A few questions........

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
dalegribble
Member
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:52 am

A few questions........

Postby dalegribble » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:35 am)

can anyone answer these questions for me,
in 1995 L'Express paper reported that krema 1 was not a gas chamber and was built in 1948 by polish communists for the 'tourists benefit' IS THIS generally accepted now or is it still classed as revisionism,i remember reading that in one chamber at auschwitz there is a plaque mounted on the wall telling people that the room in question was not a gas chamber,ive searched for the book but am unable to relocate the article.basically all i'd like to know is whether this is 'accepted' or 'refuted' by non-revisionists.
I'd also like to know the 'source' that claimed 'schindlers list' was filmed in black and white for future generations to have holocaust footage,i remember it was said by a member of the film production but cannot remember the magazine that printed the story.

alpha

Re: A few questions........

Postby alpha » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:04 am)

dalegribble wrote:can anyone answer these questions for me,
in 1995 L'Express paper reported that krema 1 was not a gas chamber and was built in 1948 by polish communists for the 'tourists benefit' IS THIS generally accepted now


The homicidal gas-chamber was actually built and used by the Germans. However, in 1942/43 the gas-chamber and then the crematorium were shut down, the gas introduction holes were sealed, and the building was converted into a bombshelter. The Poles have simply converted the crematorium back into the extermination facility again.

Dan
Member
Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:25 am

Postby Dan » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:14 am)

And then they moved it with 700 men, just to confuse the issue more.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9805
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:37 am)

The problem for the Believer is that since there were no plans or architectural drawings for gas chambers and if the rooms that were found were no longer designed nor functioning as gas chambers, with what information was the room "restored"?

from Faurisson:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n5p12_Faurisson.html
The 'Gas Chamber' of Auschwitz I
Robert Faurisson
Since 1948, the year of the founding by Polish Communist authorities of the Auschwitz State Museum, millions of tourists -- 500,000 visitors per year in the early 1990s -- have visited the crematory building of the main camp (Auschwitz I) with its "gas chamber" room.

Museum guides present this crematory structure (Krema) and its "gas chamber" as genuine, but skeptical visitors who ask impertinent questions are told, since my own visits of 1975 and 1976, that this is, in fact, a "reconstruction," which we are further informed is an identical replica of the original. In reality, the whole is neither authentic nor an identical replica of the original. In 1941-42, the Krema was a very conventional crematory facility with, notably, a cool morgue room for temporary storage of corpses, and an incineration block with six ovens. In 1943-44, the six ovens were done away with and the morgue room, along with other parts of the building, were transformed into an air-raid shelter with a surgical operating room serving the nearby SS hospital.

I made these discoveries in 1975-76, and published the results between 1978 and 1980.

Eric Conan
Fifteen years later, a reporter-historian named Eric Conan, although quite hostile to revisionism, published in the January 19-25, 1995, issue of the large-circulation French weekly news magazine L'Express a lengthy essay, "Auschwitz: the Memory of Evil" ("Auschwitz: la mémoire du mal"), in which he denounced the falsifications of the crematory and its "gas chamber." [See "Major French Magazine Acknowledges Auschwitz Gas Chamber Fraud," in the Jan.-Feb. 1995 Journal, pp. 23-24.]

On this point, here are the findings of his inquiry - p. 68- , to which I have added emphasis to certain words:

In 1948, when the Museum was created, Crematory I was reconstructed [reconstitué] in its supposed original state. Everything in it is false [Tout y est faux]: the dimensions of the gas chamber, the locations of the doors, the openings for the pouring in of Zyklon B, the ovens (rebuilt according to the recollections of some survivors), the height of the chimney. In the late 1970s, Robert Faurisson exploited these falsifications all the better as the Museum officials balked then at acknowledging them.

Conan questioned a Museum official about what he calls a "misrepresentation" and about what, he reports, Théo Klein, former president of the CRIF, the "representative council of Jewish organizations of France," calls an "artifice." As Conan writes - p. 68 -:

Krystyna Oleksy, whose director's office, which occupies the former SS hospital, looks straight out on to Crematory [building] I, has not resigned herself [to telling the truth about the "gas chamber"]: "For the time being we're going to leave it in its present state, and not give any specifics to visitors. It's too complicated. We'll see later on."

This person's reply amounts to saying: "We have lied. We are lying. We shall continue to lie ... until further notice."

Debórah Dwork and Robert-Jan van Pelt
In 1996 a 443-page study of the history of Auschwitz, from the year of the town's founding to the present, was published by W.W. Norton (New York). Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present was written by two historians of Jewish origin, the American Debórah Dwork and the Canadian Robert-Jan van Pelt. They report that Auschwitz State Museum authorities have made alterations, transformations, and falsifications of the Auschwitz I camp site, with regard both to the detainees' reception building and to Crematory I with its "gas chamber." The authors use the following words: "postwar obfuscation," "additions," "deletions," "suppression," "reconstruction," "largely a postwar reconstruction" (p. 363), "reconstructed," "usurpation," "re-created" (p. 364), "falsified" (p. 367), and "falsifying" (p. 369).

On the subject of the "gas chamber" they write (p. 364): "[After the war] four hatched openings in the roof, as if for pouring Zyklon B into the gas chamber below, were installed."

As they further point out (p. 364), there is no sign or plaque to call the public's attention to any changes, about which "... the guides remain silent ... when they take the visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened."


Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

dalegribble
Member
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:52 am

Postby dalegribble » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:25 pm)

but do the 'believers' agree that krema I wasn't a gas chamber or do they put it down to 'revisionism'?in which case was the magazine wrong in saying it wasn't and did it suffer in any way after the statement was printed?

Hebden
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:17 am
Location: Here and there, mostly there

Re: A few questions........

Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:08 pm)

dalegribble wrote:can anyone answer these questions for me,
in 1995 L'Express paper reported that krema 1 was not a gas chamber and was built in 1948 by polish communists for the 'tourists benefit'


The magazine didn't say this. It said the gas chamber had been 'reconstructed', only that "the dimensions of the gas chamber, the locations of the doors, the openings for pouring in Zyklon B, the ovens (rebuilt according to the recollections of some survivors), the height of the chimney" are false.

Mr. Robert Jan Van Pelt wrote something in a similar vein in the 1997 book Auschwitz 1270: To the Present:

WHEN Auschwitz was transformed into a museum after the war, the decision was taken to concentrate the history of the whole complex into one of its components parts. The infamous crematoria where the mass murders had taken place lay in ruins in Birkenau, two miles away. The committee felt that a crematorium was required at the end of the memorial journey, and Crematorium I was reconstructed to speak for the history of the incinerators at Birkenau.

This program of usurpation was rather detailed. A chimney, the ultimate symbol of Birkenau, was re-created; four hatched openings in the roof, as if for pouring Zyklon B into the gas chamber below, were installed, and two of the three furnaces were rebuilt using original parts. There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened.


(http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Pelt/BookExtract.html)

That this 'revelation' could also be misinterpreted is shown by a letter from Mr. Irving to Mr. Van Pelt:"You quote Broad on pages 301-- 2 describing, in a 1991 book of memoirs, the "effective gas chamber which could hold 900 people" in the main camp (i.e. Auschwitz I), but on pages 363-4 you confirm that there never was a gas chamber at Auschwitz I, and that the one shown to tourists since the war was a fake built by the Polish communists."

[url](http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Pelt/query290597.html[/url])

Both Mr. Conan and Mr. Van Pelt would undoubtedly affirm the standard Auschwitz story which posits the existence of a gas chamber in Krema I.


dalegribble wrote:I remember reading that in one chamber at auschwitz there is a plaque mounted on the wall telling people that the room in question was not a gas chamber,ive searched for the book but am unable to relocate the article.basically all i'd like to know is whether this is 'accepted' or 'refuted' by non-revisionists.


We think you may have confused this with a similar sign at Dachau, which says, in effect, 'This room was built as a gas chamber, but never used.'
Last edited by Hebden on Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Temporary on hold
Member
Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:31 pm

Postby Temporary on hold » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:34 pm)

I think you are getting the drift of the answer to your question. The promoters of the Holocaust official canon are extremely reluctant to admit any "errors" in their stories. They recognize that to do so will start the whole mess unravelling. (Some of course are simply "true believers" in a faux-religious sense and simply will never accept any evidence).

An example is the reduction in the "official" claims of victims at Auschwitz, once memorailized at 4 million, now discreetly reduced to something like 1 million (depending on the source) without any impact on the related claims of a total of 6 million victims still repeated endlessly in the press. Details, details.

One of the few cases in which revisionists could reasonably claim "victory" should be the former allegations about "Jewish soap", now conceded to be false by all serious authorities. But believe it or not, there are those who continue to support those claims.

It is very difficult to confront the promoters on level ground and "serious scholarship" refuses to address the matters to their eternal discredit. Keep reading.

israelite
Member
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 10:09 pm

Re: A few questions........

Postby israelite » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:49 pm)

Alpha stated;

"The homicidal gas-chamber was actually built and used by the Germans. However, in 1942/43 the gas-chamber and then the crematorium were shut down, the gas introduction holes were sealed, and the building was converted into a bombshelter. The Poles have simply converted the crematorium back into the extermination facility again".

Question, if the gas chamber was shut down in 1942/43, and not converted back into a gas chamber until after the war by the Poles, then where were the people gassed during 1943/44?

Hebden
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:17 am
Location: Here and there, mostly there

Re: A few questions........

Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:02 pm)

israelite wrote:Alpha stated;

"The homicidal gas-chamber was actually built and used by the Germans. However, in 1942/43 the gas-chamber and then the crematorium were shut down, the gas introduction holes were sealed, and the building was converted into a bombshelter. The Poles have simply converted the crematorium back into the extermination facility again".

Question, if the gas chamber was shut down in 1942/43, and not converted back into a gas chamber until after the war by the Poles, then where were the people gassed during 1943/44?


In the gas chambers/crematoria of Birkenau, of course! One of the Bunkers is also supposed to have been re-opened in the summer of 1944.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Hektor and 18 guests