Hektor wrote: Balsamo wrote:
Let's assume that location and time frame are right (Somewhere near Krema V before 1945). What on the photo indicates that this woman, who is held by several men in civilian clothing, is about to be gassed? We aren't jumping to conclusions (like conspiracy theorists like to do) here, are we?
Guess people don't "dodge" the picture, they just ignore it, as it poses no challenge at all.
And who says EricHunt2017 is the real Eric Hunt, who used to have an account here under exactly that name?
That is the point: If you accept/assume that "location and time frame" are right, then you should NOT ignore it. On the contrary, it would be your duty to address what the picture shows: What were those Jews in civilian cloths doing there ?
You do realize that what is shown on the picture has some consequences, do you?
Nope, no obligation to do so, unless I am the one that tries to prove something with that one.
But lets assume that this picture was taken near Krema IV during the time the Germans operated the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp. Let's also assume Krema V is in operation. I got no idea whether the gentlemen holding the lady are Jews, nor do I know whether the lady is exactly that.
Obviously it's an older women she may have grown up children. So how's this one for the most plausible scenario. Her son did recently die of typhus and his corpse was brought to the Krema for cremation. She wanted to see her son again, but it's a restricted area (for obvious reasons). So the men are holding her back.
You need to be a really fanatical believer in the Holocaust to believe those man were about to throw her into a homicidal gas chamber or the oven. I chose the rational approach over the one of a moron on a witch-hunt.
Panda wrote:The Eric Hunt profile cannot be accessed? Was it removed, or did he delete it? Is there another Eric Hunt profile on CODOH? Is there any reason to believe this is the same Eric Hunt? Does anyone know him personally? Will the real Eric Hunt please stand up...
Eric Hunt had an old account here and I PM'd him several times on that one. For some strange reason the "new Eric Hunt" didn't use that one and posted under that new other account.
I was not asking about guessing and / or funny interpretations, but how a "Revisionist" who has a little scientific ambition as historian is supposed to deal with such a picture. So let's forget the gas chambers for now.
- The first observation is that the presence of those people in this area of the camp does not fit - and even contradicts - the standard procedures of admission of inmates within the camp.
Referring by memory of the description of the famous video of David Cole... Prisoners were ripped off their clothes (most probably infected), processed through the Sauna, their hair shaved, and given a supposedly clean striped uniform, and then after a quarantine, finally counted and assigned to a Barrack.
If one remembers that one of the thesis of revisionists authors is that those facilities were "lives savings" devices, the German being obsessed with lice, typhus and hygiene, this infringement of the standard procedure should be addressed.
The Next question is what those three men doing there?
According to Faurisson, there were no selection but a separation between men (of all age) and women and children (of all age) on the platform.
If Faurisson is right there should not be any man with this lady, as he pretends that selections are being made AFTER the separation of sex, within the two groups. Considering where the picture has been taken, not only the separation but also the selection among the respective groups is supposed to be done.
So Faurisson funny opinion on the picture just contradicts his own theses on how things were going at Birkenau.
Eric Hunt, at least, realize that...the old man is probably too old.
But before I continue, let’s make some corrections of what has been written:
“Too bad New Eric Hunt doesn't know that Sonderkommando Jews were not dressed as gangsters of the 1930's in a Hollywood movie because Old Eric Hunt knew very well that they were dressed in the striped uniform of prisoners.”
Actually, Eric is better informed than you as the Sonderkommando working outside the Crematorium could wear civilian clothes taken from the Canada ( as those who worked there, by the way).
If by dressed like gangsters you mean “flashy and expensive clothings” that do not fit the bearer, I kind of agree…It just proves that those expensive clothes were probably stolen. Hence that those “gangsters” were indeed Sonderkommando (probably of high rank). If they had been common inmates they would indeed have worn a stripped dress.
Of course, maybe those men were also victims of the selection, but then Professor Faurisson is wrong even more so. The Pick is yours.
“Could someone check that the English translation is basically correct?”
Yes it is, but it is just a supposition expressed. It is wrong, as everyone can see that nothing is happening at the rear.
But then come more local suppositions:
“My opinion is that this is a picture of a woman who got caught stealing.”
“And I don't see the soldiers in the background bearing arms. Surely if this woman was being forced into the gas chamber complex she would be part of a larger group, and thus they would have armed guards behind them ensuring a swift entry to the facility. This is well shown and described in witness statements and in such Hollywood type films of the subject.”
It is a Nazi that is taking the photo, and probably the squad on duty are just next to him or behind him. The guys on the background seem indeed “off-duty” as seems to be Krema IV .
Obviously, it is Krema V that is on duty that day or at that moment.
It is impossible to say if the “Aktion” had already started. One possibility is that she lost her nerves and wanted just to leave the group she was with to search for her husband or son whatever. But that is not what is important, anyway.
“That is that this picture is fake, a picture taken after the war and after the Russians had liberated the place and were in the throes of fabricating the evidence.”
HUM…It is impossible as by the time liberated Birkenau, there were no Krema intact. Krema IV stands for everyone to see in the background.
“She isn't going to be gassed nor shot but rather transferred to another location (a camp or ghetto further east), and she wants to know why she can't stay with her younger & fitter relatives and friends selected for labor in Auschwitz but the only reply she could get is "Stop asking questions, Grandma. Just go with those who have been selected for immediate transfer like you."
Since when does the selection took place at the door of a Krema? This is certainly not what Faurisson is saying.
Considering where the action took place, it would be the stupidest thing to do as it would supposed to go back all the way back to where the train would have been waiting…a couple of miles away. And of course, the old lady fits with all the criteria of someone who would be selected, transferred after having seen her group entering the Krema IV in this hypothesis…Or sorry...those relatives selected for work. who entered the camp and the Sauna..
then those nice gentlemen decided to make Grand ma visit the Krema V before heading back to the Train...
A big lol for that one.
“The other explanation of course, is that the woman isnt going to be gassed, just punished for having done some offense (not working hard enough, not showing up to roll call, disobedience etc.), which is the position that should make the most sense even to non-revisionists, given that there is virtually NO commotion at all in the background, the exact opposite of the otherwise mass activity that the mainstream calls homicidal gassing.”
Well at least you have noticed your mate’s incoherence.
But there is one in yours as well.
This lady is clearly not a selected inmate, so she could not have been affected to any kind of work YET, nor even be concerned by Roll calls. But you are right, there are no commotion in the background, which shows that Krema IV was not on duty, and that nothing could have happened there to justify her being brought back close to the entry of Krema V.
What is going on is behind the photographer.
“Seriously, how can we be sure these are sonderkommandos?”
Because, according to Faurisson, there should be no men with women at this stage. Actually, no one should be in civilian clothes in this part of the camp according to him. But that of course he does not explain what those civilians are doing there, and he gives no real explanation of what is on the picture. At least he refrained from saying they were gather there for a pick nick in the wood.
This is why his fellow “revisionists” like you all should assume the task.
“It's fake. The 'gangsters roughing up the gal' was superimposed over the background. There are countless other examples is this process.”
I agree with you that the picture of the lady being hanged is an obvious fake – was it really used by the Soviets? – but the picture you are accusing to be a fake looks much more like the second one of you example. Of course, some elements to prove your assertion would be nice, but also why would any Soviet fakers introduce such a fake in an Album made by a Nazi?
Where is the crime that it is supposed to denounce? Do the three men looks German to you? What would be the point to fake this one?
Don’t you think that the Soviets would have been more explicit if they wanted to fake a picture that could be used to prove the gassing?
My stance on the Hunt case is that he really tried hard – the best he could – to do what most of you have never done, that is giving some substance to an alternative “narrative”. Last time I heard about him, he was trying hard to find where those Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto have been “sent”, transited through Treblinka.
Obviously he could not. And has the courage to admit that he could not.
Looking at all those nonsenses that have been written about this only picture, it is pretty obvious that no one here is even trying to even think to an alternative narrative.
So maybe it would be a good idea to call for help to some real “revisionists” still trying to do some research to explain what those people were actually doing in front of the entry of Krema V, and how to explain it seriously within a coherent narrative of how Birkenau worked. Especially, an obviously “not selected” old Jew, miles away from the woman camp, clearly not disinfected and given new clothes, and clearly led by four Jews to regain the group that is probably behind the photographer.
Why would the Nazis gather “NOT selected” people right in front of what you call a “morgue” or a “live saving device to fight Typhus” (well that sounds like former Eric), as well as to burn the corpses of the victims of “diseases” of the camp. Another photo shows a substantial group of women and children in the same “little wood”. Does that make any sense to you?
So for the sake of the debate – the lady nor the other women and children are being sent to the gas chambers, as the picture only shows them close to Krema V, the grand ma being led to it – what happened to them next? Where were they led to?
I am open to your suggestion.