WANTED: Real witnesses to gas chambers

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
David
Member
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:59 pm

Postby David » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:29 pm)

Sailor and Hannover,

Dr. Kremer is said not to have recanted anything though!

Please see here: Link here

Phillip Mathews asserts that Dr. Kremer never actually recanted. If you read what Dr. Kremer wrote carefully, he doesn't seem to recant anything. So Dr. Kremer's original testimony indicating homicide still stands. Comments invited.

Dave

---------
Link too long. Edited by Webmaster

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9833
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:58 pm)

Sailor said:
A well known case is Dr. Kremer, who recanted after he was dismissed from a Polish prison. Polish judge Sehn immediately rushed to Germany, and subsequently Dr. Kremer was called in to the courts and was aparently threatened with another ten years in jail. He withdrew his refutation

Kremer said:
"If according to human criteria I have done something evil, I can only
ask you to take into consideration my age and my tragic fate. **I have no knowledge of any offense in the juridicial and penal sense.** I entrust to the Supreme Judge of everyone the task of resolving a dilemma that is not simple for human understanding."

There it is, clear as can be; but characters like this Philip Mathews say that Kremer didn't recant? I submit that Philip Matthews is quite impaired.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Sailor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:54 pm
Location: California

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:33 pm)

From an old message I posted on alt.revisionism:

Professor Kremer recants:

After ten years in jail in Poland and after his return to Münster in 1957, Kremer began to protest against the treatment that he had undergone at the hands of the Polish courts and (using here the words used by the Polish Communists themselves in the Anthologie):

by his protests and by his request to regain his chair as a professor, Kremer attracted the attention of certain circles and of certain persons who made him appear once more before the Courts (p.239).

Kremer, as a matter of fact, had complained that in Poland "only hatred was entitled to give its opinion" (p.240). Better than that, we learn, thanks to that Communist publication, that after his return to Münster Kremer retracted his confessions. In the pious Communist jargon:

“[Kremer] disputed the explanations that he had furnished during the investigation in Cracow and which had been read to him [at the Münster tribunal] (p.242).”

The most degrading fact for the judges of the Münster tribunal was the complacency with which they had heard the explanations furnished by Jan Sehn, who had come from Cracow (Sehn was the judge who sentenced Dr.Kremer in Poland in 1947 first to death, than prison to life and then let him go after 10 years).. You must read the Communist account of that session. It ought to be quoted in its entirety. In Cracow in 1947, Kremer had not had any choice. It had been necessary for him to confess. The most astonishing thing is what Jan Sehn himself ended up saying before the German judges. As far as he was concerned, from the start Kremer did not have the right to plead not guilty. Jan Sehn said, with a marvelous lack of awareness of what he was saying:

“A declaration of innocence would have been incompatible with what the accused had written [in his private diary] (p.246).”

In other words, the Communist Jan Sehn had decided that Kremer's private diary was written in a sort of coded language to which he, Jan Sehn, possessed the key. Prisoner Kremer could only bow before the authority and the hate of examining magistrate Jan Sehn.

His Polish and German tormentors profited from him to the very end. Kremer was used like a puppet. He came to the Frankfurt Trial to make a forced appearance there.

Listen to his final declaration at the Münster trial in 1960:

“If according to human criteria I have done something evil, I can only ask you to take into consideration my age and my tragic fate. I have no knowledge of any offense in the juridical and penal sense. I entrust to the Supreme Judge of everyone the task of resolving a dilemma that is not simple for human understanding (p.258).”

Professor Kremer, in the final account, was less skillful and prudent than his fellow professor, Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, in the Gerstein case. Pfannenstiel, the father of five children, was able to save a good career for himself thanks to his extremely vague confessions.

fge

nny
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:43 pm

Postby nny » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:02 am)

David wrote:Have any former Nazis who were in charge of (or low SS guards who would have known or seen) the alleged extermination camps come forward and denied the possibility of gassings?

Dave


Yes actually, Thies Christophersen was a guard at Auschwitz and he wrote a book titled "The Auschwitz Lie". Since he was unmistakably a guard at Auschwitz most people have to say that 'just because he didn't see gas chambers didn't mean they weren't there' etc etc. His book met with a bit of a stir in Germany but was subsequently banned. He was never jailled directly for his book, but indirectly for other silly things. He died in 1997 I believe, he claims to have been contacted by plenty of former SS camp guards who are afraid to come forward. You can read more about him here :

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p32_Weber.html

Don't forget, these guys don't have the luxury of someone like, say, Solomon Morel, the statute of limitations NEVER run out on genocide (Luckily for Morel, his 1500 victims were not killed because they were German, they just happened to be German). :/

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:16 am)

just because he didn't see gas chambers didn't mean they weren't there' etc etc.


I'm sure if I was working somewhere where they buried hundreds of thousands of people in vanishing graves, dug them all up again and burnt them in water-loggged pit's with no fuel, I'm pretty certain I would get an inkling of something going on sooner or later.

nny
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:43 pm

Postby nny » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:06 am)

from Turpitz:
I'm sure if I was working somewhere where they buried hundreds of thousands of people in vanishing graves, dug them all up again and burnt them in water-loggged pit's with no fuel, I'm pretty certain I would get an inkling of something going on sooner or later.


Thats not the most amazing revelation from someone at Auschwitz, how about Walter Schreiber :

Who is Walter Schreiber?
Walter Schreiber was born in 1908 and died in 1999 at the
age of 91 in Vienna. He studied civil engineering at the Technical
University in Vienna and worked first on the construction of
the alpine high altitude road “Großglockner-Hochalpenstraße”
as assistant to the construction manager. After an extended period
of unemployment he emigrated to the Soviet Union in
1932 and worked on the construction of refrigeration buildings
and alcoholic beverage factories in Bryansk, Spassk, and Petrofsk
until 1935. In 1936 Schreiber went to Germany, where he
worked first for the Tesch Corporation and then, from 1937 to
Aug. 31, 1945, for the Huta Corporation. Schreiber was employed
as a senior engineer in the branch office in Kattowitz
from Jan. 11, 1943, until the evacuation of Upper Silesia in
1945.
After the war Schreiber worked for the Municipal Construction
Office Directorate (Stadtbauamtsdirektion) Vienna, the
Austrian Danube Power Plants Society (Österreichische
Donaukraftwerke AG), the Jochenstein Danube Power Plant
Society (Donaukraftwerk Jochenstein AG) and the Verbundgesellschaft
Vienna.

Why is Schreiber Interesting?
What is so interesting in the professional life of this Austrian
civil engineer? He worked as a senior engineer in the
branch office in Kattowitz for the construction activities of his
firm and was also responsible for constructions in the concentration
camp Auschwitz and its sub-camps.
He was interviewed about Auschwitz in the year 1998 by
Dipl.-Ing. Walter Lüftl, who had been President of the Austrian
Society of Civil Engineers until 1992. Answers that are of interest
for historiography are found in the following:
Lüftl: In which areas were you active?
Schreiber: As senior engineer I inspected the civil project of
the Huta Corporation and negotiated with the Central Construction
office of the SS. I also audited the invoices of our firm.
L.: Did you enter the camp? How did that happen?
S.: Yes. One could walk everywhere without hindrance on
the streets of the camp and was only stopped by the guards
upon entering and leaving the camp.
L.: Did you see or hear anything about killings or mistreatment
of inmates?
S.: No. But lines of inmates in a relatively poor general
condition could occasionally be seen on the streets of the camp.
L.: What did the Huta Corporation build?
S.: Among other things, crematoria II and III with the large
morgues.
L.: The prevalent opinion (considered to be self evident) is
that these large morgues were allegedly gas chambers for mass
killings.
S.: Nothing of that sort could be deduced from the plans
made available to us. The detailed plans and provisional invoices
drawn up by us refer to these rooms as ordinary cellars.
L.: Do you know anything about introduction hatches in the
reinforced concrete ceilings?
S.: No, not from memory. But since these cellars were also
intended to serve as air raid shelters as a secondary purpose,
introduction holes would have been counter-productive. I
would certainly have objected to such an arrangement.
L.: Why were such large cellars built, when the water table
in Birkenau was so extremely high?
S.: I don’t know. Originally, however, above-ground
morgues were to be built. The construction of the cellars
caused great problems in water retention during the construction
time and sealing the walls.
L.: Would it be conceivable that you were deceived and that
the SS nevertheless had gas chambers built by your firm without
your knowledge?
S.: Anyone who is familiar with a construction site knows
that is impossible.
L.: Do you know any gas chambers?
S.: Naturally. Everyone in the east knew about disinfestation
chambers. We also built disinfestation chambers, but they
looked quite different. We built such installations and knew
what they looked like after the installation of the machinery. As
a construction firm, we often had to make changes according to
the devices to be installed.
L.: When did you learn that your firm was supposed to have
built gas chambers for industrial mass killing?
S.: Only after the end of the war.
L.: Weren’t you quite surprised about this?
S.: Yes! After the war I contacted my former supervisor in
Germany and asked him about it.
L.: What did you learn?
S.: He also only learned about this after the war, but he assured
me that the Huta Corporation certainly did not build the
cellars in question as gas chambers.
L.: Would a building alteration be conceivable after the
withdrawal of the Huta Corporation?
S.: Conceivable, sure, but I would rule that out on the basis
of time factors. After all, they would have needed construction
firms again, the SS couldn’t do that on their own, even with inmates.
Based on the technical requirements for the operation of
a gas chamber, which only became known to me later, the
building erected by us would have been entirely unsuitable for
this purpose with regard to the necessary machinery and the
practical operation.
L.: Why didn’t you publish that?
S.: After the war, first, I had other problems. And now it is
no longer permitted.
L.: Were you ever interrogated as a witness in this matter?
The Revisionist · 2004 · Volume 2 · No. 3 297
S.: No Allied, German, or Austrian agency has ever shown
an interest in my knowledge of the construction of crematoria II
and III, or my other activities in the former Generalgouvernement
[German occupied Poland]. I was never interrogated
about this matter, although my services for the Huta Corporation
in Kattowitz were known. I mentioned them in all my later
CVs and recruitment applications. Since knowledge about these
facts is dangerous, however, I never felt any urge to propagate
it. But now, as the lies are getting increasingly bolder and contemporary
witnesses from that time like myself are slowly but
surely dying off, I am glad that someone is willing to listen and
to write down the way as it really was. I have serious heart
trouble and can die at any moment, it’s time now.


So his firm built the 'gas chambers' and even his higher ups weren't aware, talk about 'keeping people in the dark'. I guess only SonderKommando are privy to that kind of information. Oh, and Elie Weilsel, Mermelstein, Vrba etc etc...

Barrington James
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:26 pm

Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:42 am)

Why don’t the “ Old men” come clean and tell us what they know about the gas chambers? The reason is simple. These old men are not living in isolation. They have families with children, grandchildren and great-children and they certainly don’t want to jeopardize the future of their loved ones just to set some record clean-that there were no lethal gas chambers. This truth would only bring misery to their families.
+
Butz? Staglisch? Graf? Berg? Keegstra? Rudolf? Rassinier? Finkelstein? Zundel? They have all paid a price that the average person is not willing to pay. The Zionists have scoured the world looking for victims, anyone who worked in a camp, to showcase their false claims. They have a battalion of witnesses all poised to claim you are Ivan this or Ivan that. Better to shut up and let it all pass.

I also find it strange that no Kapo that I know of has ever been arrested and charged with a war crime. After all “everyone knows” that the Kapos were the most brutal people in the camps.
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:51 pm)

So his firm built the 'gas chambers' and even his higher ups weren't aware, talk about 'keeping people in the dark'.


It is an utterly impossible scenario as Schreiber suggests "Anyone who is familiar with a construction site knows that is impossible."

The people who actually construct and become involved in the physical erection of buildings gain a far more intimate knowledge of them, they will know every nook and cranny off by heart towards the end of operations. This "keep them in the dark" logic is the type of bullshit remote theorists like Pelty and Skunky Evans promote.

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:56 pm)

The building erected by us would have been entirely unsuitable for
this purpose with regard to the necessary machinery and the practical operation.


Your damn right there.

nny
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:43 pm

Postby nny » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:08 pm)

Turpitz wrote:
The building erected by us would have been entirely unsuitable for
this purpose with regard to the necessary machinery and the practical operation.


Your damn right there.


Someone like Christophersen and Schreiber get shoved down the collective memory hole and dismissed as neo-nazis or anti-semites (the 'kiss of death' in the credibility world) yet people who pretend to be clowns to avoid 'being gassed' at Auschwitz get plays made out of them.

"He made me laugh, no crematorium today", give me a break.

J William
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:21 pm

Postby J William » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:30 am)

nny wrote:Yes actually, Thies Christophersen was a guard at Auschwitz and he wrote a book titled "The Auschwitz Lie". Since he was unmistakably a guard at :/

My recollection of Christopherson's book has him working as an agricultural technician researching the feasibility of getting rubber from the sap of various indigenous plants. It is true that he visited the alleged gas chamber camps often but I don't think that he was a guard at these camps.

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:57 am)

It is true that he visited the alleged gas chamber camps often but I don't think that he was a guard at these camps.


Whether or not one visited occasionally, actually worked there or even lived in the surrounding vicinity, the sheer magnitude and nature of the supposed laughable operations would have rendered them impossible to hide. Gossip-mongers would have spread the news far and wide, on calm days the whole of the flat-lands where Birkenau was situated would have become engulfed in thick, stinking, noxious smoke. The utter chaos and devastion would be known to all, the aftermath would scar the terrain for a great many years after.

nny
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:43 pm

Postby nny » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:06 pm)

J William wrote:
nny wrote:Yes actually, Thies Christophersen was a guard at Auschwitz and he wrote a book titled "The Auschwitz Lie". Since he was unmistakably a guard at :/

My recollection of Christopherson's book has him working as an agricultural technician researching the feasibility of getting rubber from the sap of various indigenous plants. It is true that he visited the alleged gas chamber camps often but I don't think that he was a guard at these camps.


I'm sorry you're correct. He was an army officer at Auschwitz, not a SS guard, thats my mistake. He supervised around 300 inmates, 100 from Auschwitz and 200 from Raisko. He was present in the camp periodically during the period between May 44 and July 44, a period where rampant gassings of up to 10,000 people a day are alleged to have occured.

I was also somewhat mistaken about his persecution, he was forbidden to return to Germany to attend the funeral of his son whom had died in a car crash in 1996.

http://www.revisionists.com/revisionist ... ersen.html

Radar
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 505
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:25 pm

Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:40 am)

Oh!

If only someone had the presence of mind to ask Schreiber about the ventilation ducts.

nny
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:43 pm

Postby nny » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:19 pm)

Radar wrote:Oh!

If only someone had the presence of mind to ask Schreiber about the ventilation ducts.


Certainly they had the presence of mind NOT to ask him ;)


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests