The "Holes" Report

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The "Holes" Report

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed May 12, 2004 8:38 am)

The long awaited "holes" study has finally arrived!

The Ruins of the Gas Chambers: A Forensic Investigation of Crematoriums at Auschwitz I and Auschwitz-Birkenau
Keren D.; McCarthy J.; Mazal H.W.
Holocaust and Genocide Studies, 2004, vol. 18, no. 1, pp. 68-103(36)
Oxford University Press

Abstract:
Combining engineering, computer, and photographic techniques with historical sources, this research note discusses the gas chambers attached to crematoriums at Auschwitz I and the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp. Among other things, the authors identify the locations of several of the holes in the roofs through which Zyklon B was introduced: five in Crematorium I and three of the four in the badly damaged Crematorium II. The authors began their project before David Irving's libel suit against Penguin Books and Deborah Lipstadt, proceeding simultaneously with, but independently of, the trial. The defense presented the first version of the authors' report during Irving's subsequent application to appeal. Irving's application was rejected by the court.
This article is available for purchase.

$31.93 plus tax

The exact price (including tax) will be displayed in your shopping cart before you check out. You will be able to remove this item from your shopping cart at any time before you have completed check-out.
http://www3.oup.co.uk/holgen/current/dc ... m.abs.html

You get what you pay for, my mother used to say.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed May 12, 2004 9:42 am)

It's obvious now why one of our participants avoided posting specific info. about this so called 'report' after he mentioned it.

This is just another example of believers not being able to keep their stories straight as Auschwitz 'expert' Van Pelt has previously said the these 'holes' were not visible, but then this Mazal character comes up with this silliness.

Mazal debunked, have a look:
1. from Samuel Crowell:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/con ... hoto2.html

2. David Irving’s overall index on the ‘holes’ alleged for Zyklon-B, with contributions a plenty:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/con ... index.html

3. from Brian Renk:
From the 'Mazal Library' we have a photo which supposedly depicts what is labeled 'hole #2' (alleged Zyklon-B insertion opening at Auschwitz-Birkenau)
Note the caption at the bottom of the photo:
'note separated piece of concrete which originally formed part of hole #2 at lower left. The bent and cut rebar is clearly visible'. (!!!)
Is this a 'Freudian slip' on the part of Mazal? A cry for help? It could not have been removed by the Germans in late 1942 to early 1943 and left lying around on the roof until the end of the war. It was either blown out in the explosion of 1945 or it was removed after that time by persons unknown.
http://www.mazal.org/Auschwitz%20jpg/KII/K2-093.jpg

And, a picture is worth a thousand words; no alleged 'holes' in roof above here, oops:
Image

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby trtsk » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed May 12, 2004 10:25 am)

So you've read the report Hannover?

Tom

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Postby rrohde » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed May 12, 2004 11:01 am)

"Combining engineering, computer, and photographic techniques with historical sources[...]"

Are they saying that they used high-tech picture altering to please the believers? :D
Will there be more fake photos hidden behind the "scientific research" label again?

Who knows... But hey.. the truth costs you only $31.93 plus tax...... heheh.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed May 12, 2004 1:59 pm)

trtsk asks:
So you've read the report Hannover?

Yes.
So, what do you find compelling about it?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby kk » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed May 12, 2004 9:36 pm)

I'm looking forward to C. Mattogno's answer.
(Although the answer is already there, but the believers won't
acknowledge it.)

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed May 12, 2004 10:46 pm)

The report is 36 pages long, with many graphics. It takes some time to really go through it.

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Postby trtsk » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu May 13, 2004 1:00 am)

rrohde wrote:Who knows... But hey.. the truth costs you only $31.93 plus tax...... heheh.


Rudolf's The Revisionist is just as pricy.

Tom

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Postby trtsk » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu May 13, 2004 1:02 am)

Hannover wrote:So, what do you find compelling about it?


I think the fact that Mazal, Keren, and McCarthy identified three of the four holes conclusively and pretty much nailed down the fourth one is what I find compelling about it.

In other words, the holes are quite clearly there.

Why do you find it less than convincing, Hannover?

Tom

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Postby trtsk » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu May 13, 2004 1:03 am)

kk wrote:I'm looking forward to C. Mattogno's answer.
(Although the answer is already there, but the believers won't
acknowledge it.)


Of what answer do you speak?

Tom

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu May 13, 2004 9:44 am)

trtsk said:
I think the fact that Mazal, Keren, and McCarthy identified three of the four holes conclusively and pretty much nailed down the fourth one is what I find compelling about it.

Where are these holes, exactly, and what part of the report supports your position?... be specific.

Why have you ignored the other information which debunks this 'report' that I posted.

Why is there no hole under the roof as shown in the photo I posted.

Is Van Pelt a liar? .....he said the supposed 'holes' were not visible.

see thread:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=689

I have already given many examples of why this report is laughable, now please respond to my challenge.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu May 13, 2004 11:20 am)

KK wrote: I'm looking forward to C. Mattogno's answer.

I am sure that Mattogno is already working on this report.

Here is my cursory review:

If you expect to find in the new hole report an architectural plan of the Krema II, morgue 1 ceiling with details of the Zyklon-B insertion holes, you will be disappointed. There is no such a plan.

An attempt was made to establish the exact location of the insertion holes by overlaying photographically this well known pictures:
Image
with an architectural three-dimensional view of the morgue prepared by the authors.

You will be disappointed if you expect to find well defined sharp edged insertion holes like the ventilation openings in the ceiling of the oven room of Krema III like these:
Imageor:
Image or:
Image
But the authors attempt to convince us, that holes like the one below, where the ceiling seperated itself and ripped off the support columns during the dynamiting of the building, were the Zyklon-B insertion holes:
Image
IMO it is not difficult to make up one's own mind.

fge

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Postby Moderator3 » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 pm)

trtsk:
You have been challenged with specific points, but yet you continue to post the same assertions without addressing the points put to you. Please respond with specifics in this report which address the challenges made.
M3

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri May 14, 2004 1:24 am)

trtsk:
We thought M3 made it clear:
Please respond with specifics in this report which address the challenges made.

IOW, what exactly in the report rebuts the criticism of Mazal's 'holes' ideas?

And, it needs to be said that Mazal's 'holes' ideas were offered long before they appeared in this report, meaning that they were rebutted (as shown in earlier posts) prior to the report being made public. The rebuttals are still in effect as the arguments they rebut are contained within the report. So your excuse that the report was released after the rebuttals doesn't hold up.

Fish or cut bait, Tom.

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Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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The "Hole"-Report

Postby comrade seinfeld » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue May 18, 2004 6:37 pm)

According to rrohde:
"Combining engineering, computer, and photographic techniques with historical sources[...]"

Are they saying that they used high-tech picture altering to please the believers?
Will there be more fake photos hidden behind the "scientific research" label again?

Who knows... But hey.. the truth costs you only $31.93 plus tax...... heheh.



However, I do believe that I know a way to freely access the particular article from the "Holocaust and Genocide Studies" journal. The actual url for the article is http://oup.co.uk/holgen/current/pdf/dch040.pdf , and, although at the present time I am able to freely access it from a university library database, I doubt if those reading this forum would be able to, since, of course, different servers are involved (unless they are using a university computer which has free access to the journal). This url is different from that first offered by Sailor when he started this thread, but that is just the difference between a html and a pdf url, which is all somewhat of a mystery to me!

However, if you link to a website called http://proxify.com , and put the above url for the article on "holes" in the text box of this search engine (I suppose you would call it) then you will probably be able to freely access the particular pdf. This http://proxify. com has been very useful to me in regards to blocking on publicly available computers, since it is able to overcome all blocking, and it will probably work in relation to the above debate concerning the "holes". I have not tried it myself because I haven't been able to be near a computer in the last few days, and the particular computer I am using at present has free access to the article anyway.

It is probably not necessary for me to mention it but to be able to freely access the article by the method I have outlined could constitute a breach of copyright (presumably university libraries have paid for the service), especially since the exterminationists will probably snitch on you. But I would hope that fearless revisionists would not let such trivialities deter them!


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