I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

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I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

Postby [email protected] » 3 years 2 months ago (Sun May 15, 2016 4:09 pm)

Hi there, this is my first post here :mrgreen:

Well, first of all excuse me for any error in my writing, as I'm not an English native speaker, but the point to start the topic was (as the title says), that I¡m kind of overwhelmed because of the information available against the official version of the holocaust and the proofs that would support it. Thereby I would ask for some "enlightment" regarding this topic. This is what I consider are the main proofs against or supporting the official Shoah version:

Proofs supporting it:

  • The nazi ideology was a darwinistic ideology distinguishing between the arian race and the Untermenschen/Übermenschen. We also have foregoings of murdering their own people (Aktion T4 and euthanasia program) and different kind of agressive propagana and teaching to their population to erradicate those persons out of the Volksgemeinschaft.
  • If we already know that there was a war between the sionist jewish and the nazis, and they can act as an infiltrated enemy within the population, it has a lot of sense to prosecute them. Even more, if the war was an anihilation war, it has no sense to let them be alive, as they may reorganize or conspire against them.
  • There are thousands of testimonies of witnessess and involved people describing the murdering operations.
  • There are thousands of documents toowritten by the germans, describing the number of victims and the murdering process (although with tons of euphemisms). As I do speak german too, I can read them without needing a translation and I do consider them a strong evidence.
  • If there is a criminal plan going on, it has a lot of sense to cover it up as much as possible. Therefore it is normal that some evidence have been not yet found, that there are a lot of paradoxes or difficult to prove actions.

Proofs against it:

  • Germany suffered a severe scarcity of workers as she sended every capable men to the front. Thereby, it wouldn't have much sense to kill those who could have been working for them.
  • It was and it's not clear what should be consider as a jew, so depending on what one consider (rassenjude, mischlingen I and II and glaubenjude), one may obtain differents numbers.
  • From my point of view, it has absolutely no sense to create a jewish state while on the other hand one is trying to kill them and abusing them, as they will take their revenge as soon as they became powerful enough.
  • Most of the evidence of the gas chambers and so on where presented by the soviet russians, worldknown for their honestity and transparency.
  • There are a lot of evidences that contradict other ones, with witnessess saying A and other saying B. Also it is predictable in some cases some lack of honestity from their side, as they are victims, and the victims always want justice or retribution with some interests.
  • There is an economical and political explotiation of the holocoust, which doesn't happen with any other genocide of the mankind history.
  • The truth and the sciencie fears no investigation or revision, and in this case, it is strictly controlled or forbidden to go deeper and review the facts of the official version.
  • Normally it is ignored the cause of death by tifus or the indirect cause caused by the bombing of the allies of the german logistic system, which leaves the camps without supplies.
  • We have previous cases of lies and rumours without any evidence or fake proofs (like the human soap, skin lamps, shrunken heads, the Ana Frank diary and so on).

This is what I do actually believe it happened:

- There is no secret that since the begining the nazis where enemies of the jews, although I would specify two particular cases; those powerful jews associated with the high finance, banks and so on, and those orthodox believers, leaving the rest to a second place. Once they reached the power, and with their alternative economic system and politics to recover their souvereignity, they started a hidden war with the sionism (one just need to research a bit about the boicot made by the jews to germany as soon as Hitler reached the power, while the german boicot arrived a week later. Also I¨ve found curious, that although Hitler had the majority of the parliament on his side, there were no law or legal action against the jews after a week of his Ermächtigungsgesetz).

- Since then, 1933, the nazis tried to expell all the jews out of their controlled territories and public system before the WWII started, also in cooperation with sionism organization to organice a fast and controlled migration outside Europe or the Reich.

- Then the war begins in 1939 and the plans to expell the jews begin to be more difficult to realize, as the destination countries may not cooperate with germany. So they decide in 1940 the Madagascar plan to create a jewish state far from Europe and also with less risk of any jewish territorial or political expansion outside the island.

- At some point, with the british control of the seas, with the peace offers declined or ignored, and with all the jews of the world united together to crush Germany, the germans decide to forget about the Madagascar plan and adopt more drastic resolutions. This will be the turning point and the start the mass killings (the so called Aktion Reinhardt). Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinca and Belzek would be the extermination camps (I don't consider Auschwitz as one of them), in combination with massive shootings of the Einsatzgruppen and maybe also through the famous gas vans.

- Once the east front was collapsing, they decided to stop the mass killings and destroy the traces of the assessinations, hiding the evidences, demolishing the complexes and so on. Also because of the necesities and demands of the war, any people capable of working, no matter if they were jews or not, would be forced to work.

- As soon as Germany is defeated, it is blamed of almost everything that one could imagine exaggerating the crimes she commited and inflating the magnitude of their actions so like the number of victims, as like always, the vanquisher is the one who writes the historz. From my point of view, I will judge fair a total amount of jewish victims around 2-3 million, and those claimed 6 millions are only because of cabalistic reasons.


And lastly, this would be my questions to you:


- Which number of jewish victims do you consider realistic? (combining deaths in the ghettos, KZ, shootings, and so on).

- What could cause the turning point in their politics to first start cooperating with sionist organizations, and then prosecuting all and making some deals with the Mufti of Jerusalem? Any hidden agreement that was not accomplished by one side?

- What is, in your opinion, the secuence of what happened?

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Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

Postby hermod » 3 years 2 months ago (Sun May 15, 2016 7:08 pm)

Welcome on codoh, [email protected]

You're supposed to deal with a single topic in each thread, not a hundred!!
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

Postby Dresden » 3 years 2 months ago (Sun May 15, 2016 7:59 pm)

Hello, [email protected]!

There are a couple of things missing in your "Proofs against it" which are conspicuous by their absence:

1. No autopsied corpses were found to have died from poison gas.

2. No mass graves containing hundreds of thousands of bodies or cremains.

Although you did mention:

"The truth and the sciencie fears no investigation or revision, and in this case, it is strictly controlled or forbidden to go deeper and review the facts of the official version"

That is putting it mildly, to say the least.

It is not only forbidden to "review the facts of the official version".....it is strictly against the law to even express doubt about ANY aspect of the Hoax, on pain of imprisonment.

Jewish Professor, Roger Dommergue Polacco de Menasce in a letter to Steven Spielberg, said:

"These laws are, accordingly, the absolute proof of the fake before we study its arithmetical and technical ineptitude"

To most rational people, whose brains haven't been completely destroyed by a lifetime of brainwashing by Television, Hollywood movies, "documentaries", newspapers, magazines, teachers and school textbooks, the laws against questioning the 'holocaust' is "absolute proof" that it is a Hoax!
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

Postby [email protected] » 3 years 2 months ago (Sun May 15, 2016 8:43 pm)

Welcome on codoh, [email protected]

You're supposed to deal with a single topic in each thread, not a hundred!!


Well, although I do agree and admit that my post it's a bit too long, I think that it is more or less saying one topic; the conclusions I came through an A/B comparison, and the questions regarding this (more or less).

And thank you for the welcome!

...There are a couple of things missing in your "Proofs against it" which are conspicuous by their absence:


Point 1 it's clearly very suspicious, but the point 2 (by doing some big act of good faith) may be explained -or not- by the intention of the germans to hide the bodies and evidences of their crimes. With some imagination it is possible to find hundreds of hipothesis and theories to explain this anomaly, like buring the bodies or ashes in hidden places never found yet.

That is putting it mildly, to say the least.


I do agree, but I wanted to be a bit polite :?

In any case, no matter what, the thing is that I have such huge confusion in my head filled with so contradictory information that I would need some hints and clues to solve the puzzle, if anybody has one to give.

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Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

Postby Moderator » 3 years 2 months ago (Sun May 15, 2016 9:33 pm)

[email protected]:
We appreciate your courtesy.

Here are our guidelines:
Holocaust Revisionism Forum guidelines / rules
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=358

Without them the various threads can be cluttered and difficult to follow.
Since you have so many questions I suggest that you start threads for the individual topics, much better that way.
Thanks & welcome.
M1

BTW, the narrative says that they know where the human remains are, but as Steve F. said:
No mass graves containing hundreds of thousands of bodies or cremains.
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

Postby Hektor » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 12:59 am)

Welcome [email protected] You heard about the guidelines, but sometimes it's also good to have a synoptic.

[email protected] wrote:....
Proofs supporting it:

  • The nazi ideology was a darwinistic ideology distinguishing between the arian race and the Untermenschen/Übermenschen. We also have foregoings of murdering their own people (Aktion T4 and euthanasia program) and different kind of agressive propagana and teaching to their population to erradicate those persons out of the Volksgemeinschaft.
That's quite an "American" portrayal of it. But also an enormous misrepresentation:
* National Socialism was not Darwinistic - Naturalistic,but not Darwinistic.
* Please show us in the party program (or other official documents) where it says Untermenschen/Uebermenschen
* While one can certainly argue against it on ethical grounds, euthanasia isn't murder,
* On what grounds do claim there was "aggressive propaganda" for it? There were some medical doctors, jurists, scientists arguing for this. But that's hardly "aggressive propaganda". Have a closer look at the Hitler decree relating to it and also consider the fact that it was withdrawn.

But even if we take your assertions on face value, your arguing is just muddying the waters and no proof.

[email protected] wrote:
  • If we already know that there was a war between the sionist jewish and the nazis, and they can act as an infiltrated enemy within the population, it has a lot of sense to prosecute them. Even more, if the war was an anihilation war, it has no sense to let them be alive, as they may reorganize or conspire against them.

  • Well, the NS-government spent tremendous resources to make sure Jews would stay alive. That's a fact. The Holocaustians had to turn health-enhancing hygiene facilities like showers, delousing chambers, Zyklon B and crematoria into killing facilities in order to distract from that fact.

    [email protected] wrote:
  • There are thousands of testimonies of witnessess and involved people describing the murdering operations.
  • Really? Did you ever have a look at it? It's an impression created by assertion and repetition of variations of the same theme.
    [email protected] wrote:
  • There are thousands of documents toowritten by the germans, describing the number of victims and the murdering process (although with tons of euphemisms). As I do speak german too, I can read them without needing a translation and I do consider them a strong evidence.
  • Dito. and Langowski and whoever compiled that didn't bring "thousands" together and none of this is "strong evidence" whatsoever.
    [email protected] wrote:
  • If there is a criminal plan going on, it has a lot of sense to cover it up as much as possible. Therefore it is normal that some evidence have been not yet found, that there are a lot of paradoxes or difficult to prove actions.

  • This is fallacious conspiracy logic:"There is no evidence, since it has been destroyed by the conspirators". That doesn't lessen the burden of proof, but doubles it.

    Indeed there are millions of documents relating to the treatment of the Jews during WW2. They just don't prove what is asserted repetitively, quite the opposite.

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    Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

    Postby Hannover » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 1:16 am)

    [email protected]:
    You really need to peruse this site. Chances are strong that what you think is unique & unexplored has in fact been covered. Your mention of Blobel jumps out.
    ex.: use the search function for Blobel.
    There's tons on him, the conditions under which he said what he said, and the complete impossibility of his 'statements'.
    The same for those "thousands of documents" you claim, but heretofore have not started threads about. Let's get to work.

    Cheers, Hannover

    “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
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    The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    The tide is turning.
    If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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    Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

    Postby Dutch beginner » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 1:39 am)

    Hi @Sigm,
    I think you are right that also revisionist did not have proof beyond a reasonable doubt what happened to the missed Jews. However, I am very sure that the official version could not be true.
    First of all, the eyewitness has very contra dictionary opinions what happened. Important, they speak of blue body's in gas chambers. But poisoning by cyanide or by Cole monoxide creates red-pink body's, and it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you can not gas people with diesel engines, because it has to much oxide and the level of Cole monoxide is to low (less then 1 percent)
    Peer reviewed investigations do not show cyanide residue in the gas chambers in Auschwitz. Auschwitz had 15 cremation ovens in Birkenau gas chambers, that means they can cremate only 15 body's per 2 hours. In total, Auschwitz had 50 cremation ovens.

    Also Majdanek could not be an extermination camp, because the number of victims dropped from 1.5 million to 72.000 with 6 gas chambers, now only 2 left in the official narrative. They said that the other 4 where indeed reconstructions of Russia, the other 2 are also reconstructions, as can be showed by air photo's.
    In Treblinca 2 it is said that 900 thousand Jews where buried, re-digged and burnt, but Krege prove that the ground on that place was not disturbed an it took many, many years (more then 10) to burn those people with wood and it took many squared km of wood, but Air photo's do not show that kind of less wood, hardly the number of trees was unchanged.

    According to Sanning, two millions (maximum) of Jews died caused by all causes. Many Jews died on the battle fields. An unknown number were murdered by Stalin in the Gulag, and by Baltic/Ukraine people and an unknown number were killed by the Germans.

    You have to many topics to give you a thoroughly answer

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    Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

    Postby [email protected] » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 7:52 am)

    Moderator wrote:Without them the various threads can be cluttered and difficult to follow.
    Since you have so many questions I suggest that you start threads for the individual topics, much better that way.
    Thanks & welcome.


    Hum, to be honest, I'm not sure how to proceed exactly as some of the information is interconnected and I don't want to do some sort of flooding by opening docens of threads, but I will give it a try for the future.

    In any case for this particular topic, if I need to focus and synthesize, I will prioritize the last three questions, mainly numbers and what would be in your opinion the sequence of the facts.

    Hektor wrote:That's quite an "American" portrayal of it. But also an enormous misrepresentation:
    * National Socialism was not Darwinistic - Naturalistic,but not Darwinistic.
    * Please show us in the party program (or other official documents) where it says Untermenschen/Uebermenschen
    * While one can certainly argue against it on ethical grounds, euthanasia isn't murder,
    * On what grounds do claim there was "aggressive propaganda" for it? There were some medical doctors, jurists, scientists arguing for this. But that's hardly "aggressive propaganda". Have a closer look at the Hitler decree relating to it and also consider the fact that it was withdrawn.


    First of all, thank you for the Reply.

    Well, I'm not american but european, and living in Germany since years :mrgreen: , which allows me to access, besides a lot of museums, some books, videos and pictures in archives that in other case wouldn't be possible.

    - I need to keep on in my arguments; yes, they were darwinistic, and yes, they did have a racial hygiene program.
    - In the case of the oficial program of the party, it's true, there is no single word for Übermenschen neither Untermenschen, although Feder mention in the 25 points (p. 18 for the english version) that only the germans are allow to be members of the nation, and [sic] "no jew, therefore, will be a member of the nation", later (p. 29 and 35): formation of a national state composed only by germans, dismissal of all jews from public life, and deporting them. Besides that, we have some exhibitions along Germany, although the most famous one was celebrated in München in what today is the Deutsches Museum, and also different magazines like Der Stürmer or Neues Volk for instance. Of course this itself does not proof the existence of any kind of plan to kill the jews or the considered racial aliens, but at least, that they were targeted in the german society. In combination with what was teaching in the schools (by the way, currently there is a temporary exhibition in Nurnberg about the school system in the NS time), and the propaganda, it is absolutely impossible from my point of view that there were no acts of violence of prosecution.
    - I wouldn't consider euthanasia a murder if it's according to the will of the person to be given a merciful death, but what about those unable to give an opinion? (with good health, but disabilities).
    - Puf, I could post a lot of images, but if I'm beeing acused now to write a lot, then for sure I would have another warning :mrgreen:

    Hektor wrote:Really? Did you ever have a look at it? It's an impression created by assertion and repetition of variations of the same theme.


    This is a bidirectional argument, as it goes against the official history but also supporting in, according to the witness. In this case, one could reduce it to a logical formula; (-1) + (+1) = 0.

    Hektor wrote:Dito. and Langowski and whoever compiled that didn't bring "thousands" together and none of this is "strong evidence" whatsoever.


    I need to give you the reason as in that site there is no thousand, but dozens (it was just a matter of saying). Outside that website, there are more, and I do actually have a folder in my computer full of scannings and pictures of documents with different content, and yes, I do consider them a strong evidence proofing that something "dark" was going on. I do also admit that for sure, some of them could be faked or made by the allies in order to blame the germans as they did with other stuff, but this is pure statistic; the larger the sample, the more precise will be the conclusion. If one bases only the holocaust in the Wannsee Conference or the Korherr Report, it is from my point of view, not enough to get a "big picture".

    Hektor wrote:This is fallacious conspiracy logic:"There is no evidence, since it has been destroyed by the conspirators". That doesn't lessen the burden of proof, but doubles it.


    Yes indeed, but one needs to walk on the shoes and the germans and the allies to reach the most impartial conclusions.

    Hektor wrote:Indeed there are millions of documents relating to the treatment of the Jews during WW2. They just don't prove what is asserted repetitively, quite the opposite.


    I didn't get it, sorry. Then, from your point of view, all the reports of shootings and executions from differents parts of the area controled by Germany are fake? I do consider true the documents regarding the Einsatzgruppen for instance (and only with the Einsatzgruppen we reach around 400.000-500.000 death toll).

    Hannover wrote:You really need to peruse this site. Chances are strong that what you think is unique & unexplored has in fact been covered. Your mention of Blobel jumps out.
    ex.: use the search function for Blobel.
    There's tons on him, the conditions under which he said what he said, and the complete impossibility of his 'statements'.
    The same for those "thousands of documents" you claim, but heretofore have not started threads about. Let's get to work.


    I'm a quite veteran forum user (not here, of course), and I do know how the search tool works, but in this case as this is my personal opinion and not something discussing facts (e.g. Babi Yar, Coleman in Auschwitz, Wannsee Conference and so on, just to give some examples), I didn¨t consider it necessary. Otherwise then for sure, it will be strictly advised. And I'm very very lost regarding the mention of Blobel. I didn't mention it/him,. What is that? (after posting this, for sure I will research it, no worries).

    Dutch beginner wrote:I think you are right that also revisionist did not have proof beyond a reasonable doubt what happened to the missed Jews. However, I am very sure that the official version could not be true.


    That's actually a tricky thing, because we have writings of documents reporting for instance, trains full of people to some camps (let's say, Treblinka to choose one example) going there full, and returning empty. One can think that the only proof that does represent is that they were taken out of the trains and conducted to the camp to stay there, but if there are no other reports of trains or trucks going ot to the camp to somewhere else and trains continue coming while the camp wasn't precisely one of the biggest, then, Where are they?

    Dutch beginner wrote:First of all, the eyewitness has very contra dictionary opinions what happened. Important, they speak of blue body's in gas chambers. But poisoning by cyanide or by Cole monoxide creates red-pink body's, and it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you can not gas people with diesel engines, because it has to much oxide and the level of Cole monoxide is to low (less then 1 percent)
    Peer reviewed investigations do not show cyanide residue in the gas chambers in Auschwitz. Auschwitz had 15 cremation ovens in Birkenau gas chambers, that means they can cremate only 15 body's per 2 hours. In total, Auschwitz had 50 cremation ovens.


    I do not believe the existance of the Zyklon-B gas chambers, neither the super ovens capable of burn to dust 4 corpses per minute, but I would rather believe in gasings through motors (discussing this alone will definitely need a separated topic). The point is that, if the S-Wagen are a myth and a faked evidence, We need to consider all the documents related to them (letters, reports, receipts and so on) fake too? There is a lot of them.

    Dutch beginner wrote:According to Sanning, two millions (maximum) of Jews died caused by all causes. Many Jews died on the battle fields. An unknown number were murdered by Stalin in the Gulag, and by Baltic/Ukraine people and an unknown number were killed by the Germans.


    I consider that death toll realisitc.

    Dutch beginner wrote:You have to many topics to give you a thoroughly answer


    Then I as I've said before, I would focus on my last three questions.

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    Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

    Postby Dutch beginner » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 8:56 am)

    @Sigm wrote:

    That's actually a tricky thing, because we have writings of documents reporting for instance, trains full of people to some camps (let's say, Treblinka to choose one example) going there full, and returning empty. One can think that the only proof that does represent is that they were taken out of the trains and conducted to the camp to stay there, but if there are no other reports of trains or trucks going ot to the camp to somewhere else and trains continue coming while the camp wasn't precisely one of the biggest, then, Where are they?


    That is also a mystery to be solved, however, what you say is not true. Indeed, we cannot trace where the most Jews went, after arriving in Treblinca/Sobibor, however, from a part we are able.

    E.g. the shoah foundation interviewed 15.000 survivors (approximately). A lot of them claimed to be transported to Treblinca/Sobibor and then they had to take a douche (E.g. in Treblinca 2, supposed to be extermination camp), were shaved/hair cut and then transported, together with hundreds other Jews, to other camps. You can find these testimony's everywhere on internet.

    Only this subject would take a thread. If you want to start a thread, look first to an existing.

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    Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

    Postby Dresden » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 10:21 am)

    sigm@ said:

    "Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinca and Belzek would be the extermination camps (I don't consider Auschwitz as one of them)"

    If Auschwitz was not an extermination camp, then all the "eyewitnesses" who said it was and claimed to see thousands of people gassed in gas chambers are LIARS, just like all of the Dachau "eyewitnesses".

    If you give up Auschwitz, the Hoax is exposed and obliterated.

    The average person has never heard of Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka and Belzek.

    ".....we have writings of documents reporting for instance, trains full of people to some camps (let's say, Treblinka to choose one example) going there full, and returning empty"

    I've never heard of these "documents".....where did the trains return TO, and why would you expect the same trains to return with the same passengers?.....that doesn't make any sense.

    It may be difficult to prove exactly where 900,000 people went after arriving at Treblinka, but we know for a dead certainty where they did NOT go.....they did NOT go into the ground.
    Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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    Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

    Postby hermod » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 10:40 am)

    Steve F wrote:".....we have writings of documents reporting for instance, trains full of people to some camps (let's say, Treblinka to choose one example) going there full, and returning empty"

    I've never heard of these "documents".....where did the trains return TO, and why would you expect the same trains to return with the same passengers?.....that doesn't make any sense.


    True. Travels by trains going full and returning full are no territorial evictions but one-day pleasure trips. :roll:
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    Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

    Postby Review » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 12:30 pm)

    You have "5 proofs" for and 9 against the orthodox holocaust narrative.

    3 of these 5 pro-exterminationist proofs are circumstantial/circular. That leaves us with 2: eyewitness and documentary evidence.

    From this you somehow end up believing in gas vans, extermination camps, mass killings on the eastern front..

    And the source you have is a german language archive.


    Your questions are already being discussed in other threads, btw.

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    Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

    Postby Hannover » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 3:26 pm)

    [email protected], you said:
    The point is that, if the S-Wagen are a myth and a faked evidence, We need to consider all the documents related to them (letters, reports, receipts and so on) fake too? There is a lot of them.
    Ok, show us these "documents". Original, real German official documents.
    You do realize that there are truly "thousands of documents" which prove witchcraft, right?
    Show us one of the bizarre 'gas vans'.

    BTW, no dodging at this forum.

    You also said:
    I consider that death toll [2,000,000] realistic.

    Please actually show us the human remains that must exist if your position is factual. Jews claim they know the precise locations, such as Babi Yar.
    So, is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    We're waiting, no dodging.

    And why have you stopped with your 'Blobel' argument?

    - Hannover

    “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    The tide is turning.
    If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

    Dutch beginner
    Member
    Member
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    Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:34 pm

    Re: I don't know what to believe, so many arguments against and in favour of the official version of the holocaust

    Postby Dutch beginner » 3 years 2 months ago (Mon May 16, 2016 4:24 pm)

    What is true about the holocaust narrative: There were shootings which killed many thousands innocent Jews in Russia because of anti partisan actions of the Germans, there were liquidations in camps like Sobibor and Treblinca, mass graves were exposed by Kola and other, but there is no evidence yet of an extermination program or killings of hundred thousand(s) Jews in camps in western Europe or in Poland.
    There is also still the question, what happened with the Jews sent to the east in Russia, from which many did not return. Both sides, believers and non believers, were not able to give a reliable explanation beyond a reasonable doubt. If believers could do so then I will believe it.


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