Were the gas chambers underground or not?

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Friens2020
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Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Friens2020 » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:47 pm)

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderbeh ... #Equipment

I have never heard of the claims that the gas chambers were in the underground, the cellars of the crematorias.

Now that I learned about this I am extremely confused. Don't like 90% of the testimonies and pretty much 100% of the hollywood movies depict the gas chambers as buildings on the surface where there was a line towards the entrance after which they directly entered the gas chamber, without going to a cellar? Wouldn't this mean that pretty much all of the testimonies can be declared as non-credible? I mean, I think I never heard a testimony in which someone said they had to go downstairs to a cellar to enter the gas chamber.


Besides of that, how is the letter by Karl Bischoff from 1943 in which he mentions the cellar gas chambers explained?

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby hermod » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:07 pm)

The 'gas chambers' of Krema II and III at Birkenau: underground (semi-underground in fact).
All the other ones: not underground.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Tomt » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:12 pm)

In the movies it's always the nazi on the rooftop. I think if the movies depicted the way it supposedly was most of the time then the person throwing the zyklon B would be in visible sight I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Tomt » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:19 pm)

I would like somebody to make a movie depicting 2000 people being gassed at once then brought up by a small hand driven elevator with no masks and a cane. Also digging up 1 million bodies and cremating them in two months time. Tell the real stories of the survivors. Tell the public what evidence you really have.

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Hannover » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:54 pm)

First, the two main alleged 'gas chambers' at Auschwitz/Birkenau (actually diseased corpse cellars/morgues) were partially underground. From a previous post:
photo 1 below: top of roof of crematorium no. 2
Taken January/February 1943 where there are no such 'little chimneys' or 'holes'. Note that the little chimneys are claimed to have been ca. 2 feet high. The snow is ca. 2-3 inches in depth.
According to Auschwitz "expert" Robert Jan Van Pelt (who appeared at the Irving/Lipstadt trial), the insertion columns (little chimneys), which were said to protrude out from the roof, were added as an adaptation in August, 1942.
Image

photo 2 below: the underside of crematorium II, post war
Notice no such openings / or holes exist in the underside of the roof in crematorium no. II, there is no indication that these opening / holes were filled in.
Image
more:
Below is from yet another post. It covers the absurdity of the Auschwitz/Birkenau gas chambers claim.

Hannover wrote:There is so much wrong and so much that is simply impossible about the 'holocaust' storyline that it's difficult to choose just one.

- The fact that not a single verifiable excavation of the alleged enormous mass graves and it's alleged contents of Jew corpses can be shown is a real contender.
- The doctored / faked photos, complete with altered aerial photos, are right up there.
On & on it goes.

However, the entire 'gas chambers', Zyklon-B gassing process alleged at Auschwitz / Birkenau works for me as a single example. The claimed 'facts' about it simply refute themselves. That's why I always say that debunking the 'holocaust' storyline is just too easy. The absurd 'shoah' narrative is like a 'cry for help', it's really that ridiculous.
Hannover wrote:Below I have posted what the 'holocaust' storyline claims about the alleged gassings at Auschwitz/Birkenau.
I have commented as the story moves along, in essence the claims are simply impossible.

Note that I have also added this model of what the inside of one of the 'gas chambers' is claimed to have looked like at end of an alleged gassing (up to 2000 per batch), an analysis of this model follows my text below.

Image

The two main 'gas chambers at Auschwitz / Birkenau were exactly the same, supposedly in Kremas II & III. So let's play along with the storyline. Up to 2000 Jews were supposedly gassed until dead, then they were supposedly taken via an elevator to the crematorium directly above.

Fact: as seen in the plans, this elevator is hand drawn, and is only 4 ft X 9 ft. How in the world could 2000 Jews have been loaded onto a 4 ft x 9 ft. hand drawn elevator in just a few minutes? Remember, the storyline says that the gassings and resultant cremations were non-stop for much of the period in question.

We supposedly have another batch of 2000 Jews waiting outside, supposedly being tricked into thinking they were about to receive showers. It would have been impossible to disentangle all the supposedly dead Jews and load 2000 of them onto to this postage stamp of an elevator, hoist them by hand up to the crematory 'ovens' in just minutes.
And this repeated process meant that the crematory ovens above would not have been capable of cremating them in the time alleged, which meant a build-up, a backlog occurred.
The storyline even states that the backlog of the to-be-cremated-gassed-Jews required stacking them outside. Once again, the alleged 2000 Jews were outside in full view of this laughable backlog claim, but supposedly they still thought they were getting 'showers'. Of course, timely aerial reconnaissance photos show nothing of the kind.

Furthermore, while the Jews were waiting outside, the storyline says that a SS man with a gas mask climbed upon the roof of the Kremas (only maybe 18 inches, or close to it, above the ground, Kremas II & III were largely underground) and dropped Zyklon-B granules into a container and lowered it down into the 'holes' in the roof, into the morgues which were supposedly converted into a gas chamber. The waiting 2000 Jews would have a clear view of the man on the roof's activity, yet these 2000 Jews were supposedly not concerned and still thought they were going to get innocent showers. The storyline is utterly ridiculous.

We're not done.

The Zyklon-B pesticide granules took/take hours to complete the outgassing of their cyanide load. The storyline says that this same SS man on the roof, supposedly wearing a highly visible gas mask, withdrew the container up from the 'gas chambers' in just minutes. Remember, the Zyklon-B pesticide granules were allegedly dumped and lowered into the 'gas chambers'. And since we know that the Zyklon-B pesticide would have taken hours to finish releasing it's cyanide load we have a situation where anyone in the entire area would have been vulnerable to gassing.
Yes, the storyline also says that there were vents which were used to remove the gas, but then we are still in a situation where the entire area is vulnerable to cyanide. Not to mention that this certainly would have been noticed by the alleged waiting 2000 Jews. And where does this SS man in a gas mask put the outgassing Zyklon-B pesticide granules which he has supposedly withdrawn, which would be releasing cyanide for hours?

The entire, bizarre story is unsustainable with even the slightest scrutiny. It's no wonder why Jewish supremacists trot out senile, lying 'survivors' (who wouldn't have even survived if the tall tales were true) for emotional impact. No wonder that there are Thought Crime laws against examining this absurd process. 'House of cards' is an understatement.

and:
ASMarques wrote:*** THE GREAT GAS CHAMBER TRAFFIC JAM ***

This would be the one picture I would choose for a crash-course in Holocaust awareness for the intelligent young, lest they forget. Much better than collecting millions of buttons, soda tabs etc.


Image

This is the scale model of Krema II in the Auschwitz Museum, apparently placed behind a glass protection in order to prevent the small dolls being stolen by visitors.

Key to the image:

0 - Reflection of the window on the opposite side of the room.

1 - Underground gallery where many hundreds of victims at a time got undressed for the fake showers in room number 2. According to some Holocaust scholars, this gallery is also supposed to have had fake showers installed in it, just to confuse the undressing victims.

2 - Underground gas chamber, called simply "morgue" or "mortuary cellar" in all German documents and blueprints, in order to fool the future generations of scholars looking for the mysteriously vanished Jewish race. This is where many hundreds of victims were gassed at a time, in a round-the-clock mass murder industrial process by Zyklon B, the same product used to preserve human lives by killing lice (unless the witnesses are lying or very, very confused).

3 - Small elevator bringing daily many thousands of gassed corpses from the underground chamber to the crematories at ground level. Known to the fun-loving SS as "The Little Elevator that Could".

4 - Crematory ovens where many thousands of corpses a day were instantly vaporized, without even having to wait for some heat to dissipate before each door opening, contrary to the ovens in your run-of-the-mill crematory. Alas, the technology of the ovens was one of the best kept secrets in the Reich (unless they were ordinary ovens operated by miracle) and no one has been able to duplicate it.

5 - The famous chimneys, producing lots of smoke, contrary to the chimneys on your run-of-the-mill crematory that produce none. This is attributed to the twisted minds of the German guards who attempted to hide their crimes from the curious in the neighbourhood by using dense curtains of artificial smoke.

Now that you know which room is which, don't let anyone distract your gaze away from the image. Picture the gold-mining brigades, struggling through the corpse-scape, trying not to absorb any cyanide residues trapped among the still palpitating bodies, in order to perform their difficult tasks, such as inspecting body orifices, pulling teeth off, smoking cigarettes and eating sandwiches (according to the Höss testimony).

Then comes the most important part. Wait for a few seconds, take a deep breath, and picture the enormous round-the-clock traffic jam at point number 3, during the process of emptying the gas chamber of bodies, through the small elevator room, with or without (as you prefer) the folks next door waiting, soap in hand, for their shower.

Finally, ask your teacher to point the place, any place, where all those typhus dead were deposited while the live folks were being gassed in the gas chamber the Germans called "a morgue".

If you get a satisfactory answer, please let me know.
also recommended:
'Cyanide Chemiatry of Auschwitz'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Friens2020 » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:53 pm)

Tomt wrote:In the movies it's always the nazi on the rooftop. I think if the movies depicted the way it supposedly was most of the time then the person throwing the zyklon B would be in visible sight I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

This raises another question: How did the 2 underground gas chambers work? If they were underground there obviously weren't the known openings on the roof through which Nazis could've thrown zyklon b canisters into the room.

NEVERMIND Hannovers post answered this.

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Friens2020 » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:01 pm)

Thanks Hannover!


How do you guys explain the letter by Karl Bischoff in which he talks about this rooms and calls them gassing cellars?

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Breker » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:05 pm)

Friens2020 wrote:Thanks Hannover!

How do you guys explain the letter by Karl Bischoff in which he talks about this rooms and calls them gassing cellars?

Could you be kind enough to show us the letter. Thank you.
B.

[Sorry to jump in, but try searching this forum for bischoff letter. Thanks, M1]
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Moderator » 3 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:44 pm)

Friens2020:
Please start a new thread about the letter of interest and make comments about any link given.
See guidelines.
Thanks, M1

i.e., from our guidelines at:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=358

Keep your threads / posts limited to one point.

If you post a quote or link from or to a book, a news article, magazine story, another website, etc., you must also comment on the quote or the link content. Tell the forum what you find wrong, compelling, unique, or important about the quote or link content. Flippant, overly brief comments are not acceptable. We want commentary and discussion.
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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Review » 3 years 5 months ago (Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:44 am)

Weren't most of the claimed "gas chamber" locations in reality morgues, for the crematoriums ?

Building a non-heated underground "gas chamber" meant for Zyklon-B, in which the hydrocyanic acid has a boiling point of ~27°C, seems kind of contradictory. The average annual temperature of Auschwitz is something like 8 or 9°C. On the other hand, building morgues in underground locations makes very much sense.

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Hektor » 3 years 5 months ago (Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:10 pm)

Review wrote:Weren't most of the claimed "gas chamber" locations in reality morgues, for the crematoriums ?

Building a non-heated underground "gas chamber" meant for Zyklon-B, in which the hydrocyanic acid has a boiling point of ~27°C, seems kind of contradictory. The average annual temperature of Auschwitz is something like 8 or 9°C. On the other hand, building morgues in underground locations makes very much sense.

You mean +27°C . Admittedly it also vaporizes below that point just much slower. Additionally the humidity can become a problem.

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby borjastick » 3 years 5 months ago (Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:29 am)

I don't know if this makes any difference or not but the non homicidal gas chambers, used for killing lice etc, were never underground as far as I know. And these were built intentionally for use. Therefore why would gas chambers built intentionally for the use of killing humans be underground? Thus we are left with the 'change of use' as claimed by some that those air raid-morgue chambers were turned into gas chambers.

If they were planning to kill all the jews from the start of the concentration camp/death camp programme why would any change of use be needed? There would not have been a need for storing bodies as they would have been disposed of quickly via the crematoria.

Hardly scientific I know but worth saying.
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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Review » 3 years 5 months ago (Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:01 am)

Hektor wrote:
Review wrote:Weren't most of the claimed "gas chamber" locations in reality morgues, for the crematoriums ?

Building a non-heated underground "gas chamber" meant for Zyklon-B, in which the hydrocyanic acid has a boiling point of ~27°C, seems kind of contradictory. The average annual temperature of Auschwitz is something like 8 or 9°C. On the other hand, building morgues in underground locations makes very much sense.


You mean +27°C . Admittedly it also vaporizes below that point just much slower. Additionally the humidity can become a problem.


Actually, I meant approximately +27 °C, hence the "~" sign.

Would it not be a little bit like trying to build a steam chamber, by creating water vapour heating water to, say, 80°C, or something ? Sure, you'd get some steam, but it would be very ineffective.

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby Hektor » 3 years 5 months ago (Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:15 am)

Review wrote:
Hektor wrote:
Review wrote:Weren't most of the claimed "gas chamber" locations in reality morgues, for the crematoriums ?

Building a non-heated underground "gas chamber" meant for Zyklon-B, in which the hydrocyanic acid has a boiling point of ~27°C, seems kind of contradictory. The average annual temperature of Auschwitz is something like 8 or 9°C. On the other hand, building morgues in underground locations makes very much sense.


You mean +27°C . Admittedly it also vaporizes below that point just much slower. Additionally the humidity can become a problem.


Actually, I meant approximately +27 °C, hence the "~" sign.

Would it not be a little bit like trying to build a steam chamber, by creating water vapour heating water to, say, 80°C, or something ? Sure, you'd get some steam, but it would be very ineffective.


But just a little bit. I think the vaporization properties of HCN are more like e.g. ethanol meaning it gives out more vapor before reaching its boiling point then water.

Just like water or ethanol, HCN will also cool down, when it vaporizing (the processes takes in energy) . Humidity from the air would then condensate on it more easily, too.

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Re: Were the gas chambers underground or not?

Postby WarpSoldier » 3 years 5 months ago (Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:35 pm)

The Birkenau alleged gas chambers were alleged to be underground because the Museum claims that this part of the basement was used as a body freezer, and that it was turned into a gas chamber because the screams of the gassing victims would be less audible to those in the camp. If you've seen Schindler's List, you'll see a scene towards the end of the film where the arrivals are divided and a group of people can be seen heading downstairs(obviously to the crematoria).


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