during world war two, there were 2.5 million Jews who kept their Jewish names until 1945 and the Nazis just didn't notice them during the war and thus did not inter them? Or did they manage to round them all up and just not kill them in gas chambers?"

I think this is about Polish Jews who first fled to the USSR, survived there and after War came back to Poland. Also Jews survived in Poland (in camps, half-Jews, mixed marriages, etc.). (Thanks for useful links Werd).

@Carto’s Cutlass Supreme: “I'm skeptical regarding the assertion of this thread. I haven't seen good documentation. That 2.5 million Jews did this in Poland is not believable to me. I think most name changers did it simply by deciding to change their name. Yitzhak Rudnicki, changes his name to the Mideastern sounding Yitzhak Arad. I doubt he filed papers, he just plain did it, and if he did file anything, probably in Israel. I think on entering a new country is when most name changes happen.”

It’s good to be skeptical. As revisionists we have too. If this is “believable” isn’t relevant: it has to be further investigated. Important is, what were the reasons for this special Polish/communist Decree in 1945, are these archives still closed today, for what reason, how many name-changes happened, who did so and what for?

@Atigun: “We're all pulling for you, Lohengrin, but I'm sure that you can understand that your information is such a game changer that it must be verified.”

Of course I understand.

@Reviso:
Thanks for your link with useful information.

In my next contribution I hope to publish some facts which enable revisionists to add name-changing to the many arguments diminishing the “Six Million” and “Three Million missed Polish Jews” fraud.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Free Speech » 3 years 8 months ago (Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:38 am)

Butz mentioned name change for many of the "missing" Jews:

These Jews were the objects of a Russian resettlement program
whose broad features have been described by Korzen in an article published
by the Israeli Government. Korzen’s article is of some importance to the matters
treated in this chapter.

Briefly, what happened is that “hundreds of thousands” of these Jews were
dispersed throughout the Soviet Union in an evacuation program which commenced
in June 1940. At first, many were sent to labor camps but, after September
1941, a serious effort was made “to convert the refugees into Soviet
citizens and prevent their leaving the Soviet Union.” The dispersion was as far
as Central Asia and even to the Far East. Details are difficult to develop and
Korzen pleads for more interest in research into the matter. Many became Soviet
citizens, some trekked back to Poland after the war and, in may cases,
proceeded on to Israel (Korzen remarks that the Jews who remained in Poland
as leaders of the new Communist regime were put under pressure “to change
their names to purely Polish-sounding ones, as well as to keep their Jewish
origin secret”).
Some eventually arrived at places such as Persia and India via
Shanghai. The Joint Distribution Committee of New York maintained contact
with the refugees in the Soviet Union during the war, and assisted their movements
after the war.

Here's the reference to Korzen's article: Yad Vashem Studies, vol. 3, 119-140, Meir Korzen, “Problems Arising out of Research into the History of the Jewish Refugees in the U.S.S.R. during the Second World War” Couldn't find it online.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Dutch beginner » 3 years 8 months ago (Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:34 am)

Hi,
In the Dutch book: Holocaust herzien (Holocaust revised) which is quoted here many times, is written by a writer who uses a pseudonium (because doubting the holocaust in the Netherlands is forbidden) .
The writer also explains where the Polish jews moved between 1933 and 1945.
I translate this text into English, I think you will find this very interesting, it starts in my version with page 734. Below the posting I mentioned also all sources used by the writer


734
The actual number of Jews under German rule in Poland also deserves special attention. Prof Sanning shows in his indisputable submitted detailed study that in the by Germany occupied part of Poland the actual number of Jews end of 1939 was not 3.1139 million, what is mentioned by Holocaust Sources , but 2.3569 million less (!), so a number of 757,000 .1664 This number was much lower for the following reasons:

1. Within the eight years between 1931 and 1939,the number of Jews reduced throughout Poland with 480 900 (15.4%) to 2.633 million, among other things, by emigration and the high Jewish death rate.1665
2. Of these, there are 1.026 million in the sovjets occupied part of Polands, so that only 1.607 million Polish Jews theoretically in 1939 came under German administration.
3. Of these hundreds of thousands fled directly to all Soviet area (among them the late Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin), while also the Germans expelled a group of jews across the border.

West German, Zionist, American and Polish sources leave no doubt that after the German occupation of 1939 not more than 757,000 Polish Jews where under German controll.1666


(…)

In the earlier Soviet occupied Eastern Poland (incl. Polish Belarus and Ukraine) were after the German invasion of 1941 in reality no more than 1 million Jews .1668

Large numbers (Sanning: 1,550,000) were previously moved eastwards by the Soviets (voluntarily or not) and transferred to the Gulags.1669 All this brought provisionally the number of Jews under German regime to nearly 3 million.

During and after the invasion of the sovjet union (“Barbarossa”) nearly half of the present Jews in that area where evacuated by the Soviets 736

In December 1942 Soviet Communist David Bergelson (Zionist propagandist and secretary of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Com mitées in Moscow) wrote, this in Moscow :
"The evacuation saved the vast majority of Jews in the Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania and Latvia. According to information from Vitebsk, Riga and other major cities occupied by the fascists, were there only few Jews when the Germans arrived. Thus, a Much of the Polish and Baltic Jews were absorbed by the USSR. ".1670
By moving the front deeper into Russia, more areas where originally many Jews lived came under German rule, but it was under Stalin's policy of "scorched earth" that no large groups of Jews were present. Most were already fled eastward, deported by the Soviets and / or forced included in the partisan army lead by Moscow.1671


(...)

The Korherr Report 1675 of the Nazi demographer with that name made in the beginning of 1943, describes how the European Jewish population between 1933-43 had already been reduced by approximately 4.5 million. He mentioned as causes of: Jewish emigration, extremely high mortality, suicides, low Jewish birth rate, duplication countings, refugees, unknown Jews killed in the war with the Soviet Union and Jews who were deported from western Russia to Asian Russia.

(…)

Also the Korherr Report signaled that at the end of 1942, so at the beginning of the supposed massacre, less than 3 million Jews were under German controll. If they exceed 1 million (optional) counts remaining Jews in occupied Russia, a total of about 4 million.

(…)

Conclusion: There were –at most – never more then 4-4,5 miljoen jews under geman control.

1664 Sanning, W.N. The Dissolution of the Eastern European Jewry. 1983. Blz. 44.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Pa ... 4/rb15.htm Ook: Rudolf, Dr. G. Holocaust Victims: A Statistical Analysis. W. Benz and W. N. Sanning – A Comparison. Gepubliceerd in: Dissecting the Holocaust, The Growing Critique of ‘Truth’ and ‘Holocaust’; Holocaust Handbook Blz. 181. Series, Theses & Dissertations Press, PO Box 257768, Chicago, IL 60625, USA. ISBN 0-9679856-2-5. Downloads van deze en andere revisionistische werken op http://vho.org/download
1665 Sanning, W.N., blz. 32.
1666 Sanning, W.N., blz. 39 e.v.
1667 Dit, hoewel er aanleiding is te veronderstellen dat bij de komst van de Duitsers nog maar
relatief weinig joden in Letland en Litouwen waren. 1214

1668 Sanning, W.N. The Dissolution of the Eastern European Jewry. 1983. Blz. 103.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Pa ... 4/rb15.htm
1669 Sanning, W.N. The Dissolution of the Eastern European Jewry. 1983. Blz. 32.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Pa ... 4/rb15.htm
1670 Sanning, W.N. The Dissolution of the Eastern European Jewry. 1983. Blz. 114.
1671 Hoffmann, J. Stalin’s Vernichtungskrieg 1941-1945. Planung, Ausführung und Dokumentation.
6e druk juli 2000, 400 blz. F.A. Herbig Verlagsbuchhandlung GmbH, München.
ISBN 3-7766-2079-X.
1672 Engelse vertaling: Wannsee Protocol, 20 januari 1942; The Avalon Project.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/wannsee.asp
1673 Zie ook Hoofdstuk 5. e. De ‘Wannsee Conferentie’ als valse getuige voor de JHV.
1674 Korherr-rapport. http://vho.org/VffG/2005/1/Nordling71f.html
1675 http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rherr.html

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Spect3r » 3 years 8 months ago (Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:48 am)

This is massive!
If we add to these 2.6 millions the thousands that migrated to both South and North America it will end up being that we can account for almost all of the 3 million of Polish Jews.
I just love the smell of Zyklon B in the morning, afternoon, late afternoon, evening and night, for it means that I’m nicely deloused 8)

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Hannover » 3 years 8 months ago (Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:46 pm)

Spect3r wrote:This is massive!
If we add to these 2.6 millions the thousands that migrated to both South and North America it will end up being that we can account for almost all of the 3 million of Polish Jews.

Add it to this:

'WJC's Stephen Wise said 1,250,000 - 1,500,000 Polish Jews homeless in Europe, outside of Poland, & alive after WWII'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191

and:
'1,900,000 Jews Evacuated by the Soviets' said Jew W. Zander
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8374

and much more on evacuations of Jews at:
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... 3cb5a90bdc

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Dutch beginner » 3 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:37 pm)

The unknown writer of Holocaust herzien (Holocaust revised) also present some evidence that the polish population, meaning the number of people who survived the second world war, was clearly manipulated, there were no 6 million polish people (including jews) less after the war.

Page 761:
An interesting table about Polish population numbers was presented in Poland: It's People, It's Society, Culture It's Clifford Barnett.1752 That table 1753, claimed that the pre-war Polish population (1931) to a figure of 29.892 million and the post-war figure (1946) to 23.625 million. A difference of about 6 million (21%). That seems to be the proof of "six million Poles less, of which" half Jews " but ... the opposite is the case.

(see table in the book: Holocaust herzien)

The table shows an almost complete recovery of the population in ten years until 1955 (except 2 million). an increase of 3.011 million over 5 years between 1950 and 1955! Is that because the births were much higher that days then the deaths? No. The increase can also not be due to Poland returned Germans, Ukrainians or Litouers, because after the war hundreds of thousands of them were killed in Poland and expelled. Moreover, Poland is now one of the most ethnically homogeneous states. Was excessive rise caused by the SU returned Jews? or other causes (too low given up numbers of Jews after the war)?
The "loss" since 1931 (!) From 6.27 million Poles apparent restored in 10 post-war years to 63% is demographically impossible, especially mortality in Poland in the postwar years exceeded the birth rate far.
(…)
Leading Poland leaders paid attention recently on these remarkable population statistics with six million (supposedly by the Nazis) murdered Poland people between 1939 and 1945.1754 Among others, the former Polish head of state Jaruzelski said in an interview for the Russian Izvestia he did not understand how could explode Polish population figures between 1946 and 1970, then stagnate and and remain stable 1755 after the year 1990.
(..)
Jaruzelski said:
"Until now, I do not understand how my country counted after the war, 24 million Poles in 1970, this number was rised with as many as 14 million. And also suddenly ended the population explosion to rock stable at around current 38 million, some 14 million more, which has since remained unchanged. Apparently there was after the war, a strong aphrodisiac that led to the birth of X million new Poland, although there are still millions died and the shops sold only vinegar. "

In other words, Jaruzelski, the former Polish prime minister,does not believe the low number of Poland just after the war and shows no signs of missing 6 million Poles, including 3 million Polish Jews!

1752 Barnett, et al., Clifford. Poland: It’s People, It’s Society, It’s Culture. 1958. 472 blz., 30
tabellen. HRAF Press, New Haven, CT.
1753 Idem; blz. 413.
1754 http://polskaweb.eu/polens-mysterioese- ... 11118.html
1755 Interview Jaruzelski in Izwestia, oktober 2009. http://polskaweb.eu/polens-mysterioese- ... 11118.html

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby hermod » 3 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:47 am)

Dutch beginner wrote:The unknown writer of Holocaust herzien (Holocaust revised) also present some evidence that the polish population, meaning the number of people who survived the second world war, was clearly manipulated, there were no 6 million polish people (including jews) less after the war.



"Polish Population Losses during World War Two" By Dr. Otward Müller (http://vho.org/tr/2003/2/Mueller151-156.html) is also a must-read on that topic.

The following claims are continually put forth by Polish personalities: "Six million Poles lost their lives during the Second World War, a fifth of the entire population"; or "Three million Christian Poles [...] were victims of the Nazi terror." This article shows that statements of this sort are not compatible with the easily accessible population statistics of the pre- and post-war Poles. The conclusion is therefore that these loss figures are extremely exaggerated.

[...]

Polish claims that "Six million Poles [...] a fifth of the entire population" were killed during the Second World War or became "victims of Nazi terror," have never been supported by facts by the Polish government. The same is true for the claim that "3 million Christian Poles" died.

The comparison between the pre- and post-war population statistics performed in this study shows that, on the contrary, the losses of the ethnic Christian Poles are relatively small. The 6- or 3-million-figures are exaggerations of propaganda which have spread worldwide, in order to 'justify' Poland's post-war policy of genocide of the German people, i.e., of the expulsion of the Eastern Germans with wholesale mass murder and the annexation of East Germany.

The actual losses are probably in the order of one tenth of the figures claimed.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:24 pm)

Any comparison of the pre-war and post-war populations of Poland claiming to tell anything about Polish losses is nonsense because they are not comparing like with like. Even leaving the Jews out of the calculation pre-war Poland was a multi-ethnic state with substantial populations of Germans, Ukrainians and Byelorussians. Post war Poland had lost the territories occupied by Ukrainians and Byelorussians, expelled most of the Germans and and still had enough Poles left over to occupy the territories seized from Germany. It is today one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries in the world.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Lohengrin » 3 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:59 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:
Any comparison of the pre-war and post-war populations of Poland claiming to tell anything about Polish losses is nonsense because they are not comparing like with like. Even leaving the Jews out of the calculation pre-war Poland was a multi-ethnic state with substantial populations of Germans, Ukrainians and Byelorussians. Post war Poland had lost the territories occupied by Ukrainians and Byelorussians, expelled most of the Germans and and still had enough Poles left over to occupy the territories seized from Germany. It is today one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries in the world.

I think Kingfisher didn't read properly hermod's link in his last posting: http://vho.org/tr/2003/2/Mueller151-156.html#ftnref12

There's all Kingfisher needs about differences between pre- and post-War polish borders, populations and ethnic groups. No problems about this aspects, I think.

[I'm still working on my conclusions about the subject of this thread "2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After world War II" This needs a few weeks more].

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Dresden » 3 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:06 pm)

Lohengrin said:

"[I'm still working on my conclusions about the subject of this thread "2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After world War II" This needs a few weeks more]"

Thank you, Lohengrin!
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:08 pm)

Lohengrin wrote:Kingfisher wrote:
Any comparison of the pre-war and post-war populations of Poland claiming to tell anything about Polish losses is nonsense because they are not comparing like with like. Even leaving the Jews out of the calculation pre-war Poland was a multi-ethnic state with substantial populations of Germans, Ukrainians and Byelorussians. Post war Poland had lost the territories occupied by Ukrainians and Byelorussians, expelled most of the Germans and and still had enough Poles left over to occupy the territories seized from Germany. It is today one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries in the world.

I think Kingfisher didn't read properly hermod's link in his last posting: http://vho.org/tr/2003/2/Mueller151-156.html#ftnref12

There's all Kingfisher needs about differences between pre- and post-War polish borders, populations and ethnic groups. No problems about this aspects, I think.

[I'm still working on my conclusions about the subject of this thread "2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After world War II" This needs a few weeks more].

In other words the article (which I hadn't read) makes the same points as I did and followed them through with some very detailed demographic data. My comments were aimed at comparisons which drew conclusions from subtracting the post-war population from the pre-war one.


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