the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Nessie.. » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:28 am)

Atigun wrote:
Nessie.. wrote:I have not come here to debate whether or not there is evidence to prove mass graves at the various AR camps. I just came here to show you some of my evidence to prove I am not bluffing and can evidence my claims.


IOW, Nessie, you came to CODOH to show us some holes in the ground.


I have shown you what is there now, which is not the original mass graves with whole bodies in them.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Hannover » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:57 am)

Nessie.. wrote:I have shown you what is there now, which is not the original mass graves with whole bodies in them.

Say what?
Not the original mass graves? Then where did the claimed remains of over a million Jews go? That's 900,000 claimed at Treblinka, 250,000 claimed at Sobibor. Did they just vanish into thin air?

Nessie, you are contradicting the very story that you supposedly are trying to defend.

Jews claim that alleged enormous mass graves filled with over a million Jew corpses are still there. They do not claim that over a million Jew corpses WERE there.

We are seeing a situation, Nessie, where you have painted yourself into a corner with no way out, other than being rational and scientific about the non-existent, never existed 'enormous mass graves filled with Jews'.

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- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby borjastick » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:12 am)

The objects and finds of bones, bits of bone and ash at Sobibor corroborate the witnesses who say the site was used to kill most of those transported there. The bodies were buried, then exhumed, cremated and reburied mixed in with the earth. Further evidence of Sobibor as a death camp comes from the mass transports that arrived there and no evidence for mass transports back out again. So the claim of have have zip is also wrong.
- Nessie

In this one statement we see the encapsulation of the holocaust believers' claims. They are prepared to spin, manipulate and lie to brainwash the gullible. Truth means little to them except that their truth bears no resemblance to that which most others abide by. The leap he makes that a few bones and cremains prove the claims that all jews sent to Sobibor were murdered is staggering and so elitist and arrogant.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Hektor » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:12 am)

Nessie.. wrote:
Atigun wrote:
Nessie.. wrote:I have not come here to debate whether or not there is evidence to prove mass graves at the various AR camps. I just came here to show you some of my evidence to prove I am not bluffing and can evidence my claims.


IOW, Nessie, you came to CODOH to show us some holes in the ground.


I have shown you what is there now, which is not the original mass graves with whole bodies in them.

With other words, you don't have evidence that proves the case. Just some pieces to build an innuendo persuasive enough to the credible, just like cat paws and candle wax was at a witchcraft trial.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Nessie.. » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:52 am)

Hannover wrote:
Nessie.. wrote:I have shown you what is there now, which is not the original mass graves with whole bodies in them.

Say what?
Not the original mass graves? Then where did the claimed remains of over a million Jews go? That's 900,000 claimed at Treblinka, 250,000 claimed at Sobibor. Did they just vanish into thin air?

Nessie, you are contradicting the very story that you supposedly are trying to defend.

Jews claim that alleged enormous mass graves filled with over a million Jew corpses are still there. They do not claim that over a million Jew corpses WERE there.

We are seeing a situation, Nessie, where you have painted yourself into a corner with no way out, other than being rational and scientific about the non-existent, never existed 'enormous mass graves filled with Jews'.

Image

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.


The corpses were exhumed, cremated and the cremains, ash and other remains mixed back into the earth. I know that because archaeologists keep finding more and more of those remains at the various camps as they do studies, such as Haimi at Sobibor, Kola at Belzec and Staffs Unit at TII.

So they did not vanish into thin air. There is no contradiction in my story. The narrative is backed by science.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Nessie.. » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:59 am)

borjastick wrote:
The objects and finds of bones, bits of bone and ash at Sobibor corroborate the witnesses who say the site was used to kill most of those transported there. The bodies were buried, then exhumed, cremated and reburied mixed in with the earth. Further evidence of Sobibor as a death camp comes from the mass transports that arrived there and no evidence for mass transports back out again. So the claim of have have zip is also wrong.
- Nessie

In this one statement we see the encapsulation of the holocaust believers' claims. They are prepared to spin, manipulate and lie to brainwash the gullible. Truth means little to them except that their truth bears no resemblance to that which most others abide by. The leap he makes that a few bones and cremains prove the claims that all jews sent to Sobibor were murdered is staggering and so elitist and arrogant.


It is not a leap. It is corroborated by witnesses and supporting evidence regarding transports. Archaeology, witnesses and documents match. I have large areas of cremains, ash etc identified at Sobibor, Belzec and TII found precisely where witnesses said they would be, as shown in previous posts.

There is nothing staggering, elitist or arrogant about that.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Nessie.. » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:07 pm)

Hektor wrote:
Nessie.. wrote:
Atigun wrote:
IOW, Nessie, you came to CODOH to show us some holes in the ground.


I have shown you what is there now, which is not the original mass graves with whole bodies in them.

With other words, you don't have evidence that proves the case. Just some pieces to build an innuendo persuasive enough to the credible, just like cat paws and candle wax was at a witchcraft trial.


IOW. "With other words". Whenever I read that I know changing what I have said and giving it a new interpretation is the tactic being used. That is called the strawman fallacy. I have way more than "innuendo". I have witnesses, admissions, archaeology and supporting evidence.

This thread was a claim I am bluffing and have no evidence. It has had to change tack because I have shown i am not bluffing and I do have evidence. The new tack is to claim I do not have enough evidence.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Hannover » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:03 pm)

Nessie.. wrote:The corpses were exhumed, cremated and the cremains, ash and other remains mixed back into the earth. I know that because archaeologists keep finding more and more of those remains at the various camps as they do studies, such as Haimi at Sobibor, Kola at Belzec and Staffs Unit at TII.

So they did not vanish into thin air. There is no contradiction in my story. The narrative is backed by science.


So where are these remains of over a million Jews supposedly "mixed back into the earth"? That absurd claim is just laughably bizarre.
Show this forum those remains, you cannot. You keep dodging the same requests, over & over again, please stop.

Your empty claims about the debunked "Haimi at Sobibor, Kola at Belzec and Staffs Unit at TII" are complete nonsense as shown in this thread, those overwhelming, specific points you dodged yet again.

Anyone can search this thread and this forum for Haimi, Kola, Staff Unit.

And as usual Nessie dodges:
For example:
Nessie, I note that you avoided this thread:
''Sobibor as Disneyland' / another cry for help'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10291

Which demolishes your bogus 'excavation' at Sobibor, the fraudulent Yoram Haimi, etc.

Also see & respond to:
'"Gas chamber" discovered at Sobibor'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8887

- Hannover

and then we see shyster Kola trashed:
Kola Report about Belzec
Belzec: a fraudulent excavation
Belzec/Kola - Going to extremes to sell the lie
at:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3192
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=368

And your "Staffs Unit at TII" is pure invention.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Hektor » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:07 pm)

Nessie.. wrote:....
IOW. "With other words". Whenever I read that I know changing what I have said and giving it a new interpretation is the tactic being used. That is called the strawman fallacy. I have way more than "innuendo". I have witnesses, admissions, archaeology and supporting evidence.

This thread was a claim I am bluffing and have no evidence. It has had to change tack because I have shown i am not bluffing and I do have evidence. The new tack is to claim I do not have enough evidence.

Your first paragraph doesn't make sense whatsoever. Did you try to make a logical point here? Your "evidence" doesn't discriminate, hence your thesis is not confirmed. So as for your thesis you do not have any evidence in support for the positive claim. I'm very sorry, but this is how real science works.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Atigun » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:41 pm)

Nessie.. wrote:
Atigun wrote:The reason Nessie isn't going to respond to any questions on CODOH is because he hasn't any answers. For example, he shows a photo of a few objects held in someone's hand and says, "See, those are bones and they prove that 250,000 Jews were killed at Sobibor." Really? Where is the chain of evidence? Where is the laboratory analysis proving them human bones? Why does so few objects "prove" that 250,000 people were killed at Sobibor? You're empty, Nessie. You've got zip, zero, nada.


I do have the answers, which I post on another forum.

You have misrepresented and made up a quote about my argument regarding the evidence found at Sobibor.

The objects and finds of bones, bits of bone and ash at Sobibor corroborate the witnesses who say the site was used to kill most of those transported there. The bodies were buried, then exhumed, cremated and reburied mixed in with the earth. Further evidence of Sobibor as a death camp comes from the mass transports that arrived there and no evidence for mass transports back out again. So the claim of have have zip is also wrong.


If you have posted your answers on a different forum, then post them here. I have misrepresented nothing. I've asked you some very straight forward questions which you refuse to answer. Where IS your chain of evidence? You seem to expect us to accept the word of people wholly committed to the holyhoax. Where IS the laboratory analysis proving not only that they are human bones but the bones of Jews? How does such a small, dubious sample corroborate the tales of known liars? Your admission that the stories of Hannover's list of fanciful tales are lies but THESE tales can be accepted at face value with NO testing whatsoever is ridiculous. Again, I ask the questions previously cited.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Nessie.. » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:59 am)

Atigun wrote:
Nessie.. wrote:
Atigun wrote:The reason Nessie isn't going to respond to any questions on CODOH is because he hasn't any answers. For example, he shows a photo of a few objects held in someone's hand and says, "See, those are bones and they prove that 250,000 Jews were killed at Sobibor." Really? Where is the chain of evidence? Where is the laboratory analysis proving them human bones? Why does so few objects "prove" that 250,000 people were killed at Sobibor? You're empty, Nessie. You've got zip, zero, nada.


I do have the answers, which I post on another forum.

You have misrepresented and made up a quote about my argument regarding the evidence found at Sobibor.

The objects and finds of bones, bits of bone and ash at Sobibor corroborate the witnesses who say the site was used to kill most of those transported there. The bodies were buried, then exhumed, cremated and reburied mixed in with the earth. Further evidence of Sobibor as a death camp comes from the mass transports that arrived there and no evidence for mass transports back out again. So the claim of have have zip is also wrong.


If you have posted your answers on a different forum, then post them here.


I do and they go for moderation and then never appear.

Atigun wrote: I have misrepresented nothing.


You made up a quote which claims I have said a few bones proves 250,000 were killed at Sobibor. That is not true and it is a misrepresentation of my actual argument.

Atigun wrote: I've asked you some very straight forward questions which you refuse to answer. Where IS your chain of evidence? You seem to expect us to accept the word of people wholly committed to the holyhoax. Where IS the laboratory analysis proving not only that they are human bones but the bones of Jews? How does such a small, dubious sample corroborate the tales of known liars? Your admission that the stories of Hannover's list of fanciful tales are lies but THESE tales can be accepted at face value with NO testing whatsoever is ridiculous. Again, I ask the questions previously cited.


I have corroborative evidence for the role of Sobibor.

- The earliest evidence were those who were selected to work elsewhere or at the camp and survived. They speak to leaving the vast majority of people they arrived with at the camp and never seeing them again. Those who worked at the camp speak to the rest being lead to one part of the camp and never being seen again.

- That evidence is corroborated by a lack of any documents showing mass transports to or arrivals at other camps, so proving the alleged role of Sobibor as a transit camp.

- It is further corroborated by the non appearance of many Jews at the end of the war. Most notably only 18 Dutch Jews returned to the Netherlands.

- Then comes the evidence of those who escaped and they speak to its role as a death camp with reports of the use of gassing and the initial use of mass graves.

- Then comes the evidence of captured Nazis who admitted to the role of the camp as a death camp.

- To see if the above was true or not archaeologists have been to the camp, studied it and found what the witnesses said would there and where they said it would be. So the layout of the camp, where the building used as gas chambers and where the cremains are matches.

Your demand for lab analysis to see if the bones are from Jews is unreasonable because it cannot be done. Your doubt over the lab test that was done is just that, a doubt. When numerous archaeologists accept what they found is bone and we have no evidence to show it is anything other than human, that is good enough for any reasonable person.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:43 am)

archaeologists keep finding more and more of those remains at the various camps


Nessie,
And how much is "more and more"? A little bit in addition to thae last little bit? This is precisely the kind of vague language from you and CSC that prompted me in an earlier post to ask you for "Quantified. Hard evidence, please."

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Nessie.. » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:31 am)

Haimi Sobibor Report 2013. The summary I have quoted below shows how more of the camp has been excavated, where the excavation was and that more human remains were found.

http://sobibor.info.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Report-by-Y.Haimi-Autumn-2013.pdf

"The aim of the excavation was to reveal the perimeter of the mass graves and to better
understand the connection between the crematoria discovered in the spring of 2013
and the mass graves. The ultimate goal was to determine the location of the eastern
fence of Camp 3 and thus estimate the size of the camp.
From early on, it was clear that the paucity of artifacts in this area was due to the fact that
this was the site where the murder of the victims was carried out and the victims arrived
naked to this point after they had been stripped of their clothes and other belongings in Camp 2.
In the winter season, over 3,500 square meters were excavated, revealing remains of
the crematoria, mass graves and remains of double fence that encircled Camp 3.
Fragments of human bone and hair were uncovered in the excavation."

A summary of the Belzec studies from 1945 to 2000;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/modern/archreview.html

It shows how more of the camp was studied and more traces of human remains were found.

An interview with C S-C at the University of Birmingham;

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/accessibility/transcripts/Caroline-Sturdy-Colls-Treblinka.aspx

The Staffs Uni work at that site has shown the camp is bigger than previously thought; "Also with the topographic survey we’ve demonstrated that the camp as it’s marked currently on the ground by the modern memorial was actually much larger, that the boundaries of the camp should have been 50 metres further north and this has a knock-on effect for a number of structures within the camp itself."

So I am correct to say more and more has been found, which further weakens denier/revisionist claims that the camps had another function.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Moderator » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:22 am)

Nessie said in response to:
"If you have posted your answers on a different forum, then post them here."
I do and they go for moderation and then never appear.

You are not being truthful, Nessie. All of your posts with actual content have appeared.

See:
'new notes to Nessie'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10570
M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Nessie.. » 3 years 3 weeks ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:45 am)

Hannover wrote:
Nessie.. wrote:The corpses were exhumed, cremated and the cremains, ash and other remains mixed back into the earth. I know that because archaeologists keep finding more and more of those remains at the various camps as they do studies, such as Haimi at Sobibor, Kola at Belzec and Staffs Unit at TII.

So they did not vanish into thin air. There is no contradiction in my story. The narrative is backed by science.


So where are these remains of over a million Jews supposedly "mixed back into the earth"? That absurd claim is just laughably bizarre.
Show this forum those remains, you cannot. You keep dodging the same requests, over & over again, please stop.

.......


Regarding my claims about the remains of Jews being mixed back into the earth. That comes from reports of the mass graves being exhumed, the bodies cremated and then actually mixed back into the ground. For example Yankel Wiernik at TII

http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm

"It was our job to fill in the empty ditches with the ashes of the cremated victims, mixed with soil in order to obliterate all traces of the mass graves."

That mix has been found at Sobibor, TII and Belzec. For example, Kola at Belzec

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/modern/archreview.html

"Grave pit No. 3: Located in southern part of the camp. This was the first mass grave, the location of which was positively identified from a Luftwaffe aerial photograph taken in 1944. It appears as a T-shaped white patch and has the appearances of being the biggest grave in the camp. Dimensions of the grave were determined as 16 m x 15 m x 5 m deep. Contained a mixture of carbonised wood, fragments of burnt human bones, pieces of skulls with skin and tufts of hair still attached, lumps of greyish human fat, and fragments of unburned human bones. The bottom layer consisted of putrid, waxy human fat. Area: 960 sq m."

and you can see the mix of ash and soil here at Sobibor;

Image


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