Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

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Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby flimflam » 3 years 7 months ago (Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:58 pm)

Just out of curiosity, is there any testimony from non-Jews claiming there were gas chambers, or that their friends/relatives were gassed ? For example ?

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby Hektor » 3 years 7 months ago (Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:16 pm)

flimflam wrote:Just out of curiosity, is there any testimony from non-Jews claiming there were gas chambers, or that their friends/relatives were gassed ? For example ?

Yes there are. Rudol Hoess and Richard Boeck come to mind, but I think there are more, mostly they appear to be hearsay though.

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby Atigun » 3 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:48 am)

Are you talking about an "ordinary man in a concentration camp," flimflam? People who worked or lived around the camps? I'm not sure if testimony from POW or people involved in the various legal processes could be considered reliable.

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby borjastick » 3 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:36 am)

I can see the possible route flimflam is opening up here for exploration. That is that if non jews who were in the camps (and let's not forget that more Catholics died at Auschwitz than others, according to the intercepts from Bletchley) made no reference in support or denial of gas chambers it makes it more unlikely that it really happened.

As mentioned above there were some non jew references to the gas chambers but those were hearsay, as were most stories from jews, were they not?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby hermod » 3 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:16 am)

Witold Pilecki.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby ChronoMachete » 3 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:41 pm)

Buchenwald witness testimony is a classic example in general.

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby MrRizoli » 3 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:46 pm)

FlimFlam....you made a comment to me but are having trouble here responding to you...so here goes...as I am still trying to figure this site out
so I will post here.... my apologies.
You basically said in a post to me here personally I have no right to criticize Eric Hunt because he has done way more than me for the cause....
My response for all to see....
Eric Hunt has done some great videos no doubt but that is neither here or there at this point especially if he recants all that was said in those video. He's an exceptional person there is no doubt.
In regards to my credentials....
I have produced well over a thousand videos on several different subjects, had a cable show that had four one hr shows running per week until the Jews took them down and banned me for life of being on my local cable station. My first youtube channel was taken done by the Jews and so has my personal Facebook site.... That is only the beginning....I Have interviewed the major top revisionist in the word for all to see and many others. And continue to do that, traveling to far away places to get some good interviews etc. So I've been pretty busy, and there isn't a day that goes by that I'm not reading, watching videos or responding to emails etc, that is EVERY DAY...
So if you think a few videos Eric Hunt takes the place of what I've been doing for the last 12 years I don't know what to say....Eric is a late comer into the revisionist game not me.
And the last thing I will say, who are you to criticize me, what have you done to come even close to what I have accomplished?
I'm not bragging just saying what been going on with my life...and thats not even all of it....

Jim Rizoli
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CCFIILE.COM

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby Hektor » 3 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:48 pm)

hermod wrote:Witold Pilecki.

He didn't just talk about gas chambers, he also implicated himself engaging in biological warfare using typhus:
[Siberian typhus]

The Bolsheviks left louses and terrible Siberian typhus, from which our colleagues began to suffer in mass. The typhus took the camp and was making a huge devastation. The authorities rubbed their hands, quietly contemplating that ally in doing prisoners away. Then we began, in HKB laboratory, to rear typhus louses and to set them free upon overcoats of SS-men, during each report and inspections of our blocks.

.....

[Done away by typhus]

I still lived in block 25, room 7. To compare the state of the room with that of Christmas Eve, it had to be stated that many friends were alive no more. We were terribly done for by typhus. All around were ill. As little as several of us, old friends, held ourselves. Who went for typhus, he returned rarely. But also our little, bred louses were doing their job and typhus broke up also in the barracks of SS-men and an epidemic grew up. Doctors could hardly cope with Siberian typhus, but organisms of SS-men also. The ranks of SS-men suffered more and more losses. They were sent to the hospital in Katowice, where SS-men died in most cases.


https://archive.org/details/WITOLDREPORT

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby DianeKAK » 3 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:17 am)

You have to remember in the big holohoax, ONLY JEWISH LIVES MATTER.

(This is becoming my favorite - highlights the ridiculous): 'Of the four million Jews under National Socialist control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'
HOLOCOSTOMANIA - "Accepting the holocost without question or discussion: Rots the brain, corrupts the morals and creates a psychopath. The cure: The truth opposing the perversion of the myth of the holocost. (Diane King)

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby Mortimer » 3 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:39 pm)

Robert Faurisson penned this article back in 1981 and it is from the second year of the Journal of Historical Review. He writes about 3 specific cases that of Rudolf Hoss, Pery Broad and Johann Paul Kremer. Also mentioned is the camp of Ravensbruck where it was formerly claimed that homicidal gassings took place -
http://codoh.com/library/document/1982/
There are 2 sides to every story - always listen or read both points of view and make up your own mind. Don't let others do your thinking for you.

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby flimflam » 3 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:36 pm)

I was thinking of non-Jewish prisoners, the gypsies, homos, political prisoners, et. al., not Germans on trial for their lives, we're all aware of that 'testimony'. So, SS 'confessions' don't count.

I wasn't really thinking of Polish military intelligence operatives, but, he wasn't Jewish, and he wasn't on trial, so Witold Pilecki counts.

Pilecki's story is amazing, he planned to be captured and sent to Auschwitz, he broadcast reports to the Poles from inside the camp on a clandestine radio, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki

The wiki article fails to mention his efforts at bio warfare with lice.

So, Pilecki is one. Any others?

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby hermod » 3 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:43 pm)

flimflam wrote:So, Pilecki is one. Any others?


The French Communist activist Marie-Claude Vaillant-Couturier is another one.

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:57 am)

But Vaillant-Couturier is only repeating what she was told. Hers is not firsthand witness testimony.

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby Hektor » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:46 am)

Kingfisher wrote:But Vaillant-Couturier is only repeating what she was told. Hers is not firsthand witness testimony.


Richard Boeck's statements appear to be "firsthand" though.

The prosecution also took great care to stress the terrible cruelty of the
gassing operations in Auschwitz, as evinced by the following statement from
former SS-Unterscharfuehrer Richard Boeck: "I simply cannot describe how these
people screamed. That lasted about eight or ten minutes and then everything was
quiet. A short while later, some inmates opened the door and you could still
see a blue fog hanging over the giant tangle of corpses
. The corpses were
cramped together in such a way that you could not tell to whom the individual
appendages and body parts belonged. For example, I noticed that one of the
victims had stuck his index finger several centimeters into the eye-socket of
another. This gives you a sense of how indescribably terrible the death throes
of this person must have been. I felt to ill that I almost vomited." The
visceral physicality of this description is immediately striking. These victims
are no mere statistics; they suffered terribly in acute, bodily ways. This
description makes it plain that killing people with gas was not, at its point
of application, a bureaucratic operation conducted with cold detachment but an
excrutiatingly brutal form of murder.

Work Cited

Pendas, Devin O. "The Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial, 1963-1965," New York:
Cambridge University Press, 2006. pp 112-113


Does anyone else notice that this statement is highly embellished for theatrical effect?

There are numerous problems with his testimony:
During his first interrogation, Böck claimed that he had witnessed a gassing "once myself. That must have been in summer of 1943" (p. 453). During his second interrogation, this gassing suddenly took place "in the winter of 1942/43" (p. 6881). Even though it was "strictly prohibited" for him as an unauthorized person, he easily managed to get to the gas chamber by getting a ride in the ambulance car (ibidem). Similar to this is another statement in his first interrogation, where he secretly witnesses an execution in a gravel pit by simply "following" the column of the executee and his SS guards "in a few meters distance" (p. 451). According to Böck, the command for the execution of inmates was: "Ready, set, go!" (p. 452).

There are three options: a) the gassings/executions were not secret (that is, Böck is lying in this regard); b) the SS consisted of dim-witted morons who did not follow the most primitive security measures and did not even notice it when somebody followed them only a few meters away into a gravel pit; or c) Böck is lying about these events. Since an execution is not a 100 meter sprint - execution commands are something like "Ready, aim, fire!" - the reader can figure out by himself which case is most likely given regarding Böck.

Another of Böck's allegations fits perfectly into this picture: He claims that one day he was ordered to come with a truck-load of sandwiches to the railroad ramp at Birkenau, where a selection of incoming inmates was taking place, but he eventually had to return again with all of his sandwiches (p. 6884). According to Böck, the reason for this was:

"Because they wanted to be prepared if a commission would come from Switzerland to observe the 'resettlement of the Jews'." (p. 6883)

Böck speculates that those sandwiches were meant to make the commission of the International Red Cross believe that the inmates were treated well. For the same reason, the van used to transport Zyklon B to the gas chamber had allegedly been camouflaged with a Red Cross symbol (ibidem). As if the mighty SS was not in control of whether or not a delegation of the Red Cross would enter the camp, and as if anybody would have been fooled by a few sandwiches into ignoring the allegedly atrocious general conditions in the camp!

On pages 6882f., we find those statements that have been frequently quoted and interpreted as indications that this witness makes false claims:

"Finally, an SS man came, I believe it was a Rottenführer, to our ambulance and got out a gas canister. With this gas canister he then went to a ladder, which stood at the right side of this building, seen from the gate. At the same time, I noticed that he had a gas mask on while climbing the ladder. After he had reached the end of the ladder, he opened the circular tin lid and shook the contents of the canister into the opening. I clearly heard the rattling of the canister against the wall, as he hit it while shaking it out. Simultaneously I saw a brown dust rise through the wall opening. When he had closed the little door again, an indescribable crying began in the chamber. I simply cannot describe how these humans cried. That lasted approximately 8-10 minutes, and then all was silent. A short time afterwards, the door was opened by inmates and one could see a bluish cloud floating over a gigantic pile of corpses." (p. 6882)

"At any rate, I was surprised that the inmate commando which was assigned to remove the bodies, entered the chamber without gas masks, although this blue vapor floated over the corpses, from which I assumed that it was a gas." (S. 6883)

Since Zyklon B does not produce a brown dust when poured out of its cans, and hydrogen cyanide gas is colorless, and the inmate commando cannot have been immune against the same poison gas that killed the victims within a few minutes just a few moments earlier, it is obvious that Böck cannot have seen what he claims to have seen.

But this is not yet all. In the fall of 1941, Böck claims to have accidentally witnessed, how 60 prisoners were gassed in the crematorium I, located in the Auschwitz main camp:

"In the fall of 1941, I observed one evening after my shift at the car pool was over how Ustuf. [SS Untersturmführer] G r a b n e r stopped in front of crematorium a, main camp, with some 60 male Jews, coming from the direction of the train station Auschwitz. Then he drove all Jews into the crematorium by ordering them to go in there. After all Jews had entered, I saw how another SS man stepped onto the crematorium and opened some kind of a shutter. At the same time I heard terrible screams, but this lasted only a short while. Then it was silent." (p. 6886)

This statement is problematic for several reasons:

According to official historiography, there was only one gassing during the fall of 1941, and it allegedly took place in the basement of camp building no. 11 with several hundred Russian POWs as victims.[9] It is the general belief that the mortuary of the old crematorium of the main camp has been redesigned for use as a 'gas chamber' in 1942, hence could not have been used for gassings in late 1941.
The alleged gas chamber of the old crematorium was a relatively large mortuary by its design. According to established historiography, several hundred victims were murdered in it, not just 60.
Böck himself admits that the car pool at Auschwitz, where he worked day in day out for several years, was located just on the other side of the road, near the old crematorium - Böck even added a hand drawn map to this effect to the protocol of his interrogation (p. 6887, map p. 458). How is it that he neither witnessed nor even heard anything about the mass gassings, which allegedly took place in that crematorium during the years 1942-1943 according to orthodox historiography?
Böck tries to balance his general lack of knowledge about what was going on on the other side of the road by claiming that he made the following observation:

"In any case, during the entire time of my presence in Auschwitz I could observe that inmate corpses were cremated in the old crematorium. This decreased somewhat only toward the end of 1944. I could see every day how the flames shot two meters high out of the chimney. It also smelled intensively like burned flesh."

The following comments have to be made about these claims:

The old crematorium in the main camp was taken out of operation after the new crematoria in Birkenau went into operation in spring 1943. In early 1944, the old crematorium was converted into an air raid shelter. Thus, Böck cannot possibly have witnessed cremations at the main camp until the end of 1944.

For technical reasons, no flames can come shooting out of a crematorium chimney. Either Böck lied, or he hallucinated, or he talked himself into believing things he heard from elsewhere.

Coke-fired crematorium chimneys might emit the smell of burning coke, but certainly not the smell of burning flesh.
http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/4/Rudolf468-472.html


And:
Karl Seefeld is another witness, whose very own statement proves him to be a liar. The last sentence of the penultimate paragraph of his statement made on Feb. 17, 1959, reads as follows:

"I saw at least twice, how Boger adjusted the gas for the shower rooms, in which the inmates were gassed, and how he let the gas flow in." (p. 499R)

Bad luck for this witness that according to generally held views Zyklon B was used - hydrogen cyanide absorbed on starch granules. The gas evaporating from these granules could neither be adjusted nor be let to flow anywhere. These granules were allegedly simply thrown into the chambers through openings.

Next we find a handwritten letter by Richard Böck, about whom I reported already elsewhere.[4] Böck's remarks impress primarily by the names he chose for the actors of his atrocity stories: Rosa from Rosenheim, who had been impregnated by an SS man, is shot by her lover while greeting him enthusiastically one morning (501aR), and the inmates Rudi and Ludi, who had planned to flee, are hanged precisely for this (501b). Rosa from Rosenheim and Rudi and Ludi - Böck's fantasy for assigning names was not the best.
http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/2/Rudolf219-223.html

You'll find other "testimony" there as well.
Further analysis:
If we examine the testimonies carefully, we soon discover that they contain a number of scientific and technical impossibilities which hopelessly shatter their probative value. Here are only a few of these absurdities; we will be satisfied in most cases with a single example only.

a) Blue vapour over the bodies of the victims. The witness, Richard Boeck, a lower-ranking SS lorry driver during the war who was considered especially credible by the Auschwitz Trial in Frankfurt (1963-1965), states as follows: (4):

"A short time later (i.e., after the death of the victims) the door was opened by the prisoners, and we could still see a blue vapour floating over a gigantic pile of bodies."

Boeck cannot possibly have seen this blue vapour, since hydrocyanide gas is entirely colourless. Its name comes from the blue colour of the pigment arising from its compound with iron.

b) Blue coloration among the victims. "Holocaust survivor" Milton Buki reports (5):

"Two minutes after opening the doors, we received the order to carry away the bodies, and we loaded them on carts. The bodies were naked, some had blue spots."

Hydrocyanic acid blocks the oxygen supply to the cells. The haemoglobin in the blood can no longer give off oxygen to the cells, and the blood becomes saturated with oxygen, which leads to a red colouring of the skin (6). Buki was a member of the Sonderkommando and in Auschwitz from December 1942. The Sonderkommando allegedly had to drag the bodies out of the gas chambers. Since the gassings allegedly continued until well into Octobre 1944, Buki had almost two years in which to observe that victims of hydrocyanic gas asphyxiation exhibit red coloration, but no, he speaks of blue pigmentation. So does Hilberg's star witness, Filip Mueller (7), who was a member of a Sonderkommando for almost two years. There can be no doubt that Buki and Mueller never saw the body of a person having died of cyanide gas asphyxiation.

c) Impossibly great numbers of victims packed into the gas chamber per square meter. According to star witness Hoess, around 2,000 victims (9), were packed into the gas chambers of Krema II -- the surface area measures 210 square metres (8) -- according to key witness Vrba 3,000 (10), or even 4,000 victims, according to key witness Broad (11), all crammed in at one time. The Nazis would have needed a steam shovel to get them in, and they could have saved the money they spent on Zyklon B (which was expensive).

d) Flames shooting out of the crematory chimneys. Henryk Tauber, Pressac's star witness, tells us the following story (12):

"In general, we burned four or five bodies in one muffle, but we often put more bodies in the ovens... Great numbers of bodies were burned at one time, without the knowledge of the director of the crematorium, whenever the air raid siren went off. The especially high flames shooting out of the chimneys were to attract the attention of the pilots."

Walter Lueftl, former president of the Austrian Federal Chamber of Engineers, and forensic expert at innumerable trials, remarks to this effect:

"Coke is a short-flamed fuel. For this reason, the flames cannot even exit the combustion chamber. Between the oven and chimney, there is an exhaust channel, the flue. The chimney only comes after that. The combustion of short-flamed solid fuels gives off no flames, but only, at the most, hot exhaust gasses at 180 degrees Centigrade; otherwise, the chimney would soon be ruined."
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/hoh/chap9.html


It's obvious that neither the Jewish nor the non-Jewish testimony got any credibility. But it was useful to induce a false memory into the psyche of the German people:
Auschwitz trial ensured that Germany would never forget
Germany was enjoying its postwar economic miracle when the crimes of Auschwitz were first dealt with by a court. The trial, which ended 50 years ago, was a major turning point for victims, war criminals and the public.
http://www.dw.com/en/auschwitz-trial-en ... a-18654790

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Re: Non-Jewish gas chamber testimony ?

Postby hermod » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:22 am)

Hektor wrote:Does anyone else notice that this statement is highly embellished for theatrical effect?


I wouldn't say "highly embellished for theatrical effect" but very detailed for persuasion purposes. Most people mistakenly think that numerous details make a statement true, that a liar wouldn't add/know so many details. No matter that most details make no sense and are even laughable. Most people believe: plenty of details = true story.

Kingfisher wrote:But Vaillant-Couturier is only repeating what she was told. Hers is not firsthand witness testimony.


Not a firsthand witness testimony to the alleged gassings strictly speaking. But a firsthand witness testimony to all kinds of things around the alleged gassings, including the selections for the alleged gas chambers.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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