article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

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article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Hannover » 1 year 2 months ago (Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:06 pm)

David Irving is being used in an anti-Revisionist campaign, i.e. the movie 'Denial' as an accurate representative of Revisionist research.
He is certainly not that.
He's been set-up as the strawman, a false argument.
See this article at CODOH.

- Hannover

http://codoh.com/library/document/4104/
David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism
A crucial misrepresentation in the trailer for the upcoming film "Denial"

By Hadding Scott

brief excerpt:
Obviously the makers of Denial want the public to believe that falsifications by David Irving underpin the anti-Holocaust argument, but this is far from true. All the essential work was done by people other than David Irving. Again, David Irving is not an expert on the Holocaust. He has never written a book on the subject. Irving's role in Holocaust Revisionism, to the extent that it has been a positive role, has been mostly that he used his pre-existing notoriety to call attention to the findings of others. Consequently, any criticism of the methods or trustworthiness of David Irving as an historian should have little bearing on the credibility of Holocaust Revisionism.



related:
Video – Michael Hoffman on the new movie "Denial" and David Irving
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10604

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Hektor » 1 year 2 months ago (Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:48 pm)

I recall Irving stating that he was "no Holocaust Expert". He merely wrote books on world war two subjects nothing more nothing less.
All that David Irving has actually done is to give Holocaust Revisionism some attention, that the Holocaust Thesis does actually stand on some thin ice. But it's usually offered as a package deal spanning from NS-policies concerning Jews towards the supposed extermination of six million mostly with gas - But it seems they don't assert the homicidal gas chambers not as strong as in the past.
Irving wasn't on Trial, Deborah Lipstadt was. (I don't think that the movie misrepresents this though, but it's commonly assumed like the name Irving-Trial already implies).

The issue at hand was rather benign. Lipstadt calling him a "Holocaust Denier" and I thin falsifier of history as well, something to that extent. Now personally I'd have ignored this. In this game one needs to have a thick skin. Taken, getting disparaged by a book of a major publisher is annoying, but it can also become an asset. At least one isn't a boring historian, if they don't like you.

Irving may have lost the trial, but it was a Phyrrus Victory for the Holocaust industry. Lipstadt et al. had to put millions of pounds into their defense. This included the fees for lawyers, but also some lavish fees for several "experts" to testify. Apparently Lipstadt wasn't so sure of her case after all.
Perhaps someone knows what the exact amount of expenses by Lipstadt et al. were, before forcefully extracting money from David Irving?

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby flimflam » 1 year 2 months ago (Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:36 pm)

David Irving has done more to advance the case of holohoax 'revisionism' among the general population than any other person on the planet, and for CODOH to publish petty, spiteful, attacks on him is shameful. It is the Jews' 'culture of critique' applied to revisionism. The idea is to destroy by criticism, endless criticism, especially of the icons of the movement.

Take for example this perfectly idiotic sentence from the article ... 'The trailer also called Irving a liar and a falsifier of history, which -- as I demonstrated a few months ago -- is unfortunately true,' ...

This 'author' hasn't demonstrated anything to anyone other than himself, and yet he can offhandedly assert that Irving is a 'liar and a falsifier of history'. This kind of idiocy should not be published on CODOH.

I recently watched this vid .... David Irving 'The Nuremberg Trials'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3G3X5r3mM

and learned something about how the evidence was handled. You cannot listen to Irving for ten minutes without learning something absolutely fascinating.

Same topic, when Irving was more optimistic ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs7Y6kVyOvA

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Rogal Dorn » 1 year 2 months ago (Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:29 pm)

Silly me, and here I was, thinking it is a movie about the Irving vs. Lipstadt trial that took place in the 90s. I believe we even had a PBS Documentary about it some time ago called "NOVA: Holocaust on Trial"

flimflam wrote:You cannot listen to Irving for ten minutes without learning something absolutely fascinating.


Yup, like the fact that our Dresden expert took the Tagesbefehl-47 seriously and claimed it was a legitimate document until he was shown his errors by actual historians. What's Irving's degree, again? :bootyshake:

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Moderator » 1 year 2 months ago (Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:54 pm)

Rogal Dorn wrote:Yup, like the fact that our Dresden expert took the Tagesbefehl-47 seriously and claimed it was a legitimate document until he was shown his errors by actual historians. What's Irving's degree, again?

Please explain for our readers.
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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Hektor » 1 year 2 months ago (Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:53 pm)

Rogal Dorn wrote:...
flimflam wrote:You cannot listen to Irving for ten minutes without learning something absolutely fascinating.


Yup, like the fact that our Dresden expert took the Tagesbefehl-47 seriously and claimed it was a legitimate document until he was shown his errors by actual historians. What's Irving's degree, again? :bootyshake:


I'd love to see those actual degreed historians do some textual criticism on various other documents commonly accepted with a tendentious interpretation , but I guess this would be material for another thread.

David Irving on "Tagesbefehl 47":
http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/Dr ... _engl.html
Perhaps Rogal can elaborate on what (s)he means.

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Rogal Dorn » 1 year 2 months ago (Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:10 pm)

David Irving (at least as far as I am aware) no longer agrees that hundreds of thousands of people were killed in the Allied bombing runs on Dresden. Couple decades ago however, he did, and his Dresden book attracted a lot of attention and then (other) historians also started to look it up and realized part of his claims stemmed from a hoax document known as TB #47.

In fact, he is beginning to accept the death tolls of Aktion Reinhard as well, just haggling with the numbers, which is probably the reason why Hannover made the thread to point out how wrong it is for the mainstream to insinuate Irving as being the posterchild of revisionists in their new movie.

In this I agree, they should make a movie about Germar Rudolf's trip to Auschwitz and his decade of persecution, but that might give the wrong message to the average audience :D

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Moderator » 1 year 2 months ago (Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:23 pm)

RDorn:
You seem curiously evasive. We have a WWII Europe Forum should you care to debate Dresden numbers.
As for the Reinhardt camps go, there is plenty here on those. You can always start your own thread.
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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby hermod » 1 year 2 months ago (Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:04 am)

What?!? Deborah Lipstadt and her team never defeated Holocaust revisionism (or 'Holocaust denial' as specific anxious liars feeling the need to belittle their opponents with names, often put it) as a whole in court once and for all??? I'm stunned... :roll:
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby blacksmith » 1 year 2 months ago (Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:08 pm)

I FIND IT FASCINATING THAT THE VERY PEOPLE WHO CALL OTHERS LIARS ARE THEMSELVES LIARS. LET'S START WITH THE HOLOCAUST, THE MOTHER OF LIES. WHICH SURVIEVES BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO CALL OUT THE CONGENITAL JEWISH LIARS. DAVID IRVING'S MISTAKE WAS NOT GO INTO THE TRIAL WITH THE REAL EXPERTS ON THE HOLOCAUST. AS FOR THE JUDGE, THE LESS SAID ABOUT HIM THE BETTER.

AS AFINAL NOTE, THE MOVIE, A TOTALLY UNNECESSARY ADDITIOPN TO THE HOLOCAUST LIES WAS MADE TO REINFORCE THE DESPERATE ATTEMPT OF THE JEWS TO PRESERVE THIS IMMENSE LIE. ANY ONE OF THE TRUE HOLOCASUT SCHOLARS WOULD HAVE MADE MINCED MEAT OF THE LIPSTADT WITNESSES. NOTE THAT MADAME LIPSTADT DID NOT TESTIFY. WELL, ANOTHER OSCAR FOR THIS JEWISH GARBAGE.

BLAKSMITH

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Hadding » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:28 pm)

Some people, I notice, are more interested in defending David Irving than in defending Revisionism.

If David Irving derives a net benefit from my article despite the criticism of him that it contains -- which he seems to regard as the case, since he links to it in his online newsletter -- that is fine with me, as I harbor no ill will toward him, but the purpose was to defend Holocaust Revisionism.
Last edited by Hadding on Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Moderator » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:30 pm)

Hadding wrote:Some people, I notice, are more interested in defending David Irving than in defending Revisionism.

Please explain.
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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Hadding » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:09 pm)

For example, Michael A. Hoffman II, who created a bowdlerized version of my article that excludes all less than positive references to David Irving, and changed the title.
http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2 ... enial.html

And Flimflam, who hates the idea of criticizing David Irving so much that he asserts without reading it that my critique of David Irving's assertions in his "Talking Frankly" video didn't demonstrate that he had misrepresented anything.

I understand the idea of moderation in criticizing people on one's own side, but David Irving disowned Revisionism long ago. I see no reason for Revisionism to sacrifice its own credibility by trying to hide his faults.

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby flimflam » 1 year 2 months ago (Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:32 am)

"And Flimflam, who hates the idea of criticizing David Irving so much that he asserts without reading it that my critique of David Irving's assertions in his "Talking Frankly" video didn't demonstrate that he had misrepresented anything."

I read enough by you in the Weber article, and I called you on it ( re: Weber's paper on Roosevelt, this happened on another forum,), and I read your reply and it too was dissembling.

I have absolutely no respect for anyone who can offhandedly assert that Irving is a 'liar and a falsifier of history' or write that Weber is 'squishy and squashy'. I think you and the hyper-critics are doing a disservice to 'revisionism'.

Even now, your incessant carping is detrimental to mounting any counter to the Irving movie.

I'd like to add one thing .... in the annals of history the holocaust will finally be written about as an aberration, like the Salem witch trials. Now, does anyone speak of 'revising' the contemporary accounts of the Salem witch trials? No. And yet we, well, not myself, call ourselves holocaust 'revisionists'. This is terrible terminoloy, the holocaust is a pure fantasy, it did not happen, it cannot be revised, it must be exposed.

Finally, what really annoys me is that CODOH publishes your articles.

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Re: article: 'David Irving does not represent Holocaust Revisionism'

Postby Moderator » 1 year 2 months ago (Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:01 am)

flimflam,
Please cease your use of vulgar language at this forum, I edited that language from your above post.
Straight talk is fine, trash is not.
M1

see guidelines:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=358
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.


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