Talking with believers

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hermod
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Re: Talking with believers

Postby hermod » 5 years 6 months ago (Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:39 pm)

Dutch beginner wrote:An important source is the Korherr report and a piece of tekst in the diary from Goebels. The text is vague, and it is only circumstantial evidence. But I was impressed anywhay.


I guess that you've read a few quotes from Goebbels' diaries. You'd better read ALL of what Goebbels wrote about Jews in his diaries. Thomas Dalton has gathered all Goebbels' diary quotes about Jews.

You can see it here: http://codoh.com/library/series/3110/

Reading the whole thing clearly shows that Goebbels wasn't talking about any mass murder of Europe's jews in his diaries, even if some of his words look impressive and incriminating. Goebbels was a rabid antisemite and his words were often harsh when he talked about Jews. Nothing new. He would probably have mass murdered Europe's Jews if he had been the Third Reich's supreme leader. But he was not. He was "only" the Minister of Propaganda and the Gauleiter of Berlin. His job was the production of educational material and the administration of Berlin. His only connection with the solution of the Jewish problem was the production of antisemitic material for the German movie theaters, radio stations and newspapers, as well as the expelling of Berlin's Jews, not the administration of alleged "death factories" in Eastern Europe.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby borjastick » 5 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:53 am)

On BBC TV this morning there was a discussion programme live in the studio. The programme is called The Big Questions and today the Big Question was Is it time to lay the holocaust to rest?

The studio was full of survivors, rabbis (at least three) and various people with an agenda to push or those totally reliant on the holocaust money tube. Eg. Holocaust Education Trust and several other 'charities' whose very existence relies on the furthering of the holocaust myth.

In short they were all believers and some were quite angry about the whole event.

The presenter, Nicky Campbell, was fair and shoved the conversation around and did try to talk about denial, revisionism and other great suffering such as the Armenian Genocide, a subject I know little about. The jewish charity lady he asked about the Armenian Genocide wouldn't answer his questions, why? What is the issue with jews and the Armenian genocide? Were they involved or was it worse than their holocaust.

They didn't want to spread the pain at all, in other words they were defiant and very pushy in Jewish suffering being worse than any other.

At one point the subject of Israel came into play and the fat old Rabbi from Manchester got heated saying that 'Israel was created from the ashes of the Holocaust and as such there is nothing to apologise for'.

One female rabbi claimed the 'facts of the holocaust are held dear by us, they are not for discussion'. I was wondering what facts she thinks she has that prove the claims made for six million dead.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby Hannover » 5 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:31 am)

The 'holocaust' nonsense is not about facts and honesty. As borjastick mentions, it's all about keeping the cash and privileges flowing to supremacist Jews. It's nothing less than thuggery. Only through intimidation does such immorality persist. Witness the behavior that they engage in against free speech activists: arrest, beatings, job loss, harassment, stalking, on & on. This is not the behavior of those who possess the truth, this is not the behavior of honesty, it's the behavior of thieves.
The use of senile "survivors" gives away the scam. Their huge numbers contradict the very 'holocaust' storyline that they profit from.
As for the Armenian issue, which I don't buy, we simply have another case of supremacist Jews wanting everything to be about Jews.

'Jews: the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.'

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby Hektor » 5 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:36 pm)

Dutch beginner wrote:... Because they do that, and because no scientist dare to investigate alternatives, it is probably not possible anymore to get the truth. But that does not mean that the nazies do not killed a high amount of Jews, besides the Jews killed (also innocent Jews) bacause of the partizan war.

So I am still not convinced that Jews were not killed on a large scale. but I also must admit that I do not know what happened. May be the truth is waiting in Russian archives what realy happend? I hope that the leaders kept the truth for future generations. I am afraid they don't.

But back to the subject.

I am also convinced that, regardless the fact that everywhere on internet you can find so much scientific evidence, debunking the current holocaust version, I will not see in my life time that this will be spoken in the main stream media. If you dare to talk about it, with friends, they look to you if you talks about a conspirency theory. But If you tell them about scientific evidence, e.g. Germer Rudolf, they begin to doubt, but they change the subject.

It was a taboo, and it wil remain so, for a long time, I am afraid. And I think, that is not good.

Bear in mind that a lot of otherwise silly political conclusions are deducted from or rely on the present Holocaust narrative. To name just two that come to mind those would be i.e. the mass immigration of third-worlders into Europe and anything linked to Cultural Marxism.
So the "elites" can not simply let that go for a better founded, but less atrocious narrative, since the justification for their pet policies relies on argument by atrocity.

On the other hand I observe that Holocaust related arguments are used less then in the past. I'd expect them to use more of that in their agitation against PEGIDA in Germany for example. But they don't or use them very carefully.

You mention archives, did you know that they got millions of documents stored in arolsen: https://www.its-arolsen.org/en/homepage/index.html
But that no document does hint to any homicidal gassings?! Anything gas chamber related you find on their site will relate to post war publications.

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby diaz52 » 5 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:48 pm)

borjastick wrote:On BBC TV this morning there was a discussion programme live in the studio. The programme is called The Big Questions and today the Big Question was Is it time to lay the holocaust to rest?

The studio was full of survivors, rabbis (at least three) and various people with an agenda to push or those totally reliant on the holocaust money tube. Eg. Holocaust Education Trust and several other 'charities' whose very existence relies on the furthering of the holocaust myth.

In short they were all believers and some were quite angry about the whole event.

The presenter, Nicky Campbell, was fair and shoved the conversation around and did try to talk about denial, revisionism and other great suffering such as the Armenian Genocide, a subject I know little about. The jewish charity lady he asked about the Armenian Genocide wouldn't answer his questions, why? What is the issue with jews and the Armenian genocide? Were they involved or was it worse than their holocaust.

They didn't want to spread the pain at all, in other words they were defiant and very pushy in Jewish suffering being worse than any other.

At one point the subject of Israel came into play and the fat old Rabbi from Manchester got heated saying that 'Israel was created from the ashes of the Holocaust and as such there is nothing to apologise for'.

One female rabbi claimed the 'facts of the holocaust are held dear by us, they are not for discussion'. I was wondering what facts she thinks she has that prove the claims made for six million dead.


I'm amazed that they would include things such as denial, revisionism and other peoples' suffering into a discussion of the Big H, and on the BBC no less. That's surprising. I hope other viewers came away with the impression that these old Jews were 'very pushy in Jewish suffering being worse than any other.' Sounds like it was something of a PR debacle for these people, who are so accustomed to having their views go unquestioned and pushed hard down the gentiles' throats, without any protest or complaint allowed.

With regard to the Armenian genocide, I know the ADL fought hard against it being recognized as a genocide. A massacre and a crime against humanity, fine, but not a genocide. It seems to me to that they want to preserve the 'uniqueness' of the story of their attempted extermination as a people, as the story goes, by the Nazis. In other words, there have been many massacres and mass murders, but only we Jews have been targeted for extermination as a people. That is, only we have been the victims of an attempted genocide. To include another people into that category, that is, the Armenian Christians at the hands of the Muslim Turks, only distracts attention from the Jews and their story. You can't have two suns in the sky. And the Jews are not accustomed to sharing the stage with anyone else. They're not a people known for their generosity but rather their greed. Anyways that's how I've always interpreted the Jews' reluctance to call the Armenian genocide a genocide.

You mention a female rabbi. I didn't know there was such a thing. I supposed she must be from some reform offshoot of their religion.
-You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
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Re: Talking with believers

Postby Hektor » 5 years 3 months ago (Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:45 am)

Lohengrin wrote:....
Note please also the fate of the 602 in very good health deported men from the village of Putten, to labor camps in West Germany, of whom only 42 (7%) after no more than 7 months (!!) until the liberation returned alive! I think the same fate hitted your relative, who died in Rees, a German place only a few kilometers from the Dutch border.
...

I think they now have increased the Putten returnees on a figure of 52. This portrayal also reflects the common Holocaust mathematics. Deported - Returned = Dead. No one seems to be missing there. However I'd like to see how the established those people to be dead.

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby Hannover » 5 years 3 months ago (Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:31 am)

One female rabbi claimed the 'facts of the holocaust are held dear by us, they are not for discussion'.

Of course, the impossible storyline cannot withstand scrutiny. As is the case with any religion, rational & scientific analysis are to be avoided at all costs.
It reminds me of this gem:
These Holocaust deniers are very slick people. They justify everything they say with facts and figures.

- Steven Some, Chairman of the New Jersey Commission on Holocaust Education, Newark Star-Ledger, 23 Oct. 1996, p 15.

Hektor:
However I'd like to see how they established those people to be dead.

They didn't, you can bet the farm on that.
Just like everything else concerning the impossible '6M & gas chambers', all one has to do is make an unproven claim and that's it.
Imagine this sort of nonsense in any other situation.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby Hektor » 5 years 3 months ago (Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:22 am)

Hannover wrote:....
Hektor:
However I'd like to see how they established those people to be dead.

They didn't, you can bet the farm on that.
Just like everything else concerning the impossible '6M & gas chambers', all one has to do is make an unproven claim and that's it.
Imagine this sort of nonsense in any other situation.

If you can't establish that people are dead or alive, then they're missing. There was no obligation on Dutch returnees to register as "survivors" just as there wasn't for Jews. Since Putten was destroyed, people from there would most likely go settle elsewhere.

Putten was part of immediate post-war propaganda:
Image
The "Naschrift" reports only five returning "survivors". And uses the pejorative term "Moffen", imagine someone using "Niggers", if Blacks were accused of a crime.

Scanning Dutch articles, texts and documents, thanks to the Rabbit, I found quite some material on Holocaust-related stuff and the occupation of the Netherlands during WW2. Will have to process this with time on the forum.

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby Hektor » 1 year 8 months ago (Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:13 am)

Dutch beginner wrote:....
The only theme I will explain now is the high amount of Jews, who were imprisoned by the Germans. In Germany, more then 50% of the Jews flew before the war, but that was not the case in the Netherlands. According to the figures, 75% disappears during the war. The highest rate, after Czech republic. Probably because of the modernst registration systems of inhabitants, which was a help for the germans, and also because Seyss-Inquart, and mainly Hanns Rauter were very determine to finish their job.
....

That Jews were deported is not in dispute.
Hanns Rauter disputes any knowledge about the deportees being killed.
At present there are 52.000 official Jews living in the Netherlands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_po ... by_country

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 year 2 months ago (Mon May 27, 2019 1:04 pm)

Hannover wrote:As for the Armenian issue, which I don't buy, we simply have another case of supremacist Jews wanting everything to be about Jews.


Bear in mind that it was the Jewish Young Turks who killed the Armenians in the genocide. No Jews, no Armenian genocide.

Jews are genocidal maniacs, who always attempt to blame others for their own despicable actions. Hence, they whine about gentile whites trying to exterminate them, when in reality, they are trying to exterminate gentile whites!
If your beliefs cannot stand up to your own sincere scrutiny and skeptical evaluation, they are not worth having.

https://freespeechmonika.wordpress.com/ ... t-details/

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby Hannover » 1 year 2 months ago (Mon May 27, 2019 4:11 pm)

JLAD Prove Me Wrong wrote:
Hannover wrote:As for the Armenian issue, which I don't buy, we simply have another case of supremacist Jews wanting everything to be about Jews.


Bear in mind that it was the Jewish Young Turks who killed the Armenians in the genocide. No Jews, no Armenian genocide.

Jews are genocidal maniacs, who always attempt to blame others for their own despicable actions. Hence, they whine about gentile whites trying to exterminate them, when in reality, they are trying to exterminate gentile whites!

True enough, 'projection' is the Jew / communist game.

Nonetheless, you provided no proof for the alleged "Armenian genocide".

All investigative methods that have been applied in the demolition of the 'holocaust' must also be applied to the alleged "Armenian genocide".

- Hannover

No alleged human remains of millions in allegedly known locations to see, no 'holocaust'.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 year 2 months ago (Mon May 27, 2019 5:10 pm)

Hannover wrote:All investigative methods that have been applied in the demolition of the 'holocaust' must also be applied to the alleged "Armenian genocide".


It's quite easy to realize why Jews faked their own genocide. They needed a country, and be the eternal victim.

I see no reason to fake a genocide of Armenian Christians. Jews have persecuted and killed Christians for centuries, and the Armenian genocide is an example of this. Almost all Armenians are Christians.

Mr. Hannover, what do you think the goal of faking a genocide of Armenians is?
If your beliefs cannot stand up to your own sincere scrutiny and skeptical evaluation, they are not worth having.

https://freespeechmonika.wordpress.com/ ... t-details/

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby Breker » 1 year 2 months ago (Mon May 27, 2019 11:52 pm)

JLAD Prove Me Wrong wrote:
Hannover wrote:All investigative methods that have been applied in the demolition of the 'holocaust' must also be applied to the alleged "Armenian genocide".


It's quite easy to realize why Jews faked their own genocide. They needed a country, and be the eternal victim.

I see no reason to fake a genocide of Armenian Christians. Jews have persecuted and killed Christians for centuries, and the Armenian genocide is an example of this. Almost all Armenians are Christians.

Mr. Hannover, what do you think the goal of faking a genocide of Armenians is?

Sir, as Mr. Hannover has said; "Nonetheless, you provided no proof for the alleged "Armenian genocide".
So why do you, as they say around here, "dodge" providing proof for the alleged "Armenian genocide", that you obviously think is reality?
You also can't be serious when you ask why most Armenians would get behind such victim status.
Most of those reasons would be the same as why Jews cling desperately to their "Holocaust" bullshit, or why anyone in general loves being thought of as victims, "survivors", etc. They all benefit from a myriad of actions, laws, & special treatment. Is understanding that fact beyond you?
However, a lie is a lie. I do not know about you, Sir, but some people despise being lied to. For them truth is what matters, any time, all the time.
And yes, we are off topic.
Thank you, B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby Hannover » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue May 28, 2019 10:10 am)

Indeed, I'm surprised that the bright JLAD did not think through what he said.

There can be no sacred cows when it comes to real history.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Talking with believers

Postby JLAD Prove Me Wrong » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue May 28, 2019 11:57 am)

If we're being honest, most, if not all people here are former Holocaust believers. Somehow or another, that spell has been broken.

Likewise, everyone here is most likely either a believer in the Armenian genocide, or a former believer in the Armenian genocide.

I am curious as to what 'broke the spell' for Hannover and Breker in regard to the Armenian genocide, as in, why they no longer believe in it.

A big reason that I believe it happened is because the Jewish run ADL tried to block the U.S from recognizing it as a genocide. Clearly they did not want members of their tribe to be guilty of genocide.

IF it was a myth, and Jews were not responsible for it, I can't imagine why 'honest Abe' would not want it to be recognized as a genocide. Clearly he does not want any criticism of Jews to exist, which is protected by the First Amendment, which the ADL would love nothing more than to hamstring.
If your beliefs cannot stand up to your own sincere scrutiny and skeptical evaluation, they are not worth having.

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