quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

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cold beer
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Re: quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

Postby cold beer » 2 years 4 months ago (Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:04 pm)

hermod wrote:The channel was newspaper articles and radio broadcasts reporting the joint declaration of mid-December 1942 by 11 "United Nations" (including the big three - UK, USA and USSR) about Hitler's [alleged] "bestial policy of cold blooded extermination". And the source of the 'info' was the Riegner telegram and 2 or 3 additional 'reports' kindly provided to the Allies by some Zionist in Switzerland (Gerhart Riegner and Richard Lichtheim). The 'info' had been released by the founder of US Zionism himself (rabbi Stephen Wise) around 2 weeks before the UN joint declaration mentioned above. And a paper written by US propagandist William Shirer in 1943 show that most US citizens indeed disbelieved that 'info' because they still hadn't forgotten the big lies told by Allied atrocity propagandists about the Germans during WW1.


I had awareness that it was introduced by jew organizations, although I don't possess a detailed knowledge, I do know that the Black Book was one of their earliest efforts.
The point is that it's unfortunate that this excerpt is murky, in fact a reader could interpret it as the OSS announcing it.
I'd like to find citation that would remove any need for interpretation.
And I'd like to strengthen the argument by being able to cite major intelligence successes of the OSS at the time in order to ask how it is that they would then be unaware of a massive extermination program underway.
One case along that line might be Katyn, could the OSS have known about it in shortly afterward, long before the Germans?
These are the type of facts that could bolster and give this it's full impact.

I'm not an adept researcher by any means but I'm going to put some effort into it.

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Re: quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:03 am)

cold beer wrote:I had awareness that it was introduced by jew organizations, although I don't possess a detailed knowledge, I do know that the Black Book was one of their earliest efforts.
The point is that it's unfortunate that this excerpt is murky, in fact a reader could interpret it as the OSS announcing it.
I'd like to find citation that would remove any need for interpretation.


I find that this part of the excerpt is very clear:

As a by-product, the COI and OSS accumulated substantial intelligence about Nazi measures against Jews. In memoirs and other retrospective accounts, however, a number of former OSS officials have disclaimed recognition of the Holocaust at the time.


During WW2, the OSS had a thorough knowledge of the German anti-Jewish policies. But after WW2, a number of wartime OSS officials declared themselves to be "Holocaust deniers" (or more accurately, Holocaust knew-nothings) very similar to the Nazi high officials at the Nuremberg mock trials. In other words, they watched and saw no such a thing as a mass slaughter of Europe's Jews.

cold beer wrote:And I'd like to strengthen the argument by being able to cite major intelligence successes of the OSS at the time in order to ask how it is that they would then be unaware of a massive extermination program underway.
One case along that line might be Katyn, could the OSS have known about it in shortly afterward, long before the Germans?
These are the type of facts that could bolster and give this it's full impact.


This part of your comment reminded me of this past reading:

New Documents Show: Roosevelt colluded with Stalin

September 20, 2012

World War II: Newly released documents from the U.S. National Archives reveal that the U.S. government helped covering up the Soviet 1940 massacre on some 20,000 Poles at Katyn and other places — not just during the war, but even afterwards.

In early 1943, German occupational forces were informed by local peasants that during their brief occupation of eastern Poland between late 1939 and mid-1941, the Soviets had shot thousands of members of the Polish political, intellectual and military elite and had buried some of them in mass graves near the Polish town of Katyn. The Germans formed an investigation committee which included forensic scientists from neutral countries, plus, as witnesses, prisoners of war from enemy nations, among them also a U.S. national. Newly released documents show that this PoW managed to convey what he had seen to the U.S. government using secret radio messages. Hence the Roosevelt administration knew since early 1943 that the German claims about the Soviet massacre were basically correct. (See Randy Herschaft, Vanessa Gera, “AP Exclusive: Memos show US hushed up Soviet crime,” Associated Press, Sept. 10, 2012; this item has been published by basically all major news outlets, as googling it will prove, for instance here.)

But when the Germans published their findings about this Soviet mass murder, the Allied nations reacted with a massive counter propaganda, accusing Germany of committing mass atrocities themselves. Among it was a British claim that at the Auschwitz camp the Germans would kill every single day as many people as they had found at Katyn. The Soviets staged show trials at Kharkov and Krasnodar that accused Germans and their collaborators of having murdered thousands of innocent people while occupying Soviet territory. (See G. Rudolf. T. Dalton, Lectures on the Holocaust, 2nd ed., The Barnes Review, Washington 2010, pp. 257, 271f., 308f.)

[...]

Ripple Effects

The news about Roosevelt’s cover-up of this Soviet crime has yet another repercussion: apparently the United States had an operating network of secret radio transmission stations in German occupied Europe which could be used by U.S. spies and soldiers held in German captivity to relay secret messages. It will be interesting to find out whether those radio transmitters were ever used to convey any messages about GERMAN atrocities, for example in connection with the Holocaust. As far as this writer knows, no such radio messages have so far been released. It is hard to conceive how the U.S. administration would not have been informed about this “crime of the century” while it was allegedly unfolding. Maybe it turns out that Roosevelt covered up this crime, too, because Hitler was his secret ally…


https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t91274 ... st10650380
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:31 am)

3 quotes about the OSS and the 'Holocaust' during WW2...

"I'll never understand how, with all we knew about Germany and its military machine, we knew so little about the concentration camps and the magnitude of the holocaust. We knew in a general way that Jews were being persecuted, that they were being rounded up in occupied countries, and deported to Germany, that they were brought to camps, and that brutality and murder took place at these camps. But few if any comprehended the appalling magnitude of it. It wasn't sufficiently real to stand out from the general brutality and slaughter which is war. There was little talk in London about the concentration camps except as places to which captured agents and resistants were deported if they were not executed on the spot." - William Casey (in the OSS London office from October 1943, director of the CIA in the Reagan administration), book The Secret War Against Hitler (1986) by William J. Casey.

"We remained ignorant of the Holocaust. Yes, I saw our maps of Nazi concentration camps, but none was identified as a death camp. We received no real information on the "final solution." I'm surprised that I did not give it any thought as I had early on always believed that the Nazis were out to do away with the Jews." - Arnold Price (who fled Nazi Germany in 1930s and landed in the Research and Analysis (R&A) branch of the OSS in 1942), Book My Twentieth Century: Recollections of a Public historian (2003) by Arnold H. Price.

"I have asked myself and I have asked R&A colleagues when any of us first became aware of a policy of mass murder as something qualitatively different from the well-recognized viciousness of the concentration camps. OSS presumably received the best possible intelligence, and German-Jewish refugees would have been the last people inclined to ignore or discount reports of a Final Solution. Yet my recollection is that, even in the summer of 1944 when we received with horror the mounting flow of information about the camps, most of us were still thinking of an increase of persecution rather than a new and barbaric policy of genocide. [...] I cannot find R&A colleagues who recall a moment of blazing revelation about the Final Solution." - Arthur Schlesinger Jr. (OSS R&A agent during WW2), Book A Life in the Twentieth Century: Innocent Beginnings, 1917-1950 (2000) by Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

Postby Hektor » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:04 pm)

Little or no evidence? How about the internal report within Allied intelligence services that notifies superiors that their agent have conclusively found out that there is some kind of homicidal gassing program for Jews e.g. in Auschwitz.

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Re: quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:09 pm)

Hektor wrote:Little or no evidence? How about the internal report within Allied intelligence services that notifies superiors that their agent have conclusively found out that there is some kind of homicidal gassing program for Jews e.g. in Auschwitz.

Indeed, the 'Allies' couldn't keep their lies / propaganda straight.
Also, do we have a copy of this "internal report within Allied intelligence services"?

- Hannover

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

Postby Hegwood » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:15 pm)

Hektor wrote:

Little or no evidence? How about the internal report within Allied intelligence services that notifies superiors that their agent have conclusively found out that there is some kind of homicidal gassing program for Jews e.g. in Auschwitz.


Please clarify!

Your post indicates that you think there is believable evidence that there was a program at Auschwitz to gas Jews.

Hegwood

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Re: quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 2 years 4 months ago (Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:22 am)

Hektor? No answer?!

It looks like his account has been hacked. Is there a means of checking this out?
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

Postby Hektor » 2 years 4 months ago (Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:03 pm)

Hegwood wrote:Hektor wrote:

Little or no evidence? How about the internal report within Allied intelligence services that notifies superiors that their agent have conclusively found out that there is some kind of homicidal gassing program for Jews e.g. in Auschwitz.


Please clarify!

Your post indicates that you think there is believable evidence that there was a program at Auschwitz to gas Jews.

No, I don't. My point is that there isn't even such a report where the Allies very own. Intelligence gurus told their superiors: After evaluating all available intelligence sources, we found out that the Germans got an extermination program against Jews running that makes extensive use of gas chambers to kill them. Sure there'd be a lot of reports on concentration camps, even abuses there and of course deportation. But there is no report having an executive stating homicidal gassings as a verified and confirmed fact. If I'm wrong, please show me otherwise.

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Re: quotes for no evidence or little evidence of the 'holocaust'

Postby Hegwood » 2 years 4 months ago (Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:01 pm)

Thanks for the clarification.

I misunderstood your post. I took your first sentence "Little or no evidence?" to effectively mean "What do you mean there is little or no evidence?" followed by an assertion that there existed some internal Allied intelligence report referring to the gassing of jews.

Hegwood


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