WANTED: Real witnesses to gas chambers

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:48 pm)

Hyman pointed out:
When defending against charges of libel by David Irving, Deborah Lipstadt and her million dollar defense team were able to come up with only five purported eyewitnesses to gas chambers at Auschwitz....


Correct. And those alleged, so called 'eyewitnesses' are/were all dead. Rather convenient when the goal is to prevent cross examination.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:30 pm)

David said again:
I WILL BE VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE FIRST PERSON THAT GIVES ME A LEGITIMATE FACTUAL REPORT OF A FORMER NAZI CAMP GUARD AT ONE OF THE SUPPOSSED EXTERMINATION CAMPS WHO DENIES HOMICIDAL GASSINGS BECAUSE HE WORKED NEAR THE CHAMBERS AND WOULD KNOW. (please not Baer or anybody involved in the Nuremburg Trials)

Gee, I wonder if severe legal penalties has anything to do with their silence? :roll:

Plus, they saw all too clearly what happened to Baer & Himmler (rather convenient 'suicides').

And, appreciating the fact that these former camp staff are quite old, they certainly do not relish the idea of spending the rest of their lives in prison and paying fines from a fixed income, it's not the least bit difficult to understand their acquiescence to the Thought Police. In their case silence is indeed golden.

I certainly hate paying income taxes, but if I do not I'll go to jail and be fined. So, I pay them. Coercion has that effect.

However, I do see that David has failed to produce any 'eyewitnesses' and their specifics that he finds credible. He's been asked repeatedly, but fails to meet the challenge. Must be a good reason for that.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby David » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:45 pm)

Oh please! Don't you think an old man would be MORE likely to come out because he knows he only has a couple years left anyway?

A chance to set the record straight would outweigh fear of death to someone who has lived hiding the truth inside for so long and who is about to pass on to the next life very soon.

Wo sind sie?

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Postby gonzo » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:31 pm)

David
I'm sure there's at least a couple with enough vinegar, stubborness, and courage (if it is true).


..You would think some kind of testament would surface soon. I expect it . Because these vets are in their 80's .. The next 10 years will be a key period for Revisionists and Holocau$t people. i am excited because I know in my heart ...the gassings will some day be proven a fraud.

David, Why hasnt the holocaust industry found a credible and living witness? THEY HAVE FOUND NONE !

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:38 pm)

Why should an old man want to spend his remaining years in jail? Why should an old man want to spend what little money he may have on huge fines?

I'm afraid you're beating your dead horse.

But let's cut to the chase David, you simply have no 'confessors' or 'eyewitnesses' which will hold up to scrutiny. Let's face it, Revisionists at this Forum would slice and dice any of their alleged testimonies, hence you dodge the challenge of debating even a single one of them.

Fish or cut bait, David.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Baer

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:11 pm)

David wrote: (please not Baer or anybody involved in the Nuremburg Trials)


Why not Baer? He was commander. What is wrong with him?

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Postby David » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:07 pm)

Claudia,
Because if I didn't say not to include Baer, people would just repost Baer's name. I'm looking for more guys out there.
D

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:42 pm)

David wrote: Oh please! Don't you think an old man would be MORE likely to come out because he knows he only has a couple years left anyway?

A chance to set the record straight would outweigh fear of death to someone who has lived hiding the truth inside for so long and who is about to pass on to the next life very soon.

No.

German courts are ruthless when it comes to the Holocaust. Case in point is the former Waffen-SS man Julius Viel. He was 83 years old, could not go to the toilet anymore and was not more than 10 minutes awake during the court hearings in Germany, before he dozed off again.

A well known case is Dr. Kremer, who recanted after he was dismissed from a Polish prison. Polish judge Sehn immediately rushed to Germany, and subsequently Dr. Kremer was called in to the courts and was aparently threatened with another ten years in jail. He withdrew his refutation

fge

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Postby David » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:14 am)

Claudia and others,
Baer did admit there were gas chambers!
See here:
http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/ftp. ... s-birkenau

"In "Nazi Mass Murder", Yale Uni. Press, 1993, on page 142, a
statement of Baer from Dec. 22, 1960, is quoted, with the
full source: "I commanded only Camp I at Auschwitz. I had nothing
to do with the camps where the gassings took place. I had no
influence over them. It was in Camp II, at Birkenau, that the
gassings took place. That camp was not under my authority"."

So it's official. No one who was there denies the gas chamber story.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:48 am)

'Official'? Hardly.

It's my understanding that Baer mysteriously and conveniently died prior to his trial, not during, as Danny Keren states.

If Baer wasn't in charge of Birkenau, then who was?

Can we have the original source for the alleged quote? What exactly were the questions put to him? Can we see the entire text of the interrogation where he supposedly said this? Was his attorney present? Did Baer even have an attorney?

And ofcourse, David ignores Sailor's point here:
A well known case is Dr. Kremer, who recanted after he was dismissed from a Polish prison. Polish judge Sehn immediately rushed to Germany, and subsequently Dr. Kremer was called in to the courts and was aparently threatened with another ten years in jail. He withdrew his refutation

Indeed, there was obviously a heavy penalty for speaking out about the fraudulence of the absurd 'gas chambers', and for not agreeing to predetermined Potemkin village 'facts'.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:17 am)

David quoted from Langbein "Der Auschwitz-Prozeß". Langbein is Jewish, was an inmate in Auschwitz and was instrumental in launching the big Auschwitz trial in Frankfurt, Germany.

Langbein can hardly be considered unbiased.

When Judge Dr. Stäglich attempted to look at the court files of Baer to verify above, he was refused by the authorities.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:52 am)

When Judge Dr. Stäglich attempted to look at the court files of Baer to verify above, he was refused by the authorities.

Ah yes, they clearly have something to hide. Nothing like denying access to important information to prevent lies from being exposed. Only lies and fraud require such actions.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby David » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:03 pm)

Sailor,
Will you please provide your source for stating Judge Staeglich was refused the files to investigate Baer?
You don't expect me to take your word over Langbein's, do you? :?

D

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:47 pm)

David wrote:Sailor,
Will you please provide your source for stating Judge Staeglich was refused the files to investigate Baer?
You don't expect me to take your word over Langbein's, do you? :?

D

No.
I would not if I were you. :D

See:
Dr. Wilhelm Stäglich "Der Auschwitz Mythos"
http://vho.org/D/dam/index.html

This is a book, a critical review of Langbein's "Der Auschwitz-Prozeß"

Specifically the chapter:
"Verweigerung der Einsichtnahme in die Akten des ersten Frankfurter Auschwitz-Prozesses"
(Refusal to inspect the files of the first Auschwitz trial in Frankfurt)
http://vho.org/D/dam/MAIII.html

The Jewish writer J.G. Burg:

[...]Although I am Jewish it is horrible for me to watch these trials, to see how a good, industrious people with masochistic blissfulness commits physical, mental and spiritual harakiri [...] These war crime trials will not be honorable to the German people. The hanging of the condemmed at the Nuremberg Military Tribunals should have put a final stroke under the sad chapter. The victorious powers were shortsighted and ill advised when they imposed on the the German people these ghastly spectacles, because under the general contract the German government was dictated to the continuation of these socalled war crime trials. Germans shall sit on judgement against Germans in this unworthy form. That is no search for justice but, since long proven, an anti-German policy.[...]

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Postby Temporary on hold » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:00 pm)

To take another tack, I believe a pattern of false gas chamber claims can be shown by working back from the other direction.

Dachau is a prime example of a non-gas chamber camp being held in judicial notice as a homicidal gassing camp. Wiesenthal already admitted "there were no extermination camps on German soil." I believe the Nuremberg official Shawcross (sp?) referred to Dachau as part of the nazi mass extermination gas chamber machinery in official remarks. Hence, this statement could technically be used to block any questioning of Dachau as a homicidal gas chamber facility - even though holocaust promoters admit it wasn't. There is also a statement from a soldier under American officer Strauss who told of German prisoners constructing the present "gas chamber" there in order to conform to Nuremberg claims.

I suppose if one of these 'vinegar' cases were to go stand up and deny there being gas chambers at Dachau he would potentially face full 'holocaust denial' penalties. I'm sure this legal jeopardy is not a strong incentive for fighting this long uphill battle. To ask them to do so so innocently is to ignore the already-imposed huge international reparations penalties already being paid by the repenitent German government. A government that stands at the vulernable end of huge international response to any word of "neo-nazi" resurgence. To ignore this is to commit a sort of intellectual 'denial' of equal proportion...

On another site a poster told me with confidence that the chamber at Dachau was constructed as a "test" chamber for other camps. After I pointed out that it wasn't finished until 1945 she strangely disappeared...


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