WANTED: Real witnesses to gas chambers

[gonzo]

{{{Hello all, I am gonzo...I have spent two years at Pravda English forums..(still there)...always looking to expand my intersts in revisionism...I do not believe genocidal gas chambers existed...I believe it to be a wicked rumor that spread amongst the camps and beyond. My family consists of refugees and orphans from east Prussia. My family emigrated to Canada. I was born in 1963. I am an evangelical Christian}}}. .
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aside from the standard debate;

After 1985, have any former German staff ever laid claim there either were or there were not genocidal gas chambers?

Since perestroika and the downfall of the Soviet Union..surely someone could step forward.

I have not heard of a single case. pass on a link if you know? Has David

Irving ever found any one??

With Holocaust revisionism forcing damage control amongst the Holocaust Industry etc....you would think they ( with their vast fortune) could get statements from former staff who would "repent their sins" by saying, "YES I SAW Jews being gassed to death and dieing with my own eyes".

wouldnt this be a good idea?. German people are a logical people..why wouldnt someone step forward???Surely they were not all killed?

By the same token, although more difficult, Holocaust revisionists may be able to do the same thing.

I fear that in 15-20 years all true living history of this will be dead. Someone out there knows...where are they? who are they?

ie;
in my book "Inside The Concentration camps by Euegene Aroneanu, it says on page 118, """Distinguished visitors from Berlin attended the opening of the first crematory in March 1943. On the "program" was the gassing and burning of 8,000 Jews from Krakow. The visitors-officers and civilians alike-were extremely satisfied with the results , and the window that had been specially installed in the door of the Gas chamber was constantly in use. the visitors were full of praise for this latest novelty"

sounds like no one was trying to hide the fact of the gassings??? sounds like they are describing an exhibit at the worlds fair

BTW...This book is wild with holocaust claims and it has a 1996 copyright ..It was translated then by Thomas Whissen.

Aroneanu writes that there are up to 8,000,000 victims in Auschwitz alone.....

[Bosch]

Yes there were Gas chambers, the institute of historic review had a reward of £50,000 or $`s ? to the first person that proved the existance of gas chambers. Mel Melsteine proved it, but they would not pay so Mel sued and he was awarded an extra 40thousand as damages. He also had a letter of apology.

[Hannover]

Mermelstein proved nothing, the judge took 'judicial notice'; meaning the judge prevented a weighing of the evidence against the alleged 'gas chambers' and forced unsubstantiated propaganda upon the court. No proof came forward in that case to support the alleged gas chambers and evidence against the 'gas chambers' was censored by the judge.

Ultimately the case was dumped by the Los Angeles Superior Court and then by the California Court of Appeal.
see:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p25_Okeefe.html
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n1p-7_Mermelstein.html

Rather like the sham trials of Nuremberg, where no forensic study was ever presented to prove bizarre allegations of cyanide and diesel gas chambers.
However, the communist Soviets did present a laughable, detailed study on 'steam chambers'.
Perhaps Bosch would care to present evidence for these alleged 'gas chambers'.

- Hannover

[disillusioned]

Mel is nothing short of an absolute embarrasment for the holocaust believers. Surely you know what actually happened with him? What other explanation could there be for your post.

Thanks Hannover, for the informative links. And to think these events happened so recently, how could they be forgotten? The outcome of that whole ordeal can not be disputed. Mel is the worst kind of liar.

disillusioned

[David]

Have any former Nazis who were in charge of (or low SS guards who would have known or seen) the alleged extermination camps come forward and denied the possibility of gassings?

Dave

[Sailor]

Have any former Nazis who were in charge of (or low SS guards who would have known or seen) the alleged extermination camps come forward and denied the possibility of gassings?

Dave

In free Germany it is against the law to deny the existence of homicidal gas chambers of the Holocaust myth and can be punished with up to five years in jail.
In Austria this can be up to 20 years, I believe.

Who wants to deny anything under these conditions?

fge

[David]

Sailor,
I'm sure there are some who fled Germany and Austria. Also, old guys on their death beds wouldn't care too much about prison sentences, especially if it would help their Fatherland, as well as clear their consciences after keeping it in for so long. So I don't buy your argument.

[Hannover]

David asks the wrong question. The question should be; 'what former German military members have confessed to gassing Jews?' AND most important, what specifically did they say?
Can David start a separate thread for each of those (if any) he finds compelling? Remember, we want to know exactly what they supposedly said.

Specifics only, David. We're waiting.

This is where it gets good.

- Hannover

[Fugazi]

The question of why not many former SS-men have come forward to deny the gas chamber story isn't a hard one to answer. As Sailor pointed out, anyone in Germany troubling to do so can expect a fat jail term, and the friendly guys in charge of the Bundesrepublik have shown that even an ex-guard "on his deathbed" can reasonably expect to die waiting for his court appearance.

As to those no longer in Germany, the cases of Demjanyuk and Zundel spring to mind - personally, if I was an ex-camp guard now living peacably outside Germany, I'd be damned if I wanted to draw attention to myself. In the case of Eichmann, the Israelis were happy to go so far as to kidnap him so they could stand him in front of a show trial and kill him - being outside Germany is definitely no guarantee of safety.

That said, one case does spring to mind - the Auschwitz commandant Baer, who was in charge after Hoess. He refused to budge on his claim that the gas chamber story was rubbish, and his death in jail before the '64 Auschwitz trial presumably came as a great relief to the prosecutors. Officially he died of a heart attack, but the convenience of his death for the holocaust enthusiasts has always struck revisionists as suspicious (not that I'd want to make too much of that, a lot of men that age have heart attacks after all).

The case of Baer and the '64 Frankfurt trial in general annoys the hell out of me, because it basically put the lid on any chance of hearing from ex-staff of Auschwitz exactly what went on there. No attempt by authorities to get the real truth from Baer, and every ex-guard since that time has a clear example of what he can expect if he wants to open his mouth.

Fugazi

[David]

No, Hannover, I think I am asking the right question here. The reason why is because SS camp guards who admit to gassings will just be written off as accepting bribes to admit. But former camp guards who say it's all a lie because they were there and saw the gas chambers used for delousing only, wouldn't easily be written off.

Threats of law suits or imprisonment is nothing to an old man who only has couple years to go, and who has the chance to speak out before he dies.

I personally think it's very odd we haven't heard more denials from old former camp guards. I think it's a very big hole in the Revisionist case. In any event thanks to the above poster who mentioned one guy in 1964.

D

[Hannover]

David:
It appears you lack confidence in posting any of the alleged specifics of what some of these SS men supposedly said. If you feel your case is strong then you should have no reason to hesitate. Come on, let's read what they allegedly said. Afterall, this is "the most documented event in history". Right?

Here's your chance, take your best shot.

- Hannover

[ClaudiaRothenbach]

Sailor,
I'm sure there are some who fled Germany and Austria. Also, old guys on their death beds wouldn't care too much about prison sentences, especially if it would help their Fatherland, as well as clear their consciences after keeping it in for so long. So I don't buy your argument.

Richard Baer

He was the last camp commander of Auschwitz and was accused for murder in 1960 (Auschwitz process Frankfurt). He disclaimed the existence of "gas chambers" for two years. One week before the start of the trial he died although he was healthy. The prosecutor, Fritz Bauer (jew btw), let them cremate the dead body immediately before autopsy

(Source: Der Auschwitz-Mythos by Wilhelm Staeglich)

I suppose that the camp commander should have been the best informed person. It would have been quite embarrassing for the court (and a lot of other people) if Bear would have given evidence (cui bono).

[J William]

Threats of law suits or imprisonment is nothing to an old man who only has couple years to go, and who has the chance to speak out before he dies.

I personally think it's very odd we haven't heard more denials from old former camp guards. I think it's a very big hole in the Revisionist case. In any event thanks to the above poster who mentioned one guy in 1964.

D

I don't know if David speaks as an "old man" but this "old man" fears the certain consequences of even questioning the homicidal gas chambers(HGCs). While it would not bother me in a personal sense it certainly would affect my estate and have effects on my children. Paranoria you say? Check the record and see what the fate of an open revisionist is. If we had the freedom we so loudly tout I would not have this fear. I don't know what the truth of the homicidal gas chambers is but I highly resent being afraid to openly discuss the merits of the , at this point, legend of HGCs. So much for my freedoms.

[Hyman]

I personally think it's very odd we haven't heard more denials from old former camp guards. I think it's a very big hole in the Revisionist case. D

If David were to research the matter further, he might find that the real big hole is in finding Germans - or non-Jews who worked for them - with any first-hand knowledge of homicidal gas chambers. From my reading of this subject, I would bet that those Germans still alive who speak of first hand knowledge (not just by rumor or hearsay) of gas chambers can be counted on the fingers of one hand. When defending against charges of libel by David Irving, Deborah Lipstadt and her million dollar defense team were able to come up with only five purported eyewitnesses to gas chambers at Auschwitz - and the credibilty of those five took a serious pounding from Irving.

But it should be up to those who believe in the standard history to put forward the eyewitnesses they find as credible and we can see if their testimony will hold up to scrutiny.

[David]

Hyman, the only problem is, I do believe many witnesses lie about homicidal gas chambers. I watched that movie this forum provided a link to, and yes I think some former SS camp guards lie. So, yes Hannover, I do not have faith in their testimony.

HOWEVER

If we had just one...just one former camp guard come forward...I would love to evaluate his testimony. Many stories have 2 sides right? Out of all the former camp guards, I'm sure there's at least a couple with enough vinegar, stubborness, and courage (if it is true).

I WILL BE VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE FIRST PERSON THAT GIVES ME A LEGITIMATE FACTUAL REPORT OF A FORMER NAZI CAMP GUARD AT ONE OF THE SUPPOSSED EXTERMINATION CAMPS WHO DENIES HOMICIDAL GASSINGS BECAUSE HE WORKED NEAR THE CHAMBERS AND WOULD KNOW. (please not Baer or anybody involved in the Nuremburg Trials)