Conspiracy what conspiracy?

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borjastick
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Conspiracy what conspiracy?

Postby borjastick » 8 months 3 weeks ago (Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:33 am)

To me a conspiracy is what people claim about the JFK assassination. In other words one group of individuals (mafia, CIA, LBJ etc take your pick) wanted the President dead to forward their own agenda.

So they organised several shooters in Deeley Plaza to make certain he wouldn't survive but for plausible deniability they scooped up the patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald, made him do some of it and then ensured he was arrested and then murdered. Game over, job done.

It's often been said that the holocaust is a conspiracy, but I fail to see how this can be, from either side.

Can anyone enlighten me on how the holocaust could be a conspiracy because I don't see it that way. I see it as a confluence of circumstance that allowed the zionist jews and the Russians to use the concentration camp system and the social persecution of the jews in Germany to their advantage in forming the state of israel.

Can anyone add anything to the 'it's a conspiracy' theory?


'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Conspiracy what conspiracy?

Postby HeiligeSturm » 8 months 3 weeks ago (Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:09 pm)

borjastick wrote:To me a conspiracy is what people claim about the JFK assassination. In other words one group of individuals (mafia, CIA, LBJ etc take your pick) wanted the President dead to forward their own agenda.

So they organised several shooters in Deeley Plaza to make certain he wouldn't survive but for plausible deniability they scooped up the patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald, made him do some of it and then ensured he was arrested and then murdered. Game over, job done.

It's often been said that the holocaust is a conspiracy, but I fail to see how this can be, from either side.

Can anyone enlighten me on how the holocaust could be a conspiracy because I don't see it that way. I see it as a confluence of circumstance that allowed the zionist jews and the Russians to use the concentration camp system and the social persecution of the jews in Germany to their advantage in forming the state of israel.

Can anyone add anything to the 'it's a conspiracy' theory?


This has a lot to do with the [in]famous six million claims before the WWII and Theodor Herzl's book Der Judenstaat which outlines the plan for establishing Israel.
Conspiracy was also the title of HBO movie about "planning" the Holocaust at Wannsee.
There's quite excellent review of the movie.
The Irony of “Conspiracy” by Sword of Elysium
And like with conspiracies, those who try to investigate these conspiracies are often ridiculed, labelled as lunatics, pseudo scientists and so on.
Same thing with Holocaust revisionism. I guess the only difference is that other subjects can be questioned without legal problems.

"All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe

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Re: Conspiracy what conspiracy?

Postby permanent_denial » 8 months 3 weeks ago (Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:49 pm)

borjastick wrote:To me a conspiracy is what people claim about the JFK assassination. In other words one group of individuals (mafia, CIA, LBJ etc take your pick) wanted the President dead to forward their own agenda.

So they organised several shooters in Deeley Plaza to make certain he wouldn't survive but for plausible deniability they scooped up the patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald, made him do some of it and then ensured he was arrested and then murdered. Game over, job done.

It's often been said that the holocaust is a conspiracy, but I fail to see how this can be, from either side.

Can anyone enlighten me on how the holocaust could be a conspiracy because I don't see it that way. I see it as a confluence of circumstance that allowed the zionist jews and the Russians to use the concentration camp system and the social persecution of the jews in Germany to their advantage in forming the state of israel.

Can anyone add anything to the 'it's a conspiracy' theory?


The Holocaust narrative, as alleged, accounts for what would be one of the most massive conspiracies ever executed. It asserts that one of the largest government programs of Nazi Germany was conducted fully off the books, with no budget, no orders or paper trail (or one that was totally obliterated with 100% completeness), no verifiable remnants of the supporting infrastructure, and for which all other physical evidence was successfully destroyed, buried, or incinerated and then buried, of which there would have been millions of indications otherwise. In addition, the "theory" that promotes its validity as a historical event relies, much like some other notable "conspiracy theories," on eyewitness testimony primarily (anyone remember smoke rising from the grassy knoll?).

The contrasting view might also conceivably be deemed a "conspiracy theory," in this case the story being that a few members of the Allied forces and the Jewish community together, each driven by their own agenda, decided on a narrative based on a particular set of lies that would be used in the prosecution of war crimes subsequent WW2 against the vanquished enemy.

Which seems like its execution would be easier to conceal?

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Re: Conspiracy what conspiracy?

Postby hermod » 8 months 3 weeks ago (Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:56 pm)

permanent_denial wrote:The Holocaust narrative, as alleged, accounts for what would be one of the most massive conspiracies ever executed. It asserts that one of the largest government programs of Nazi Germany was conducted fully off the books, with no budget, no orders or paper trail (or one that was totally obliterated with 100% completeness), no verifiable remnants of the supporting infrastructure, and for which all other physical evidence was successfully destroyed, buried, or incinerated and then buried, of which there would have been millions of indications otherwise. In addition, the "theory" that promotes its validity as a historical event relies, much like some other notable "conspiracy theories," on eyewitness testimony primarily (anyone remember smoke rising from the grassy knoll?).

The contrasting view might also conceivably be deemed a "conspiracy theory," in this case the story being that a few members of the Allied forces and the Jewish community together, each driven by their own agenda, decided on a narrative based on a particular set of lies that would be used in the prosecution of war crimes subsequent WW2 against the vanquished enemy.

Which seems like its execution would be easier to conceal?


I'd rather call it a tender offering best plausibility (or rather least laughability) for politically-motivated lies.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Conspiracy what conspiracy?

Postby hermod » 8 months 3 weeks ago (Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:57 am)

Another part of the Holofraud conspiracy is the one that says everybody but some Zionist activists did close to nothing to stop the slaughter while it was allegedly taking place. After the war, various kinds of apologists had to ask for forgiveness because of the inaction of various WW2 characters and groups. Some people apologized for the inaction of Roosevelt during the 'Holocaust,' others for the inaction of Churchill, others for the inaction of the Pope & the Vatican, others for the inaction of the Red Cross, others for the inaction of the Allied armies (Why didn't we bomb Auschwitz, blah blah blah), and some for the inaction of a number of non-Zionist Jewish organizations. Some people even blamed the alleged victims themselves for their inaction (because they had quietly gone to the alleged Nazi slaughterhouses like sheep). During the war, the Holofraud was loudly condemned by some leaders for traditional atrocity propaganda purposes. But the same leaders didn't lift a single finger in order to stop or impede the alleged slaughter or to rescue the allegedly-threatened victims. FDR established the War Refugee Board, but he did it only very late and under strong Zionist pressure. And since actions speaks louder than words, Occam's razor leaves only 2 options: 1) No slaughter of European Jewry was taking place at that time, the 'Holocaust' was just demonizing atrocity propaganda against the enemy of the day, and almost everybody behaved accordingly during the war; 2) An international anti-Semitic conspiracy at all levels (from the man in the street to US president) made almost everybody behave in such a way that the massacre was not impeded or stopped. Option number 2 is a super-cynical conspiracy theory...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Conspiracy what conspiracy?

Postby permanent_denial » 8 months 3 weeks ago (Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:31 pm)

hermod wrote:Another part of the Holofraud conspiracy is the one that says everybody but some Zionist activists did close to nothing to stop the slaughter while it was allegedly taking place. After the war, various kinds of apologists had to ask for forgiveness because of the inaction of various WW2 characters and groups. Some people apologized for the inaction of Roosevelt during the 'Holocaust,' others for the inaction of Churchill, others for the inaction of the Pope & the Vatican, others for the inaction of the Red Cross, others for the inaction of the Allied armies (Why didn't we bomb Auschwitz, blah blah blah), and some for the inaction of a number of non-Zionist Jewish organizations. Some people even blamed the alleged victims themselves for their inaction (because they had quietly gone to the alleged Nazi slaughterhouses like sheep). During the war, the Holofraud was loudly condemned by some leaders for traditional atrocity propaganda purposes. But the same leaders didn't lift a single finger in order to stop or impede the alleged slaughter or to rescue the allegedly-threatened victims. FDR established the War Refugee Board, but he did it only very late and under strong Zionist pressure. And since actions speaks louder than words, Occam's razor leaves only 2 options: 1) No slaughter of European Jewry was taking place at that time, the 'Holocaust' was just demonizing atrocity propaganda against the enemy of the day, and almost everybody behaved accordingly during the war; 2) An international anti-Semitic conspiracy at all levels (from the man in the street to US president) made almost everybody behave in such a way that the massacre was not impeded or stopped. Option number 2 is a super-cynical conspiracy theory...


Actually, to add to this discussion, Alison Weir noted in her book "Against Our Better Judgement" (text of which can be found at the following link)

http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2013/10/ ... ip-part-i/

that Zionist pressure is what convinced FDR that there was no need to accept European Jews under the Nazi controlled territories as refugees. She quotes Morris Ernst:

Perhaps the most extreme case of Zionist exploitation of anti-Semitism to further their cause came during the rise of Adolf Hitler. Historians have documented that Zionists sabotaged efforts to find safe havens for Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany in order to convince the world that Jews could only be safe in a Jewish state.[60]

When FDR made several efforts to provide havens for Nazi refugees, Zionists opposed these projects because they did not include Palestine.

Morris Ernst, FDR’s international envoy for refugees, wrote in his memoir that when he worked to help find refuge for those fleeing Hitler, “…active Jewish leaders decried, sneered and then attacked me as if I were a traitor. At one dinner party I was openly accused of furthering this plan of freer immigration [into the U.S.] in order to undermine political Zionism… Zionist friends of mine opposed it.”[61]

Ernst wrote that he found the same fanatical reaction among almost all Jewish groups, whose leaders, he found, were “little concerned about human blood if it is not their own.”[62]

FDR finally gave up, telling Ernst: “We can’t put it over because the dominant vocal Jewish leadership of America won’t stand for it.”[63]

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Re: Conspiracy what conspiracy?

Postby hermod » 8 months 3 weeks ago (Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:20 am)

permanent_denial wrote:Actually, to add to this discussion, Alison Weir noted in her book "Against Our Better Judgement" (text of which can be found at the following link)

http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2013/10/ ... ip-part-i/

that Zionist pressure is what convinced FDR that there was no need to accept European Jews under the Nazi controlled territories as refugees. She quotes Morris Ernst:

Perhaps the most extreme case of Zionist exploitation of anti-Semitism to further their cause came during the rise of Adolf Hitler. Historians have documented that Zionists sabotaged efforts to find safe havens for Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany in order to convince the world that Jews could only be safe in a Jewish state.[60]

When FDR made several efforts to provide havens for Nazi refugees, Zionists opposed these projects because they did not include Palestine.

Morris Ernst, FDR’s international envoy for refugees, wrote in his memoir that when he worked to help find refuge for those fleeing Hitler, “…active Jewish leaders decried, sneered and then attacked me as if I were a traitor. At one dinner party I was openly accused of furthering this plan of freer immigration [into the U.S.] in order to undermine political Zionism… Zionist friends of mine opposed it.”[61]

Ernst wrote that he found the same fanatical reaction among almost all Jewish groups, whose leaders, he found, were “little concerned about human blood if it is not their own.”[62]

FDR finally gave up, telling Ernst: “We can’t put it over because the dominant vocal Jewish leadership of America won’t stand for it.”[63]


Morris Ernst was telling the truth. But since the Zionists were the main originators of the Holocaust 'reports,' he was reasoning within a false paradigm. There was no "human blood" shed and sacrificed. There were only Zionist activists with very little time left to reach their goal of Jewish statehood in Palestine. But such a Zionist struggle against Jewish mass immigration into the U.S. wasn't introduced by the Zionists of the 1940's anyway. One of the main foes of Zionism from its inception was Assimilationism and 2 hotspots of Assimilationism were the United States and the British Empire. There, many Eastern Jews dropped their Jewishness (in the Zionist views) in favor of personal interests through integration, assimilation. The Zionists of the late 19th century and early 20th century regarded that as a catastrophe because the secular demographic and cultural reservoir of Jewry was being drained at high speed and directed to areas where Jewishness was being annihilated. The Zionist solution offered a place where the Eastern Jews could live without without anti-Semitic restrictions (unlike in the Russian Pale of Settlement) and without dropping their own Jewishness (unlike in American and British lands).
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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