German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

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German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby Hieldner » 2 years 11 months ago (Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 am)

This morning all 4 top stories in the online edition of this magazine, which suffered major losses in reputation, readership and competent journalists in the last few years, were about the Holocaust, the first one being “75 years massacre of Babi Yar: The victims have names.”
https://archive.fo/L481N

In this first article (Google Translate), they quote from Timothy Snyder’s Bloodlands and show a short list of supposed Babi Yar victim names and occupations someone entered into the dubious Yad Vashem database.

The next article (Google Translate) “We make ourselves more innocent than we are” is an interview with Timothy Snyder. In his short profile they “forget” to mention his CFR membership. He makes the point that the destruction of states played a more important role than anti-Semitism:
Let's compare: In Estonia, 99 percent of the Jews were killed, in Denmark 99 percent survived. The difference was not that anti-Semitism prevailed in one state but not in the other. Instead: Estonia was the victim of a destruction of the state, while Denmark was occupied in a conventional way.

He continues with suggestions straight from the playbook of B’nai B’rith Canada director Ian Kagedan (“Achieving our quest of a 'new world order' depends on our learning the Holocaust's lessons”).
Poles and Ukrainians, Russians and Lithuanians have to think about the Holocaust just like the Germans. But of course not about the same role.

This week, the Ukraine and several NGOs organized a commemoration at Babi Yar, with lectures, readings, conferences and concerts in Kiev. This is one of the most intense commemorations of the Holocaust that we have ever seen. Ukrainians even dare to discuss the participation of non-Jewish people from Kiev in the massacre at Babi Yar and of Soviet citizens in the Holocaust as a whole. I find it very important that the Germans support these efforts.


The third article “I fell down on human corpses” (Google Translate) is about “Babi Yar eye-witness” Dina Pronicheva, who miraculously survived to tell her Babi Yar story.

The last article “The order was that the Jewish population should be totally exterminated” (Google Translate, full text only for paying subscribers) is about the Nuremberg trial testimony of Otto Ohlendorf.

Then there is a WELT article about Babi Yar by the head of the World Jewish Congress Ronald Lauder himself, titled: “We need more Holocaust commemoration, not less” (Google Translate). He doesn’t exactly specify whom he talks about when he says “we.” Another one by WELT chief historian Dr. Sven Felix Kellerhoff titled “Babi Yar massacre: The murder of thousands as daily routine – and amusement” (Google Translate) in which he tells us that the Nazis actually murdered 200,000 people in the Babi Yar ravine from 1941 until 1944 and invents a new context for a famous photo showing a German soldier who doesn’t aim at a woman and her child, even though he is about to shoot them: the photo was shot for amusement.
Image

A German soldier sent this picture captioned “Ukraine 1942, Jewish Action, Ivangorod” back home. But it was pulled out of the field post by Polish resistance fighters in the Warsaw post office. The motif, the caption and the fact that it had been sent to Germany, even though it never got there, can only mean one thing: It should have served for the amusement of relatives or friends at home.

The exhibition organizers around Ulrich Baumann have likewise examined and checked all the other photographs as thorough as this.


FAZ features an article titled “Massacre of Babi Yar - Buried Memories” (Google Translate). Surprisingly, leftist ZEIT is content with a very short article “Pictures against oblivion” (Google Translate) with bizarre pictures of wrinkly old Jew faces, one of which is dressed up as a concentration camp inmate, and a short video interview with “eye-witness” Raissa Maistrenko. Of course, state propaganda from ARD (Google Translate and ZDF (Google Translate) isn’t missing.

LOL

I think this signifies a further shift to the East in the official Holocaust narrative. Maybe they think they need to revamp their product a bit, which is mainly about old Auschwitz, plus mental preparation for the upcoming Lipstadt movie.

Chapter in Dissecting the Holocaust dealing with Babi Yar and the testimony of Pronicheva
CODOH Forum: Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked
Ohlendorf’s testimony at the Nuremberg trials
CODOH Forum thread about Ohlendorf
Didi18’s translations of Vincent Reyounard’s Einsatzgruppen videos (CODOH Forum discussion)
Carlos Porter on Nuremberg trial Einsatzgruppen document L-180
Carlo Mattogno’s My Banned Holocaust Interview
Patrick Desbois and the “Mass Graves” of Jews in Ukraine by Carlo Mattogno (CODOH Forum discussion)
»[Holocaust soap] odor, if captured and retained… would preserve the core of an individual soul… The undesirable smell of the extract spoke of the spectral Derridian trace… that continued to remind its consumers of their own bio-ontology.«—B. Shallcross

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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby Hieldner » 2 years 11 months ago (Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:56 pm)

Unpopular German president Joachim Gauck, who conducted a sort of Holocaust-site tourism during his presidency, attended a commemoration event in the Ukraine to present his sad face in public while giving a speech: “We Germans talk about immeasurable guilt” (Google Translate).
Gauck warned not to close one’s eyes to injustice. “Not to evade own fault, own failure, is a multi-generational process,” Gauck said on Thursday in Kiev. This contention had “shaped Germany,” today this process is likewise “not completed.”

At the end he basically quotes Tim Snyder
But Gauck goes one step further. He reminds us of a common culture of remembrance of the Germans, Jews, Ukrainians, Russians and Poles. The perpetrators [Europeans] just like the victims [Jews].

Maybe we get some more support from these countries now :)

The first comment was: I’m sick and tired of it! (deleted) The others are negative as well.
»[Holocaust soap] odor, if captured and retained… would preserve the core of an individual soul… The undesirable smell of the extract spoke of the spectral Derridian trace… that continued to remind its consumers of their own bio-ontology.«—B. Shallcross

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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby Hektor » 2 years 11 months ago (Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:29 pm)

Hieldner wrote:This morning all 4 top stories in the online edition of this magazine, which suffered major losses in reputation, readership and competent journalists in the last few years, were about the Holocaust, the first one being “75 years massacre of Babi Yar: The victims have names.”
https://archive.fo/L481N
....

What's the names of Katyn Massacre victims - for example - I guess many massacres and executions by the GPU, NKWD, etc. aren't even ever mentioned, although documentary evidence exists and the mass graves would be traceable.

Hieldner wrote:FAZ features an article titled “Massacre of Babi Yar - Buried Memories” (Google Translate). Surprisingly, leftist ZEIT is content with a very short article “Pictures against oblivion” (Google Translate) with bizarre pictures of wrinkly old Jew faces, one of which is dressed up as a concentration camp inmate, and a short video interview with “eye-witness” Raissa Maistrenko. Of course, state propaganda from ARD (Google Translate and ZDF (Google Translate) isn’t missing.

LOL

I think this signifies a further shift to the East in the official Holocaust narrative. Maybe they think they need to revamp their product a bit, which is mainly about old Auschwitz, plus mental preparation for the upcoming Lipstadt movie.

Chapter in Dissecting the Holocaust dealing with Babi Yar and the testimony of Pronicheva
CODOH Forum: Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked
Ohlendorf’s testimony at the Nuremberg trials
CODOH Forum thread about Ohlendorf
Didi18’s translations of Vincent Reyounard’s Einsatzgruppen videos (CODOH Forum discussion)
Carlos Porter on Nuremberg trial Einsatzgruppen document L-180
Carlo Mattogno’s My Banned Holocaust Interview
Patrick Desbois and the “Mass Graves” of Jews in Ukraine by Carlo Mattogno (CODOH Forum discussion)



And what evidence do they present? Let me guess, innuendo is all the audience will get.
Here is a shockumentary by the Soviets on this:
https://archive.org/details/SovietPropa ... sShootings
And here is something on the tale in German:
https://archive.org/details/BabiJarDasV ... neMassaker

Can't say that it is "Eastward shifting", but it's the usually blame-shifting on accused that can't talk back plus making sanctimonious appeals that "This must never again happen".

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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby Breker » 2 years 11 months ago (Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:31 pm)

Seriously?
The allegations made about Babi Yar have got to be some of the simplest of lies to debunk.
Keep up the good work Spiegel, you're doing revisionists a favor.
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby Hieldner » 2 years 11 months ago (Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:58 am)

Israeli President Reuven Rivlin is “sitting in the face of Ukrainians”:
JTA - A senior state historian of Ukraine accused Israel’s president of repeating a Soviet “myth” about Ukrainians’ complicity in the Holocaust as the East European country held the largest event in its history commemorating the genocide.

Volodymyr Vyatorovych, director of the Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance, leveled the accusation against Reuven Rivlin, as hundreds of guests from dozens of countries were preparing to convene at Babi Yar for a ceremony to commemorate the murder 75 years ago of at least 33,000 Jews at that ravine in Kiev.

The Ukrainian government organized the event in cooperation with the World Jewish Congress.

Rivlin, who was scheduled to attend the ceremony before cutting his Ukrainian visit short to attend the funeral of Shimon Peres, said during his speech Wednesday before the Ukrainian parliament that members of the nationalist OUN militia and others were complicit in the Nazi extermination of Jews in Ukraine. This prompted Vyatorovych to say that Rivlin “repeated the Soviet myth” of involvement by the OUN militia, Ria Novosti Ukraina reported.

The exchange comes amid a polarizing debate about the Holocaust in Ukraine, where in 2014 nationalists led a successful revolution against a president whom they said was a pawn of Russia. Many Ukrainians perceive Moscow as an enemy out to deny sovereignty to their nation.

Rising nationalism in post-revolution Ukraine, critics have charged, is leading to the veneration of war criminals who murdered Jews alongside the Nazis and their celebration as patriotic heroes because they also fought against Russian domination.

In a rare joint statement, more than 20 Ukrainian Jewish groups in July called such moves a form of “Holocaust denial.” Eduard Dolinsky, director of the Ukrainian Jewish Committee, said they were undermining the sincerity of the government’s efforts to commemorate the Babi Yar anniversary, and overshadowing the event.

Acknowledging these concerns, Rivlin said during his speech: “About half a million Jews were murdered in what is now Ukraine during World War II, in Babi Yar and many other places, they were shot in Forests or in ravines. Many collaborations in these crises were Ukrainians. Among them, combatants of the OUN stand out especially [for how] they humiliated Jews, killed them, and in many cases betrayed them to the Germans.”

Rivlin’s statement caused an uproar among nationalist politicians and other key figures in Ukraine. Bogdan Chervak, the first deputy chairman on the State Committee for Television and Radio of Ukraine, said that “What Rivlin did can unambiguously be interpreted as sitting in the face of Ukrainians” at a time when the people he accused of perpetrating crimes are no longer alive to defend themselves.

Rivlin also noted the actions of Ukrainian non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews during the Holocaust. Israel’s Holocaust commemoration authority, Yad Vashem, has awarded 2,544 Ukrainians with the title of Righteous among the Nations for such actions. Ukraine has the fourth largest number of Righteous, after Poland, the Netherlands and France.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko called on the international community to financially support the creation of the Holocaust memorial museum in Babi Yar.

“I urge the Ukrainian and world community to join this initiative,” he said during the presentation of the film about the massacre.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/218493
»[Holocaust soap] odor, if captured and retained… would preserve the core of an individual soul… The undesirable smell of the extract spoke of the spectral Derridian trace… that continued to remind its consumers of their own bio-ontology.«—B. Shallcross

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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby Landulf » 2 years 11 months ago (Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:05 am)


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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby Hektor » 2 years 11 months ago (Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:15 am)

The message is clear - they got a narrative and that story got a moral - like every cute fairy tale ha:
- People who "hate Jews" are evil // Just don't mention that there may have been good reasons for that "hate". So don't talk about the Jewish role in Communism. destruction of Ukrainian economy, executioners, etc.
- The blame/guilt/shame for hate is collective. All, in this case Ukrainians are guilty, even and especially, if they "did nothing".
- Some Ukrainians were not so guilty, because they "helped Jews".
- People should emulate people that "help Jews".

I think a pole, by the name of Gabis pointed out the religious aspects of Holocausting years ago.

In the light of being "in your face of Ukrainians", check what Yoah Shamir points out in his movie to some members of the ADL:
https://archive.org/details/YoavShamirsDefamation

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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby hermod » 2 years 11 months ago (Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:39 am)

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby Moderator » 2 years 11 months ago (Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:34 am)

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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby ginger » 2 years 11 months ago (Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:05 am)

There was a report on Babyn Yar and Joachim Gauck's tour of atrocity sites on Thursday's 9/29/16 Deutche Welle (English) news webpage. Gauck said Germans must own up to their past - ! - it said 33,000 people were shot in 2 days! How can that be? What research I have done on Babi-Yar says they didn't find the corpses - the Germans dug them up and burned them. What a strange story. Why must Germans own up to these questionable stories. Deutche Welle should take the deutche out of its name because it constantly denigrates Germans.

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Re: German SPIEGEL launches major Babi Yar propaganda stunt

Postby Hektor » 1 year 6 months ago (Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:33 am)

ginger wrote:There was a report on Babyn Yar and Joachim Gauck's tour of atrocity sites on Thursday's 9/29/16 Deutche Welle (English) news webpage. Gauck said Germans must own up to their past - ! - it said 33,000 people were shot in 2 days! How can that be? What research I have done on Babi-Yar says they didn't find the corpses - the Germans dug them up and burned them. What a strange story. Why must Germans own up to these questionable stories? Deutche Welle should take the deutche out of its name, because it constantly denigrates Germans.

Their is a presumption of guilt with any accusation against Germans. If Germans are accused of something, it must be true. If somebody disputes it, even if he has good arguments for doing so, He's a "Holocaust Denier" trying to "whitewash the Nazis and Hitler".
It goes even further than National Socialism now. Stuff being debunked a long time ago is now rediscovered. Think of the "genocide of the Herero", which is what they made of a military and police operation against a group of people in South-West-Africa that previously had murdered a number group of people. The Brits made some propaganda about this, which later was distracted.
World War one is also Germany's fault, which was the argument at Versailles. At a time this was debunked and actually the consensus of MS-historians was that Germany was least culpable of the conflict.

Even benign issues are picked up, like Krupp exhibiting a canon at a Paris Trade Fair. Supposedly this was flying in the face of the French and demonstrated German aggression.

There is a pattern here. The Germans are guilty of everything that went wrong in recent history. And by extension White people are guilty of everything, especially White heterosexual males who happen to be Christians.


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