the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

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Kingfisher
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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 6 months ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:01 pm)

Nessie.. wrote:Haimi Sobibor Report 2013. The summary I have quoted below shows how more of the camp has been excavated, where the excavation was and that more human remains were found.

http://sobibor.info.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Report-by-Y.Haimi-Autumn-2013.pdf

"The aim of the excavation was to reveal the perimeter of the mass graves and to better
understand the connection between the crematoria discovered in the spring of 2013
and the mass graves. The ultimate goal was to determine the location of the eastern
fence of Camp 3 and thus estimate the size of the camp.
From early on, it was clear that the paucity of artifacts in this area was due to the fact that
this was the site where the murder of the victims was carried out and the victims arrived
naked to this point after they had been stripped of their clothes and other belongings in Camp 2.
In the winter season, over 3,500 square meters were excavated, revealing remains of
the crematoria, mass graves and remains of double fence that encircled Camp 3.
Fragments of human bone and hair were uncovered in the excavation."

A summary of the Belzec studies from 1945 to 2000;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/modern/archreview.html

It shows how more of the camp was studied and more traces of human remains were found.

An interview with C S-C at the University of Birmingham;

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/accessibility/transcripts/Caroline-Sturdy-Colls-Treblinka.aspx

The Staffs Uni work at that site has shown the camp is bigger than previously thought; "Also with the topographic survey we’ve demonstrated that the camp as it’s marked currently on the ground by the modern memorial was actually much larger, that the boundaries of the camp should have been 50 metres further north and this has a knock-on effect for a number of structures within the camp itself."

So I am correct to say more and more has been found, which further weakens denier/revisionist claims that the camps had another function.

Nessie the items I have marked in red are the nearest you come to quantifying anything. In what way is any of that "Quantified. Hard evidence, please."

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 6 months ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:08 pm)

From early on, it was clear that the paucity of artifacts in this area was due to the fact that
this was the site where the murder of the victims was carried out and the victims arrived
naked to this point after they had been stripped of their clothes and other belongings in Camp 2.

One of the finest examples of begging the question (assuming your conclusion in the premise) I have ever come across.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Werd » 3 years 6 months ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:52 pm)

That's just what he does.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 6 months ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:31 pm)

Werd wrote:That's just what he does.

Actually It's CSC he was quoting there.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Atigun » 3 years 6 months ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:59 pm)

Nessie has absolutely no laboratory analysis to back up the claims made by his so-called researchers. We, on the other hand, are expected to take the words of people totally committed to the holyhoax at face value. Neither is a request for DNA analysis "unreasonable." Your archeologists said that the "reddish brown" earth was sent for analysis. That was three years ago. Where are the results of that analysis, Nessie?

Nessie's link to HEART shows not one photograph of core samples nor the results of their analysis. Yet we are supposed to believe that 33 mass graves were discovered. Why wasn't GPR or similar high tech geophysical gear employed? Why weren't those scans presented? On and on with Nessie claiming that the unproven claims of so-called investigators corroborate the unproven claims of so-called eyewitnesses. In the common parlance, Nessie, that's known as, "You lie and I'll swear to it."

If memory serves, the floor plan of the alleged gas chamber building at Sobibor was radically different from the described gas chamber. Why was that, Nessie? If the small, unidentified shards don't represent the 250,000 allegedly killed at Sobibor, what are they? The questions remain, why have no actual tests been performed on the "evidence" and why do your archeologists refuse to use high tech geophysical gear to direct their digs?

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Hannover » 3 years 6 months ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:33 pm)

Nessie posted:
"Grave pit No. 3: Located in southern part of the camp. This was the first mass grave, the location of which was positively identified from a Luftwaffe aerial photograph taken in 1944. It appears as a T-shaped white patch and has the appearances of being the biggest grave in the camp. Dimensions of the grave were determined as 16 m x 15 m x 5 m deep. Contained a mixture of carbonised wood, fragments of burnt human bones, pieces of skulls with skin and tufts of hair still attached, lumps of greyish human fat, and fragments of unburned human bones. The bottom layer consisted of putrid, waxy human fat. Area: 960 sq m."

and you can see the mix of ash and soil here at Sobibor;

What Luftwaffe photo? It's curiously not shown.

Where is the proof that this 'mass grave':
"Contained a mixture of carbonised wood, fragments of burnt human bones, pieces of skulls with skin and tufts of hair still attached, lumps of greyish human fat, and fragments of unburned human bones. The bottom layer consisted of putrid, waxy human fat"?

It's all bluff given by Zionist with an agenda, no proof given anywhere.

Try this is in a legit court of law: 'Trust me ladies & gentlemen of the jury, I have no proof, but I'm a Zionist.' :lol:

Image posted by Nessie alleging that it shows human ash and mass graves for an alleged 250,000 Jews at Sobibor:

click to enlarge
Image

Note that the dodgy 'mass graves' look very recent, see sharp, well defined edges.

Note that there is nothing in these 'mass graves for 250,000 Jews'.

Ash? Really?
Why are we supposed to believe the dark spots are ash?

If ash, then where is the proof that it's human ash?

Where is the proof that it's not merely trash burning ash that would obviously occur at a large transit site like Sobibor?

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
Last edited by Hannover on Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Atigun » 3 years 6 months ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:40 pm)

Then we have Nessie's link to the CS-C interview with the University of Birmingham. Here's a quote from that interview.

"We’ve also identified a number of pits at the site. Again, all these pits have been mapped and corroborated with witness plans and this is indicative of a number of probable graves at the site."

Really, Caroline? Do tell us how your irregularly shaped holes, only one of which was measured at 17X26 meters and no depth, corroborates the well defined 10X25X50 meter graves of Wiernik or the even larger graves of Rajchman? How are they "...indicative of a number of probable graves at the site?" Why are the graves of the two eyewitnesses only "probable?"

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Hannover » 3 years 6 months ago (Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:48 pm)

Take down of Sturdy-Colls at Birmingham that 'holocau$t' Industry spokesman Nessie cites.

'Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8259

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Nessie.. » 3 years 5 months ago (Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:39 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:
Nessie wrote:.......

So I am correct to say more and more has been found, which further weakens denier/revisionist claims that the camps had another function.

Nessie the items I have marked in red are the nearest you come to quantifying anything. In what way is any of that "Quantified. Hard evidence, please."


It is from academic, authoritative sources and shows the additional work done at the various camps since WWII.

What standard of evidence are you looking for?

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Hannover » 3 years 5 months ago (Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:48 pm)

Nessie.. wrote:It is from academic, authoritative sources and shows the additional work done at the various camps since WWII.

What standard of evidence are you looking for?

Hilarious, Nessie. We have utterly gutted your appeal to some vague authority and you keep repeating the same nonsense. All the while you dodge all the challenges put to you.

We're looking for evidence that answers the challenges we have made to your repeated nonsensical claims.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Atigun » 3 years 5 months ago (Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:38 pm)

Nessie, you are mistaking collusion for corroboration. Neither is anything "wrong" with core sampling. The question was, why didn't Kola use the more up to date geophysical gear that was so readily available to him? As far as the findings of Kola, see here. viewtopic.php?t=368 TMoran takes the Kola study apart much better than I can so why should I try to duplicate his efforts?

You quoted me a test on the remains? Where? I must have missed that. Again, why should we accept the unproven word of people committed totally to the holyhoax? The GPR scans by CS-C at Treblinka have not, to my knowledge, been made public. Neither did they find any of the mass graves as described by both Wiernik and Rajchman.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Atigun » 3 years 5 months ago (Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:09 pm)

Nessie.. wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:
Nessie wrote:.......

So I am correct to say more and more has been found, which further weakens denier/revisionist claims that the camps had another function.

Nessie the items I have marked in red are the nearest you come to quantifying anything. In what way is any of that "Quantified. Hard evidence, please."


It is from academic, authoritative sources and shows the additional work done at the various camps since WWII.

What standard of evidence are you looking for?


We are looking for laboratory and other tested forensic evidence, Nessie. I don't care how "academic" or "authoritative" your source is in claiming that they found bone shards or "reddish earth" over in the south forty or wherever. There should be photos taken in situ, a chain of evidence established and third party blind tests done on the sample. The fact is, your "academic, authoritative sources" are committed holyhoaxers and no, their word is NOT an acceptable alternative to rigorous scientific method. Neither is that too much to ask for. You need only to read of the discovery of the first Clovis point in New Mexico to establish that.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Nessie.. » 3 years 5 months ago (Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:43 am)

Atigun wrote:Nessie, you are mistaking collusion for corroboration. Neither is anything "wrong" with core sampling. The question was, why didn't Kola use the more up to date geophysical gear that was so readily available to him? As far as the findings of Kola, see here. viewtopic.php?t=368 TMoran takes the Kola study apart much better than I can so why should I try to duplicate his efforts?

You quoted me a test on the remains? Where? I must have missed that. Again, why should we accept the unproven word of people committed totally to the holyhoax? The GPR scans by CS-C at Treblinka have not, to my knowledge, been made public. Neither did they find any of the mass graves as described by both Wiernik and Rajchman.


I cannot provide you links to the level of detail you want. I do not know why Kola preferred core samples to GPR.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 5 months ago (Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:11 am)

Nessie.. wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:
Nessie wrote:.......

So I am correct to say more and more has been found, which further weakens denier/revisionist claims that the camps had another function.

Nessie the items I have marked in red are the nearest you come to quantifying anything. In what way is any of that "Quantified. Hard evidence, please."


It is from academic, authoritative sources and shows the additional work done at the various camps since WWII.

What standard of evidence are you looking for?


You appear to be having difficulty with the concepts of "quantified" and "hard evidence". I would like to see figures relating to the quantities of human remains found and to how, if at all, it is possible to extrapolate from these the approximate total quantities on the site. I would also like to see any evidence that any of the building remains found were ever part of any gas chamber.

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Re: the usual big bluff / True Believer 'Nessie' pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka

Postby Hannover » 3 years 5 months ago (Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:31 am)

Nessie.. wrote:I do not know why Kola preferred core samples to GPR.

What core samples? Kola's alleged core samples have never been photographed, photos shown. He's hiding something.
Simple as that.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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