Generally accepted revisionist views?

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Rmbrmb21
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Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby Rmbrmb21 » 2 years 7 months ago (Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:28 pm)

Hello all,

I finally made an account after a few months of casually browsing the site as well as other revisionist sites. I am no expert on holocaust revision and my personal beliefs on the matter have swayed from side to side over the last couple of years when I decided to take an interest in 3rd Reich history.

As you would suspect, I know a good deal about the official story you get taught in middle school and high school. Anywhere from 5-6M Jews killed by various means while under the harsh rule of Nazi Germany on orders from Adolf Hitler. As well as another few million non-Jews killed with the most malign of all methods being the gas chambers. Auschwitz is often touted as the center for this mass extermination plan, immortalized in several well made films. Other lesser death camps like Belzec, Sobibor, and so on have been neglected because the Nazis wanted to hide their deeds by destroying the sites. Likewise, they destroyed crucial documents pertaining to the death count and methods used. All of this being endlessly verified by eyewitnesses who always speak the truth, even if they lie.

Obviously, this isn't what I'm looking for. As a natural skeptic I believed almost none of this right off the bat, but I have been torn between accepting it and rejecting it over the past couple of years. Browsing the various topics on this site can be difficult for a novice like myself to wrap my head around. I dive into a specific topic and get loads of information and even more questions.

From what I have seen there isn't a thread with generally accepted revisionist views. Each thread is usually a few very active accounts debunking a story related to the holocaust or discussing an erroneous assumption the average person makes about the holocaust. I understand that some people believe in what's called the "holocaust lite" version of the story, others don't believe any of it, but I would like to see just a few upfront statements everyone could agree on.

This would help with newer people like myself to find a starting point rather than having to build one ourselves from scratch. Which I assume is what the end goal of this website is, helping people to see the truth. I enjoy research to a certain point, but I have a life and can't devote dozens of hours a week to studying every facet of holocaust revision.

So, simply my question is what are the points revisionist can agree on?

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby Hannover » 2 years 7 months ago (Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:27 pm)

But since you are in effect the accuser, please show us the proof of the 'official story that was taught to you'.

Please actually show us excavations of the enormous mass graves that are alleged with their alleged contents shown and verified. Recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor. Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.
Revisionists do not believe these mass graves exist.

And how can you say the documents have been destroyed if the official story say it's 'the most documented event in history'?
Revisionists do not believe there are any documents which prove the 'holocaust' storyline.

Given that the story generally proclaims '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers', why is that some "holocaust scholars" claim different numbers?
It appears that they can't come to conclusions that "everyone could agree on".
Revisionists do not believe in the impossible gas chambers, nor the wild & absurdly laughable numbers that are alleged.
Revisionists do not believe that 'the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on' as the storyline proclaims.

Welcome, Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
Last edited by Hannover on Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby flimflam » 2 years 7 months ago (Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:29 pm)

Rmbrmb21 wrote: So, simply my question is what are the points revisionist can agree on?


It's an excellent question, but I don't think there is an answer. This is an issue you have to investigate for yourself, or find one or more writers/videos/websites you trust.

Here's a site you can trust - :), '
http://www.holohoax101.org

See also this vid, it begins 'The holocaust is a preposterous hoax ...


See also David Cole Interviews Frantisek Piper, The Last Days of the Big Lie, and Questioning the Holocaust, all on YouTube.

It would be desirable for CODOH to publish a version of events as a permanent part of this site - it would not have to be authoritative or exhaustive - but a starting point. But, I don't see that as happening.

IMO the bible on the subject is 'The Hoax of the Twentieth Century' by Butz.

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby Hannover » 2 years 7 months ago (Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:38 pm)

"but I don't think there is an answer"

Yes there are answers which can generally be said of knowledgeable Revisionists, from my previous post:

Revisionists do not believe the alleged enormous mass graves exist.
Revisionists do not believe there are any documents which prove the 'holocaust' storyline.
Revisionists do not believe in the impossible gas chambers, nor the wild & absurdly laughable numbers that are alleged.
Revisionists do not believe that 'the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on' as the storyline proclaims.

But I want specifics from Rmbrmb21, as mentioned in my previous post.

- Hannover

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”.
Arthur Schopenhauer
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby borjastick » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:35 am)

I agree with the points Hannover made above but would add a couple more:

Revisionists accept that socially jews in germany were targeted and persecuted, no one believes they weren't. They had declared commercial war on Germany before the war. They painted a target on their backs.

We accept that the camp system existed and jews were one small part of the interned community within it.

We accept that in some camps conditions were hard, especially once the war reached a critical point. That food and supplies became scarce and that typhus broke out and killed many inmates, though not all were jews.

We believe Treblinka, Sobibor and Chelmno? were transit camps. There is no evidence whatsoever that these camps were where hundreds of thousands were murdered.

Similarly we do not accept Auschwitz was a centre for mass murder but more an internment and work camp on a massive scale. No evidence backs up the claims of gas chambers in fact quite the opposite. No coke or fuel supplies sufficient to burn 1.25m bodies were ever sent there nor were mass graves of thousands of tons of human cremains discovered.

Lastly the so called 'survivors' and 'witnesses' to genocide have all to a man either spouted nonsense or don't follow the party line. Most have actually either said they didn't see anything untoward happening or made such ridiculous claims so as to be completely unbelievable. The grand master of the holocaust, Elie Wiesel never mentioned gas chambers in his masterpiece, Night.

Apart from the above it's all true...

Now, what is it that you want to believe about the official narrative?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby hermod » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:59 am)

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby ginger » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:40 am)

Hi Rmbrmb21 -

Here is a good list, a summary of convincing points of revision, and one of the threads here on the forum - It's called Holocaust or Holohoax: 21 items or answers, I forget the exact words.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11016#p82838

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby ginger » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:45 am)

Its called Holocaust or Holohoax: Twenty-One Amazing Facts.

Try this link - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11016&p=82850#p82850

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby ginger » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:49 am)


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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby Rmbrmb21 » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:50 pm)

Hannover wrote:But since you are in effect the accuser, please show us the proof of the 'official story that was taught to you'.

Please actually show us excavations of the enormous mass graves that are alleged with their alleged contents shown and verified. Recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor. Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.
Revisionists do not believe these mass graves exist.

And how can you say the documents have been destroyed if the official story say it's 'the most documented event in history'?
Revisionists do not believe there are any documents which prove the 'holocaust' storyline.

Given that the story generally proclaims '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers', why is that some "holocaust scholars" claim different numbers?
It appears that they can't come to conclusions that "everyone could agree on".
Revisionists do not believe in the impossible gas chambers, nor the wild & absurdly laughable numbers that are alleged.
Revisionists do not believe that 'the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on' as the storyline proclaims.

Welcome, Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.


We are in agreement that the burden of proof rests on the accuser, but doesn't seem to be the case when dealing with the holocaust. You're just supposed to accept everything as they tell it.

Now, I have no idea where excavations of such mass graves have been done, if they have at all. From what I understand, there have been a couple of graves with something like 5-10 bodies found near the Reinhardt camps, but never thousands at a time. The excuse is that they are there but it would be immoral to disturb their graves.

However, I'm not blind to the fact that this is significant ammunition for revisionists, and is also a reason I lean the way of revision as of now. But there is that old problem of the 1-2M or so that were "sent east", never to return, or at least not that I know of to return. And total dismissal of all the claims seems like a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

As for documentation, it does sound fishy for there to essentially be no documents in existence detailing a mass extermination plan. A little too convenient that they were "all destroyed" like I was taught. But then there are a few pieces that get thrown around as proof, and I have yet to find proper refutation of them. Chiefly, the Wansee Protocols and Goebbels' diary that says something about liquidation of a percentage of Jews. I can't quote them to you exactly, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about and can provide an answer to them.

The exact number according to mainstream historians does fluctuate, but is never reduced below 4M. The method of execution still seems to heavily rely on gassings, from what I was taught, and the role of Hitler is never to be forgotten. Their story more or less is consistent but very simple and therefore doesn't get altered too much. It's one of the reasons I have been given to believe the story in the past, their consistency in the overall story.

I will continue to research any evidence I can find here, and thank you for welcoming me.

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby k0nsl » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:34 pm)

Here is another ‘holocaust’ summary written in 2001 or 2002. Excerpt:

Ten thousand museums, ten thousand “survivor” eyewitness testimonies, ten thousand TV documentaries, ten thousand Hollywood movies and ten thousand newspaper and magazine articles would not make a lie a truth.

The promoters of the orthodox story would be wise to bulldoze Auschwitz rather than preserve it, for the forensic evidence that is there has been a bonanza for the revisionists.

Full article: https://k0nsl.org/blog/detox/holocaut-summary/


I hope that helps in your quest for historical truth.

Best wishes,
-k0nsl

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby Hannover » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:26 pm)

1. However, I'm not blind to the fact that this is significant ammunition for revisionists, and is also a reason I lean the way of revision as of now. But there is that old problem of the 1-2M or so that were "sent east", never to return, or at least not that I know of to return. And total dismissal of all the claims seems like a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

2. As for documentation, it does sound fishy for there to essentially be no documents in existence detailing a mass extermination plan. A little too convenient that they were "all destroyed" like I was taught. But then there are a few pieces that get thrown around as proof, and I have yet to find proper refutation of them. Chiefly, the Wansee Protocols and Goebbels' diary that says something about liquidation of a percentage of Jews. I can't quote them to you exactly, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about and can provide an answer to them.

3. The exact number according to mainstream historians does fluctuate, but is never reduced below 4M. The method of execution still seems to heavily rely on gassings, from what I was taught, and the role of Hitler is never to be forgotten. Their story more or less is consistent but very simple and therefore doesn't get altered too much. It's one of the reasons I have been given to believe the story in the past, their consistency in the overall story.


1. Those 1-2 million that you refer to were supposedly killed and placed into enormous mass graves in very centralized locations that Jews claim to know the locations of. That's where they supposedly went to.
So where are the human remains of the alleged 1-2 million Jews that supposedly exist in these alleged enormous mass graves that Jews claim?
The onus is upon the accuser of these '1-2M'
Jews also need to explain what happened to the outbound train records which conveniently disappeared. It would not have served the Germans interest to have gotten rid of them while leaving the inbound records behind.

2. What about the dodgy Wannsee minutes do you find to be proof of the 'holocaust' storyline? We have some excellent threads already about Wannsee, I suggest you post to one of them.
Same with the shaky Goebbels diary. Once again, if the narrative as alleged was true and supported by Wannsee or Goebbels, then there would be physical evidence galore, but there is not. Quite the contrary. Again, these few examples:
900,000 allegedly buried at Treblinka.
1,250,000 at Auschwitz
250,000 at Sobibor
34,000 alleged at Babi Yar
More 'answers' are contained in existing threads, avail yourself.

3. As to the inconsistency of the 'holocaust', note that Auschwitz was originally said to be the location of 4M murders, now it's been changed to ca 1.5M, but the impossible 6M stays in place.
Dachau & Buchenwald were originally said to have been huge gassing centers, that has been changed.
The Reinhardt Camps were originally said to have gassed Jews using diesel engines, that has been changed to gasoline when it was shown that diesel would have been impossible as alleged.
Recall soap being made from Jews, now dropped after Revisionists debunked the claim.
Recall human skin lampshades, now avoided after Revisionists debunked the claim.
Look at Nuremberg if you really want to see what the original claims were vs. what the claims are now. Very different, consistent not.
You gotta love the 'Treblinka steam chambers proof', and Katyn Forrest that was 'proven' to be a German crime, now known & accepted as a USSR mass murder crime, just to name a few.

recommended:
Wannsee Conference minutes debunked
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1647
and:
The Wannsee Conference Protocol
Anatomy of a Fabrication
http://codoh.com/library/document/934/
and:
The embarrassing high school-like drama of Nazi human skin lampshades & shrunken heads stagecraft is absolutely exposed here for the fraud that it is.
Buchenwald—A Dumb Dumb Portrayal Of Evil
By DenierBud
http://codoh.com/library/document/1529/
and:
'Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111

- Hannover

Jews created fake Jewish graves
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10337
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby Hektor » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:59 pm)

Rmbrmb21 wrote:...

We are in agreement that the burden of proof rests on the accuser, but doesn't seem to be the case when dealing with the holocaust. You're just supposed to accept everything as they tell it.
The burden of proof is with anyone introducing a new positive hypothesis - It's much heavier on an accuser of course for a couple of reasons. What you see there is the "consensus" or "authority" fallacy, which is quite common human behavior. It nevertheless doesn't provide any proof of the claim itself.
Rmbrmb21 wrote:Now, I have no idea where excavations of such mass graves have been done, if they have at all. From what I understand, there have been a couple of graves with something like 5-10 bodies found near the Reinhardt camps, but never thousands at a time. The excuse is that they are there but it would be immoral to disturb their graves.
There was some scratching in the ground done, that didn't yield anything surprising to Revisionists. The "moral" or "pious excuse" doesn't hold any water. The claim they make is so monstrous that none of those excuses can hold any water. Besides that wouldn't mass grave excavation serve not only a scientific purpose, but also help with clarifying the fate of missing people?

No the excuses are there for a good reason - There is nothing worth showing, hence the reluctance of doing serious empirical research work.

Rmbrmb21 wrote:However, I'm not blind to the fact that this is significant ammunition for revisionists, and is also a reason I lean the way of revision as of now. But there is that old problem of the 1-2M or so that were "sent east", never to return, or at least not that I know of to return. And total dismissal of all the claims seems like a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Who says they "never returned"? And if they didn't that won't mean they were gassed. From 1945 onward this was all under Soviet occupation again. Meaning that there wasn't any transparency at all.
Rmbrmb21 wrote:As for documentation, it does sound fishy for there to essentially be no documents in existence detailing a mass extermination plan. A little too convenient that they were "all destroyed" like I was taught. But then there are a few pieces that get thrown around as proof, and I have yet to find proper refutation of them. Chiefly, the Wansee Protocols and Goebbels' diary that says something about liquidation of a percentage of Jews. I can't quote them to you exactly, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about and can provide an answer to them.


As pointed out this has all discussed elsewhere on the forum. Both Wannsee protocol and typed Goebbels diary pages are somewhat dubious sources. There is good proof that the Wannsee protocol is a forged document as well.

Rmbrmb21 wrote:The exact number according to mainstream historians does fluctuate, but is never reduced below 4M. The method of execution still seems to heavily rely on gassings, from what I was taught, and the role of Hitler is never to be forgotten. Their story more or less is consistent but very simple and therefore doesn't get altered too much. It's one of the reasons I have been given to believe the story in the past, their consistency in the overall story.

I will continue to research any evidence I can find here, and thank you for welcoming me.


That there is disagreement on figures isn't really the issue. The issue is that those figures are all sucked out of the thumb. The whole narrative bases on muddied waters, partially stemming from war time propaganda and from the fact that the Historians guild involved in "Holocaust Studies" are all somewhat biased in their approaches and bash all opposition as political biased towards NS, antisemitism, apologetic etc. That's a bit too easy for my taste. Unnecessary, if they had hard evidence for their claims. But there is a lot at stake for them. For one they'd loose their lucrative jobs, when they argue the opposite. And if it's general accepted that Holocaust is just a propaganda ploy, the funding of Holocaust Historians would be seriously cut as well. They'd basically have to apply for new jobs as history teachers at public schools, not something a lot of PhDed historians would aspire to. And then there is the embarrassment of having believed and taught a lie for decades.

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby hermod » 2 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:00 pm)

Rmbrmb21 wrote:But there is that old problem of the 1-2M or so that were "sent east", never to return, or at least not that I know of to return.


Why would the Soviets, the Allies or the Zionists have reported a mass migration of millions of European Jews to Palestine/Israel, the United States and other lands? Ditto for a postwar settlement of numerous Jews from Western & Central Europe in Soviet lands. All of them (the Soviets, the Allies & the Zionists) had based their own WW2 propaganda on the alleged mass slaughter of European Jews by the Nazis after all. Neither the countries of departure (Europe) nor the countries of arrival (Israel, USA, UK, etc.) had any interest in reporting such migrations. They even had major interests in not doing it. Imagine what would have happened and what would be believed today if the Turkish & Greek authorities had had any interest in not reporting the 2 million people uprooted and transferred in both directions (from Turkey to Greece and from Greece to Turkey) after WW1 and/or even in claiming that the other side had just slaughtered their fellows.

And why would a number of Jews have returned to lands where they had been hated & persecuted for centuries when offered the opportunity to settle and live in other lands? Any Jew preferring the anti-Semitic cities of Poland, Germany or Hungary to the sunny beaches of Tel Aviv or Miami, would have been a fool if I'm asked.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Generally accepted revisionist views?

Postby cold beer » 2 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:32 am)

hermod wrote:Summary by Germar Rudolf:

Image
http://incogman.net/wp-content/uploads/ ... -CLAIM.jpg


The German's had no choice but to put Jews and/or communists in ghettos and/or camps.


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