Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

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phdnm
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Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby phdnm » 1 year 2 weeks ago (Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:10 pm)

An EIGHT MONTH PRISON SENTENCE ........for a 87 YEAR OLD WOMAN.... :evil:

'Nazi grandma' sentenced for Holocaust denial

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2 September 2016

Berlin - A notorious 87-year-old Holocaust denier dubbed the "Nazi grandma" by German media was sentenced to eight months in prison on Friday on charges of sedition relating to her claim that Auschwitz was never used for the mass extermination of Jews.

Ursula Haverbeck, whose criminal record includes another 10-month jail sentence that she is currently appealing, wrote a letter to the mayor of Detmold in which she claimed it is "clearly recognisable" that Auschwitz was nothing more than a labour camp.

In Germany, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the mass murder of Jews during the Third Reich faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and a minimum of a fine.

The letter was written during the Detmold trial of Reinhold Hanning, a 94-year-old former Auschwitz concentration camp guard. Hanning was sentenced to five years in prison after the court found him guilty as an accessory to the murder of more than 170 000 people, mostly Jews.

In her letter, Haverbeck referred to the Holocaust survivors who gave testimony at the trial as "alleged witnesses" brought to Detmold for the sole purpose of proving that Auschwitz was a death camp.

The leading judge in the case said on Friday that Haverbeck refused to see reason and that her most recent comments to the court also made her liable to prosecution.

Haverbeck is a notorious right-wing extremist whose supporters often appear at her trials.

Various German courts have sentenced the recalcitrant Holocaust denier and her criminal record includes two fines and another suspended sentence for sedition.

She was taken to court last year for claiming on television that "the Holocaust is the biggest and longest-lasting lie in history."

Haverbeck announced her intention to appeal Friday's verdict.


http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/nazi-gr ... al-2063973



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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Hektor » 1 year 2 weeks ago (Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:05 pm)

Again? Are they keeping on busting her, like she was some dangerous criminal?

The verbosity of the article is also telling. (Holocaust Denier, Nazi, right-wing extremist, etc.) - Imagine we would use wordage like Christ-killers, Kikes, social parasites, etc. Would that be seen in the same benevolent light.

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Inquisitor » 1 year 2 weeks ago (Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:17 am)

It cannot be made more clear than this. No "truth" requires the imprisonment of 87 year old grannies to protect it! She is a threat only to a lie and to liars, so they act against her as only disgraceful lying cowards, with something to hide would act. To shut away an old woman as a "threat" because she dares to question a mind-bogglingly questionable "history" of her own country, is as dastardly and disgusting as can be.

It is those responsible for this and their enablers that are the true criminals!

---------

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Hektor » 1 year 2 weeks ago (Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:21 pm)

Inquisitor you are assuming too much. There is no real rationality in this, although there is of course a rationale. And that's that those questioning the Myth, must be somewhat evil. To punish them, it's OK to throw the pretense of Liberal Democracy out of the window. The sentences for Revisionism are in the line with rapists and robbers. Which clearly shows where the systems priorities lie.

Anyone with only slight juristical knowledge can see that this is a violation of the official constitution of Germany. That means that the judge would have been obliged to throw out the case or have to refuse to handle it. Even if he accepts the legislation in principle and is a true believer in the Holocaust, he could point out that there isn't really any incitement coming from what Mrs Haverbeck says, again reason to drop the case.

Those judges and prosecutors are the same people that will cite the "Radbruchsche Formel" and complain how "Unright" the NS-Justice system was. Usually invoking a screaming Freisler to make their case. That they themselves are doing worse under far less pressure doesn't come to mind.

But I guess we are dealing with pre-emptive obedience there. There is a complaint, they case gets on the roll, their is the legislation and then there is an eager prosecutor that makes a case on how dangerous this Ursula is with her "denying the Holocaust"

Meanwhile she's just citing a book:
https://archive.org/details/StandortUnd ... 940Bis1945
That was released by the IfZ years ago - taken at an exorbitant price for something that just were copies of orders without real copyright on.

And then she's drawing inferences from the book that are just flat logical. Yes, there was a concentration camp named Auschwitz in fact a complex of camps including Birkenau and Monowitz. Yes there were a lot of prisoners there, including Jews. Yes they were deported to that place, which they won't have done just by their free will. And then there were health problems, epidemics. That's all not in dispute. But show me one line from the book that could be interpreted as having an extermination program for Jews going on in Auschwitz or that the camp guards were acting malicious in any unreasonable way towards the prisoners.

So Ursula poses an absence of evidence argument. There is nothing in the orders that suggests a killing program for Jews employing Gas. To the contrary one can learn about quite some effort to make the stay as pleasant as possible for Jews.

In the case of an accusation hypothesis the absence of valid evidence is evidence for the accusation being false.

But here the BRD-Courts grasp for some sophistic, juristic trick, the socalled "Offenkundigkeit" (=Obviousness). That's a trump card, since it's obvious that it was all different then one learns from the documentary evidence, it must have happened. Since it must have happened, Holocaust Deniers don't have a case. As there is legislation that makes "Holocaust Denial" a "Crime", the deniers have to be punished. That then would be jail time or a fine. And apparently it's a priority crime. Given that they didn't do anything about all the illegal entries into Germany and the real crimes those "migrants" commit. In the past that wasn't much of an issue to most. But now the situation gets some contrast, Arabs can sexually molest German women and girls at will, but for "Holocaust Deniers" the full force of the state will be employed. I imagine that may anger more and more people, unless they are taken in too much by their vices and basically have switched off unless the paycheck doesn't come anymore.

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby phdnm » 3 weeks 3 days ago (Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:14 pm)

2 YEARS! for questioning a historical event ...

′Nazi grandma′ Ursula Haverbeck sent to prison for holocaust denial


August 29, 2017

An 88-year-old woman known as the 'Nazi grandma' has been sentenced to two years in jail for denying the holocaust and inciting hatred. Holocaust denier Ursula Haverbeck was handed a two-year prison sentence after she lost her appeal to reverse a 10-month sentence she received earlier this year.

Earlier this year, Haverbeck was found guilty of sedition, the offence of inciting others to hatred and rebellion, after she published several articles in which she denied that the holocaust occurred in local newspaper Stimme des Reiches (Voices of the Reich).

She also wrote a letter to the mayor of Detmold, a city in northern Germany, in which she referred to an Auschwitz as a "lie" and and claimed that the concentration camp was not an extermination camp, but rather a work camp.

She denied that Nazis had gassed Jewish people to death, claiming that it was "not historically proven."

"The Holocaust is the biggest and longest lasting lie in history," Haverbeck said during a television interview when asked about the trial of former SS guard Oskar Groening.

In November, the district court of Verden sentenced her to 10 months in prison for holocaust denial and incitement. Haverbeck's lawyer argued that the sentence violated her freedom of expression and called for her to be acquitted.

The grandmother appealed the court's decision, but on Monday 29 August she was found guilty of eight counts of inciting the German people to holocaust denial and sentenced to two years in prison without parole.

Haverbeck's husband was involved in the national leadership of the Nazi party during the Second World War and the couple maintained strong ties with several right-wing groups before his death.

In 2000, Haverbeck met neo-Nazi lawyer Horst Mahler and shortly afterwards she became deputy director of revisionist group 'Society for the Rehabilitation of Those Persecuted for Refutation of the Holocaust', chaired by holocaust denier Bernard Schaub.


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nazi-grandma-ursula-haverbeck-sent-prison-holocaust-denial-1637098

Ursula Haverbeck: The Panorama Interview, with English Subtitles


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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Hektor » 3 weeks 3 days ago (Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:26 pm)

phdnm wrote:2 YEARS! for questioning a historical event ...
....


Actually effective life sentence for speaking out against a non-event.

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby CognitiveDestruction » 3 weeks 3 days ago (Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:29 pm)

This is despicable. At 88 years old, Ursula should be spending her last years of life with her family. Putting somebody that old in prison for thought crimes is just plain harassment.

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby CognitiveDestruction » 3 weeks 3 days ago (Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:35 pm)

Hektor wrote:
phdnm wrote:2 YEARS! for questioning a historical event ...
....


Actually effective life sentence for speaking out against a non-event.


Hopefully she'll pull through, and then live her final years in peace. I'd feel sick to my stomach if she died in prison rather than in freedom with her family.

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Sannhet » 3 weeks 3 days ago (Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:59 pm)

They increased her sentence from ten months to twenty-four months? I am no law expert but I don't think this is usually the way appeals processes work...

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Dresden » 3 weeks 3 days ago (Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:05 pm)

Sannhet wrote:They increased her sentence from ten months to twenty-four months? I am no law expert but I don't think this is usually the way appeals processes work...


That's how it works for Nazis.

Talmudic "justice".
"I am willing to go to prison for the sake of the truth and the German nation. ... You are determined to destroy my convictions by imprisoning me, but it is beyond your power to do so." - Sylvia Stolz

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Metal Murphy » 2 weeks 5 days ago (Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:02 am)

This is sad. All for trying to defend her people from all of these base accusations.

The world needs more heroes like this, unfortunately they are few and far between. I'm skeptical that any leniency will be shown her.

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Rmbrmb21 » 2 weeks 5 days ago (Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:09 am)

She'll go down as a martyr. This doesn't help the industry in the slightest. Even ardent believers in the US are appalled, at least in the name of free speech, by this story.

More and more people will investigate and denounce these ludicrous laws in Germany and elsewhere. It would make a good conspiracy theory to say this is all a plot to initiate a nationalist revolution.

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby donron » 2 weeks 5 days ago (Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:52 pm)

Rmbrmb21 wrote:Even ardent believers in the US are appalled, at least in the name of free speech, by this story.


Could you please identify these appalled ardent believers?

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Rmbrmb21 » 2 weeks 4 days ago (Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:38 am)

donron wrote:
Rmbrmb21 wrote:Even ardent believers in the US are appalled, at least in the name of free speech, by this story.


Could you please identify these appalled ardent believers?


Generally, they can be found on Twitter. 4 pretty popular accounts that expressed disgust at the sentencing but still believe in the holocaust:

Roaming Millennial (@RoamingMil) 44.2K followers

Paul Joseph Watson (@PrisonPlanet) 693.2K followers

David Weissman (@davidweissman) 27.3K followers, he is also a Jew

Faith J Goldy (@FaithGoldy) 72.8K followers

There are probably more, but those look like the most popular accounts that have mentioned the affair.

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Re: Ursula Haverbeck sentenced to 8 months for Holocaust denial

Postby Lothario » 2 weeks 2 days ago (Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:51 am)

Rmbrmb21 wrote:
donron wrote:
Rmbrmb21 wrote:Even ardent believers in the US are appalled, at least in the name of free speech, by this story.


Could you please identify these appalled ardent believers?


Generally, they can be found on Twitter. 4 pretty popular accounts that expressed disgust at the sentencing but still believe in the holocaust:

Roaming Millennial (@RoamingMil) 44.2K followers

Paul Joseph Watson (@PrisonPlanet) 693.2K followers

David Weissman (@davidweissman) 27.3K followers, he is also a Jew

Faith J Goldy (@FaithGoldy) 72.8K followers

There are probably more, but those look like the most popular accounts that have mentioned the affair.


Thanks for this information. It's good to see the reactions on their tweets. A big majority supports Haverbeck's right to free speech and about half agree with her. It also got people to think she might be right and start their own research.

Who would have thought imprisoning a 88 year old lady for thoughtcrime would backfire? As one person nicely put it: "They don't jail for lies. They jail for truth."
"In science consensus is irrelevant. … There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period." - Michael Crichton


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