Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

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Wagner
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Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Wagner » 3 years 7 months ago (Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:35 pm)

Hello guys this is Wagner again :)

I would like to thank you for providing me information in my previous thread and now I have another question, it's about Wansee onference and Wansee Protocol

Is the protocol legitimate?
Is it forgery? How so?
Is the author Eichmann?
There is a part in the Protocol where it says "treated accordingly", what does it mean?

Thank you - Wagner

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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Hannover » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:09 am)

Have a look at this thread, I've copy the original post in that thread below.

Wannsee Conference minutes debunked
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1647

- Hannover

Why do so many want 6M Jews to be dead? Revisionists don't.

Hannover wrote:A common tactic is for the holocaust Industry to refer to the alleged numbers of Jews in Europe as indicated in the alleged notes of the Wannsee Conference ... which was held to discuss 'final solution' to the Jewish problem by deportation & resettlement, not the alleged 'extermination'.

These numbers are so far off base that even prominient Jews have dismissed them. (according to Yehuda Bauer there were only 9 million Jews in ALL of Europe...A HISTORY OF THE HOLOCAUST by Yehuda Bauer. New York: Franklin Watts, 1982, 398pp, $15.95, ISBN 0-531-098621)
Wannsee indicates 11,000,000 Jews in Europe (ex.: 700,000 in France...which is patently absurd), therefore leading some to the conclusion that the minutes of that Wannsee meeting were tampered with.

It's interesting since we have the original document which postponed the conference to a later date, see scan here - http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Note080142.html - but not the original meeting notes.
Anyone seen the **original** Wannsee Conference minutes?

There is no doubt by Revisionists that the conference took place, and undoubtedly minutes were taken. However, whatever minutes actually do/did exist apparently have been manipulated in an attempt to create an outcome that would come closer to supporting the fraudulent assumption of '6,000,000'. That awkward undertaking was less than successful as there are howlers aplenty:

- the absurd numbers of Jews that are listed in these alleged 'translations'

- no mention of 'gas chambers' or mass murder as a 'solution'

- the markings on this alleged "copy 16 of 30" are in contradiction with normal German administrative procedure at the time

- Auschwitz commandant Hoess allegedly "confessed" that in August, 1941, Himmler told him to start gassing at Auschwitz and that it was already being done at Majdanek. So, we allegedly have mass extermination already in progress at Majdanek in Aug. '41, improved and underway at Auschwitz by October, 1941 and then in January 1942 we have Wannsee supposedly creating plans that have no bearing upon the current accepted timeline of mass extermination. Why hold a conference months after the alleged 'extermination plan' was already in progress?

The source of the Wannsee Protocol document, which claims to be "copy 16 of 30", is none other than Nuremberg prosecutor, arch judeo-supremacist / Zionist, Robert Max Kempner.

David Irving says this about shyster Kempner:
Kempner's behaviour with evidence was also highly questionable. He would later turn up in German foreign ministry files the Original Copy No. 16 (SIXTEEN) of the Wannsee Protocol, and bestow upon it a wholly undeserved reputation as a key document in the Final Solution of the Jewish Problem; despite the aura which now surrounds it, the document contains no explicit reference to the killing of Jews. It is complete with 'Geheime Kommandosache' rubber stamps. Not only did the R.H.S.A., the agency supposedly originating the document, use the civilian classification 'Geheime Reichssache' on it's documents, but the statistics contained in the document bore little relation either to each other or to reality.

There is further evidence of skulduggery in the documents collected by Kempner's office on the Final Solution. The Nuremberg document experts routinely produced 'staff evidence analysis sheets' on the documents that came into their hands, indicating where they were found, and which individuals were mentioned or incriminated by them.

The sheet on document 4055-PS, a photostat of parts of the German ministry of the interior file on the Final Solution, shows that when first analysed by the experts it contained four important items relating to discussions on definitions of Jews; one of these four documents originating in the spring of 1942, showed Staatssekretaer Franz Schlegelberger informing his staff at the justice ministry that Dr. Hans Lammers, chief of the Reich chancellery, had phoned to inform him the the Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler, had 'repeatedly' ordered the solution of the Jewish problem 'postponed until after the war was over'. This did not suit Kempner at all, and when the file was returned to the document centre this particular photostat was missing."

from: 'Nuremberg, the Last Battle', 1996, by David Irving; p.91-92.

There was a movie made about the Wannsee Conference supposedly based upon the Conference minutes. However since the minutes contained nothing about gas chambers and killing, they had to use the theatrical device of going off the record by creating 'talk' about killing. It was never explained of course, how they knew what was said off the record if there was no record.
It’s just another example of circular logic. 'We know the Holocaust happened so the Wannsee Conference was about killing Jews' and 'since the Wannsee Conference planned the killing of Jews it proved that the Holocaust happened as it's alleged'

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby borjastick » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:51 am)

As Hannover says there are way too many discrepancies in the interpretation of what did or did not happen at the conference for it to be accepted at face value. The versions of the so called minutes also leave an odour hanging in the air.

Some years ago the BBC did a dramatisation of the event. I watched in horror as the dialogue, which could not possibly have been known, was developed to 'prove' the theory that at this meeting Heydrich dictated to the assembled that the jews would be exterminated.

For me though, as Hannover has touched upon, the real issue is that this meeting took place after the so called mass murders in the east had been under way for some time.

On a more general note Wagner, you are obviously searching for a greater knowledge of the whole subject, some task indeed and one that is more of a journey than a destination, so maybe you should invest in some of the main books on it to get up to speed.

Edit: I've just found this group of youtube videos on the BBC/HBO production. Can't find the whole film but these clips will give you a good idea. It's star filled production. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS_ZlbA ... vaOHshJpfO
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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Reviso » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:11 am)

Exterminationist Christopher Browning says :
One notable Nazi leader had not sent a representative to the Wannsee Conference, namely Heydrich and Himmler's disliked rival, Josef Goebbels of the Propaganda Ministry. It would appear that Goebbels received an expurgated version of the protocol only much later. He noted in his diary entry of March 7, 1942, concerning a report "from the SD and police regarding the final solution of the Jewish question." He noted the Wannsee Conference figure of 11 million Jews in Europe and then wrote: "They will have to be concentrated later, to begin with, in the East; possibly an island, such as Madagascar can be assigned to them after the war."91 In reality, of course, the Jews were neither going to be concentrated "later," nor sent to Madagascar after the war. The Jews of the Warthegau were already being gassed at this moment, and the gassing of Serbian Jews in the Semlin camp outside Belgrade was imminent. Moreover, the "concentration" of the Jews of Poland in the three tiny villages of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka was about to begin

(It's here : https://www.hdot.org/browning/# )
Was the copy sent to Goebbels "expurgated" or was the Kempner copy made worse ?
R.

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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby hermod » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:17 am)

Wagner wrote:There is a part in the Protocol where it says "treated accordingly", what does it mean?


It meant that all of them were to be gathered and expelled to a large Jewish ghetto whose precise location was still to be determined (likely somewhere in Africa) but in any case located far from Europe.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Wagner » 3 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:58 am)

Reviso wrote:Exterminationist Christopher Browning says :
One notable Nazi leader had not sent a representative to the Wannsee Conference, namely Heydrich and Himmler's disliked rival, Josef Goebbels of the Propaganda Ministry. It would appear that Goebbels received an expurgated version of the protocol only much later. He noted in his diary entry of March 7, 1942, concerning a report "from the SD and police regarding the final solution of the Jewish question." He noted the Wannsee Conference figure of 11 million Jews in Europe and then wrote: "They will have to be concentrated later, to begin with, in the East; possibly an island, such as Madagascar can be assigned to them after the war."91 In reality, of course, the Jews were neither going to be concentrated "later," nor sent to Madagascar after the war. The Jews of the Warthegau were already being gassed at this moment, and the gassing of Serbian Jews in the Semlin camp outside Belgrade was imminent. Moreover, the "concentration" of the Jews of Poland in the three tiny villages of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka was about to begin

(It's here : https://www.hdot.org/browning/# )
Was the copy sent to Goebbels "expurgated" or was the Kempner copy made worse ?
R.


I don't know honestly this kind of tells me the author is biased I say it because of this sentence

In reality, of course, the Jews were neither going to be concentrated "later," nor sent to Madagascar after the war. The Jews of the Warthegau were already being gassed at this moment, and the gassing of Serbian Jews in the Semlin camp outside Belgrade was imminent


I mean what argument is he basing this upon? The diary just says;

"They will have to be concentrated later, to begin with, in the East; possibly an island, such as Madagascar can be assigned to them after the war."


I hate this way of reasoning of "this what it really means" or "this is a code word of something" and then biased exterminationists like to just go out and throw words and names of camps. Jesus is there anyone who wont take a biased approach when writing history. We know Nazis killed people, We know that! But so did Allies and Soviets, now can we please not go out ape shit when writing history that has to do with Nazis? :cry:

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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Reviso » 3 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:09 am)

Wagner, the reason why I quoted Browning is that his words strongly suggest that the copy of the protocol "discovered" by the archive thief Kempner was falsified and that the Madagascar type solutions, mentioned by Goebbels when he cites the copy he received, were contemplated during the Wannsee Conference but were eliminated by Kempner (or by Kempner boys) and replaced by a vague and grim "treated accordingly".
R.

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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Hieldner » 3 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:09 am)

Since it wasn’t quoted already, the definitive study on whether the protocol is legitimate: http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndwannsee.html
The director of the Wannsee memorial now claims, without proof, that there were multiple Wannsee conferences https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zweiter- ... geben.html, because they finally noticed some of the alleged extermination camps had already begun operations at the date of the conference.
In the State Archive Shitomir in the Ukraine there’s a document which details concrete preparations for further deportations to the territory of the occupied Soviet Union: On 12 January 1942, thus only a few days before the Wannsee Conference, the Higher SS- and Police Commander Ukraine directed the Commissary Generals in Brest, Shitomir, Nikolajew, Dnjepropetrowsk and Kiew to begin preparations for the establishment of ghettos, so that “even more Jews from Germany proper [Altreich] may be accomodated there in the course of 1942.” (StA Shitomir, P 1151-1-137 […])
Peter Longerich, Wannseekonferenz, 2016, p. 37.
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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby hermod » 3 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:59 am)

Wagner wrote:I mean what argument is he basing this upon?


Upon testimonies and preconceived beliefs, the core of Holocaustianity and Ufology, of course !
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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Reviso » 3 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:42 am)

How can it be explained that Goebbels, as Browning says,
noted in his diary entry of March 7, 1942, concerning a report "from the SD and police regarding the final solution of the Jewish question." He noted the Wannsee Conference figure of 11 million Jews in Europe and then wrote: "They will have to be concentrated later, to begin with, in the East; possibly an island, such as Madagascar can be assigned to them after the war."
?
Isn't it the proof that a Madagascar solution was contemplated at Wannsee ? And if there is no word about Madagascar on the Kempner copy of the Wannsee Protocol, isn't it the proof that Kempner's copy is false ?
R.

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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Hannover » 3 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:52 am)

"Holocaust historian" Yehuda Bauer:
The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at.”

source: Canadian Jewish News, 30 January 1992.
-H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby borjastick » 3 years 7 months ago (Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:32 pm)

Reviso wrote:Exterminationist Christopher Browning says :
One notable Nazi leader had not sent a representative to the Wannsee Conference, namely Heydrich and Himmler's disliked rival, Josef Goebbels of the Propaganda Ministry. It would appear that Goebbels received an expurgated version of the protocol only much later. He noted in his diary entry of March 7, 1942, concerning a report "from the SD and police regarding the final solution of the Jewish question." He noted the Wannsee Conference figure of 11 million Jews in Europe and then wrote: "They will have to be concentrated later, to begin with, in the East; possibly an island, such as Madagascar can be assigned to them after the war."91 In reality, of course, the Jews were neither going to be concentrated "later," nor sent to Madagascar after the war. The Jews of the Warthegau were already being gassed at this moment, and the gassing of Serbian Jews in the Semlin camp outside Belgrade was imminent. Moreover, the "concentration" of the Jews of Poland in the three tiny villages of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka was about to begin

(It's here : https://www.hdot.org/browning/# )
Was the copy sent to Goebbels "expurgated" or was the Kempner copy made worse ?
R.


Why would Goebbels need to be there, there was nothing to publicise.

I used to be PR manager of a large international company and as a rule I was present at all management meetings. But if the meeting subject matter was a more technical or operational leaning it wasn't necessary for me to be involved, so I wasn't.
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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Reviso » 3 years 7 months ago (Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:36 pm)

I'm a bit surprised that nobody seems interested by my remark that Goebbel's note could be the smoking gun proving that Kempner's copy of the Protocol is false...
R.

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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 years 7 months ago (Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:56 pm)

Reviso wrote:I'm a bit surprised that nobody seems interested by my remark that Goebbel's note could be the smoking gun proving that Kempner's copy of the Protocol is false...
R.


I find this very interesting. There are Two versions of the Wannseeprotokoll. It has Long been suspected that the Protocolls were forged by Kempner. This appears to confirm this suspision. Why should Goebbels receive an "expurged Version" of the Protokoll? Also read this study by Ney:

http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/8.html
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Re: Question regarding Wansee and Eichmann

Postby hermod » 3 years 7 months ago (Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:10 pm)

Reviso wrote:I'm a bit surprised that nobody seems interested by my remark that Goebbel's note could be the smoking gun proving that Kempner's copy of the Protocol is false...


Could be a smoking gun that Kempner's copy of the Wannsee Protocol is a forgery, but could also be additional information Goebbels had from talks with Hitler and/or other National Socialist leaders.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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