Zyklon B help!

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Zimyix
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Zyklon B help!

Postby Zimyix » 3 years 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:00 pm)

Hi Guys!

Still working on my paper! It has turned into a argumentative paper arguing for the position of the Open-debate. Plus, I am trying to outline the basic revisionist arguments and show that "hey, even if we (Other historians) don't like it, this needs to actually be discussed." So far, so good. I even spoke with my priest (my boss & friend) and he is sympathetic to my search.

So on to a specific question. The issue of "dropping the pellets" down a chimney always seemed silly to me. Especially considering there was an entire machine used for delousing to ensure efficient gas release (Why not use the machine for the "homicidal gas chambers as well?) I wanted to simply find a primary source detailing the ways in which the gas is used. I feel that I have read that the pellets will not start to diffuse gas until it reaches 90F. I came across this : http://codoh.com/library/document/875/ and found
In using Zyklon-B it is necessary only knock holes in the cans and sprinkle out the contents. The empty cans are thrown away.
& this
The opening of many small cans of Zyklon-B in a closed space is attended with danger from absorption through the clothing, especially if fumigators are perspiring. In using liquid gas the operator need not be in intimate exposure to the applied gas.


This sounds awfully like all that was necessary was to poke holes in a can and sprinkle contents. Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Zim

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Re: Zyklon B help!

Postby EtienneSC » 3 years 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:23 pm)

The Rudolf Report is the fullest revisionist discussion of cyanide chemistry, as far as I know. It is available online here:
http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/
(esp. sections 6 & 7).

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Re: Zyklon B help!

Postby Hieldner » 3 years 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:00 pm)

Zimyix wrote:So on to a specific question. The issue of "dropping the pellets" down a chimney always seemed silly to me. Especially considering there was an entire machine used for delousing to ensure efficient gas release (Why not use the machine for the "homicidal gas chambers as well?)

This counter argument is valid in almost every case: you’d have to assume the Germans behaved improbably silly.
Zimyix wrote:I wanted to simply find a primary source detailing the ways in which the gas is used.

The use of Zyklon B in general is addressed in chapter 5 of The Rudolf Report. Most of the primary sources referenced there are in German, though. http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/5.html#5.2.2.
Zimyix wrote:I feel that I have read that the pellets will not start to diffuse gas until it reaches 90F [≈ 27 °C].

This is a (common?) misconception. 27 °C is the boiling point of hydrogen cyanide. The substance also evaporates below this point, albeit slower. In chapter 2.7.2. of The Real Case for Auschwitz, Carlo Mattogno explains it quite well:
[Pressac] affirms, as we have seen, that “‘preheating’ makes sense only for a gas chamber using Zyklon B, where the temperature has to be raised to 27°C for the hydrocyanic acid to evaporate.” Pressac confuses evaporation with boiling, though. The temperature he cites is in fact the boiling point of hydrogen cyanide, i.e. the temperature at which its vapor pressure is equal to earth’s atmospheric pressure at sea level. Taking water as an example makes this easier to understand. Water boils at 100°C at sea level, but it evaporates also at much lower temperatures. In the same way hydrogen cyanide can even evaporate at temperatures below 0°C, its melting point being –13°C, i.e. it is a liquid between this temperature and its boiling point.
The experience obtained in Germany in connection with the disinfestation of military barracks performed on a large scale in 1940 and 1941 at temperatures between minus 4 and plus 8°C showed in fact that “in all cases, the essential phase of the gas release is complete after one or, at the most, two hours” (Peters/Rasch, p. 136). No doubt, a temperature of 27°C or higher would have sped up the evaporation of the hydrogen cyanide, but would this have necessitated the installation of a heating device? …


Zimyix wrote:This sounds awfully like all that was necessary was to poke holes in a can and sprinkle contents.
Yes.
Zimyix wrote:Am I missing something?
No.
»[Holocaust soap] odor, if captured and retained… would preserve the core of an individual soul… The undesirable smell of the extract spoke of the spectral Derridian trace… that continued to remind its consumers of their own bio-ontology.«—B. Shallcross

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Re: Zyklon B help!

Postby hermod » 3 years 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:08 pm)

Perhaps document NI-9912 - Guidelines for the use of prussic acid (Zyklon) for exterminating vermin (disinfestation) (Richtlinien für die Anwendung von Blausäure (Zyklon) zur Ungeziefervertilgung (Entwesung)) - could help...

Image
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8V_62Zh310A/ ... ge-001.jpg

Image
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p8RVsfY98-E/ ... ge-002.jpg

English translation of Nuremberg document NI-9912: http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.be/1977 ... nt-ni.html
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Zyklon B help!

Postby Hannover » 3 years 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:32 pm)

Zim said:
This sounds awfully like all that was necessary was to poke holes in a can and sprinkle contents. Am I missing something?

Even more silly was the alleged use of a pesticide, Zyklon-B, in the first place.
The Germans had huge stocks of very efficient, low amounts required, Sarin & Tabun nerve gases they could have used had they actually wanted to exterminate people.
The entire Zyklon-B issue is truly laughable.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth."
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Zyklon B help!

Postby Dresden » 3 years 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:46 pm)

Zim:

As suggested by Hannover, here is a good short article on the different poison gasses that the Germans had at the time and the absurdity of using a slow acting pesticide:

http://codoh.com/library/document/976/
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Zyklon B help!

Postby Hannover » 3 years 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:49 pm)

Zim said:
This sounds awfully like all that was necessary was to poke holes in a can and sprinkle contents. Am I missing something?

See previous post below,

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

Below I have posted what the 'holocaust' storyline claims about the alleged gassings at Auschwitz/Birkenau.
I have commented as the story moves along, in essence the claims are simply impossible.

Note that I have also added this model of what the inside of one of the 'gas chambers' is claimed to have looked like at end of an alleged gassing (up to 2000 per batch), an analysis of this model follows my text below.

Image

The two main 'gas chambers at Auschwitz / Birkenau were exactly the same, supposedly in Kremas II & III. So let's play along with the storyline. Up to 2000 Jews were supposedly gassed until dead, then they were supposedly taken via an elevator to the crematorium directly above.

Fact: as seen in the plans, this elevator is hand drawn, and is only 4 ft X 9 ft. How in the world could 2000 Jews have been loaded onto a 4 ft x 9 ft. hand drawn elevator in just a few minutes? Remember, the storyline says that the gassings and resultant cremations were non-stop for much of the period in question.

We supposedly have another batch of 2000 Jews waiting outside, supposedly being tricked into thinking they were about to receive showers. It would have been impossible to disentangle all the supposedly dead Jews and load 2000 of them onto to this postage stamp of an elevator, hoist them by hand up to the crematory 'ovens' in just minutes.
And this repeated process meant that the crematory ovens above would not have been capable of cremating them in the time alleged, which meant a build-up, a backlog occurred.
The storyline even states that the backlog of the to-be-cremated-gassed-Jews required stacking them outside. Once again, the alleged 2000 Jews were outside in full view of this laughable backlog claim, but supposedly they still thought they were getting 'showers'. Of course, timely aerial reconnaissance photos show nothing of the kind.

Furthermore, while the Jews were waiting outside, the storyline says that a SS man with a gas mask climbed upon the roof of the Kremas (only maybe 18 inches, or close to it, above the ground, Kremas II & III were largely underground) and dropped Zyklon-B granules into a container and lowered it down into the 'holes' in the roof, into the morgues which were supposedly converted into a gas chamber. The waiting 2000 Jews would have a clear view of the man on the roof's activity, yet these 2000 Jews were supposedly not concerned and still thought they were going to get innocent showers. The storyline is utterly ridiculous.

We're not done.

The Zyklon-B pesticide granules took/take hours to complete the outgassing of their cyanide load. The storyline says that this same SS man on the roof, supposedly wearing a highly visible gas mask, withdrew the container up from the 'gas chambers' in just minutes. Remember, the Zyklon-B pesticide granules were allegedly dumped and lowered into the 'gas chambers'. And since we know that the Zyklon-B pesticide would have taken hours to finish releasing it's cyanide load we have a situation where anyone in the entire area would have been vulnerable to gassing.
Yes, the storyline also says that there were vents which were used to remove the gas, but then we are still in a situation where the entire area is vulnerable to cyanide. Not to mention that this certainly would have been noticed by the alleged waiting 2000 Jews. And where does this SS man in a gas mask put the outgassing Zyklon-B pesticide granules which he has supposedly withdrawn, which would be releasing cyanide for hours?

The entire, bizarre story is unsustainable with even the slightest scrutiny. It's no wonder why Jewish supremacists trot out senile, lying 'survivors' (who wouldn't have even survived if the tall tales were true) for emotional impact. No wonder that there are Thought Crime laws against examining this absurd process. 'House of cards' is an understatement.

As for it being easy to ventilate, move corpses, clean, bring in the next batch, and generally achieve what is alleged I also suggest:
'ONE PICTURE = 1000 WORDS'
viewtopic.php?t=2651

ASMarques' initial post in that thread:
"*** THE GREAT GAS CHAMBER TRAFFIC JAM ***

This would be the one picture I would choose for a crash-course in Holocaust awareness for the intelligent young, lest they forget. Much better than collecting millions of buttons, soda tabs etc.

Image

This is the scale model of Krema II in the Auschwitz Museum, apparently placed behind a glass protection in order to prevent the small dolls being stolen by visitors.

Key to the image:

0 - Reflection of the window on the opposite side of the room.

1 - Underground gallery where many hundreds of victims at a time got undressed for the fake showers in room number 2. According to some Holocaust scholars, this gallery is also supposed to have had fake showers installed in it, just to confuse the undressing victims.

2 - Underground gas chamber, called simply "morgue" or "mortuary cellar" in all German documents and blueprints, in order to fool the future generations of scholars looking for the mysteriously vanished Jewish race. This is where many hundreds of victims were gassed at a time, in a round-the-clock mass murder industrial process by Zyklon B, the same product used to preserve human lives by killing lice (unless the witnesses are lying or very, very confused).

3 - Small elevator bringing daily many thousands of gassed corpses from the underground chamber to the crematories at ground level. Known to the fun-loving SS as "The Little Elevator that Could".

4 - Crematory ovens where many thousands of corpses a day were instantly vaporized, without even having to wait for some heat to dissipate before each door opening, contrary to the ovens in your run-of-the-mill crematory. Alas, the technology of the ovens was one of the best kept secrets in the Reich (unless they were ordinary ovens operated by miracle) and no one has been able to duplicate it.

5 - The famous chimneys, producing lots of smoke, contrary to the chimneys on your run-of-the-mill crematory that produce none. This is attributed to the twisted minds of the German guards who attempted to hide their crimes from the curious in the neighbourhood by using dense curtains of artificial smoke.

Now that you know which room is which, don't let anyone distract your gaze away from the image. Picture the gold-mining brigades, struggling through the corpse-scape, trying not to absorb any cyanide residues trapped among the still palpitating bodies, in order to perform their difficult tasks, such as inspecting body orifices, pulling teeth off, smoking cigarettes and eating sandwiches (according to the Höss testimony).

Then comes the most important part. Wait for a few seconds, take a deep breath, and picture the enormous round-the-clock traffic jam at point number 3, during the process of emptying the gas chamber of bodies, through the small elevator room, with or without (as you prefer) the folks next door waiting, soap in hand, for their shower.

Finally, ask your teacher to point the place, any place, where all those typhus dead were deposited while the live folks were being gassed in the gas chamber the Germans called "a morgue".

If you get a satisfactory answer, please let me know."
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Zyklon B help!

Postby hermod » 3 years 2 weeks ago (Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:44 pm)

Steve F wrote:Zim:

As suggested by Hannover, here is a good short article on the different poison gasses that the Germans had at the time and the absurdity of using a slow acting pesticide:

http://codoh.com/library/document/976/


Not to mention the fact that the Germans had almost limitless quantities of unused & wasted carbon monoxide (a very lethal byproduct of gasification for the industrial production of synthetic fuel) available at Auschwitz...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Zyklon B help!

Postby Horhug » 3 years 2 weeks ago (Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:33 am)

Zimyix wrote:
Hi Guys!

Still working on my paper! It has turned into a argumentative paper arguing for the position of the Open-debate. Plus, I am trying to outline the basic revisionist arguments and show that "hey, even if we (Other historians) don't like it, this needs to actually be discussed." So far, so good. I even spoke with my priest (my boss & friend) and he is sympathetic to my search.

So on to a specific question. The issue of "dropping the pellets" down a chimney always seemed silly to me. Especially considering there was an entire machine used for delousing to ensure efficient gas release (Why not use the machine for the "homicidal gas chambers as well?) I wanted to simply find a primary source detailing the ways in which the gas is used. I feel that I have read that the pellets will not start to diffuse gas until it reaches 90F. I came across this : http://codoh.com/library/document/875/ and found


In using Zyklon-B it is necessary only knock holes in the cans and sprinkle out the contents. The empty cans are thrown away.



& this


The opening of many small cans of Zyklon-B in a closed space is attended with danger from absorption through the clothing, especially if fumigators are perspiring. In using liquid gas the operator need not be in intimate exposure to the applied gas.



This sounds awfully like all that was necessary was to poke holes in a can and sprinkle contents. Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Zim



It sounds awfully like you are missing the context of the text you have quoted because you omitted to include the following :


The time of exposure is prescribed as two hours for an empty vessel and four hours for a vessel with cargo aboard. The longer time allows for more complete penetration. It must be understood that all holds or compartments are tightly sealed during fumigation.



This source document : U.S. Public Health Reports, Vol. 46, No. 27, July 3, 1931

is titled : "Some Aspects of Ship Fumigation"

So you are attempting to compare the use of Zyklon B in the fumigaton of the "tightly sealed" holds and compartments of ships, with it's alleged use in alleged homicidal gas chambers, where it is alleged that "death followed" anywhere between 2 and 30 minutes after deployment.

You have also omitted to quote the stated requirement for "spreading [ the Zyklon B ] in a thin layer"


The fumigator opens the cans by knocking holes in each end with a special hammer and sprinkling the contents on the floor of the hold or spreading in a thin layer on canvas or paper on the floor of a compartment.



By quoting this without explaining it's context :


In using Zyklon-B it is necessary only knock holes in the cans and sprinkle out the contents. The empty cans are thrown away.



from the section titled : Comparative Merits

You are also omitting to inform the reader that the quote is one of several statements affording a simple comparison between the use of liquid HCN and Zyklon B pellets impregnated with HCN from which the HCN has to be liberated.

Other comparitive points are cost, efficacy, preparation & method of use, apparatus required, safety requirements etc.

This is of course the entire point of the document yoiu have quoted - a comparison of the merits of each of the available HCN ship fumigation products and processes, describing how the latest methods, liquid HCN and Zyklon-B are preferred to the older methods of on site HCN generation.

Quite how the alleged murderous Zyklon-B allegedly used in the alleged homicidal gas chambers could be deployed in a "thin layer" by dropping the pellets through alleged holes in a ceiling is a mystery.



.


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