Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

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Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby Darkshine » 1 year 6 months ago (Thu May 18, 2017 3:04 pm)

My formerly-red pilled friend has been attempting to disprove Eric Hunt (come back to us, please!) and denierbud. He provided articles from HDOT, that were little more than virtual signalling, disguised as facts. Literally. First sentence of the rebuttal: "The FACTS are: In Auschwitz-Birkenau, the authorities had no respect for the dead and did not abide by civilian rules of cremation. They burned multiple bodies at once and the process was continuous. It is a false comparison to equate the process of cremation in Auschwitz-Birkenau with that of civilian crematoria."

I don't know about you, but in my book, facts are supported by evidence that proves the claim. Not so on HDOT! In fact, it only took me 5 seconds to prove they lied in the presentation of their 'proof' that the cremation ovens' own maker puts the time of total cremation of a body at 25 minutes.

"The instructions from Topf & Sons for their double muffle furnaces envisaged that a body would be added in the oven during the last 20 minutes before the last one was fully cremated. “As soon as the remains of the bodies have fallen from the chamotte grid to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled forward towards the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they can be left for a further twenty minutes to be fully consumed . . . In the meantime, further bodies can be introduced one after the other into the chambers.”[10]

According to Topf’s calculations this would result in a 25-minute burning cycle for each body.[11]"


A new body can be added in the "last 20 minutes" of the previous burn cycle, after it is already so cremated, the remains fall through a grid, and continue burning for another 20 minutes. "In the last 20 minutes." At the very least, this means that it would have had to take 40 minutes before it fell through and burned for another 20 minutes. That is 60 minutes total. More likely, it took longer. However they go on to further obfuscate the truth by claiming: "According to Topf’s calculations this would result in a 25-minute burning cycle for each body.[11]" Which they have already disproven by their preceding paragraph! And this does nothing to prove that the ovens (with extremely narrow openings, as far as I can tell) could accommodate 4-5 stacked bodies at once, let alone that this would let it burn within the same time. They actually make the claim that burning multiple bodies at a time makes it more efficient and burns less fuel. Fat helps it burn too, according to them. They don't supply the evidence to back up any of these claims. Their footnotes were apparently linked to an archive that was removed on HDOT.

Gee, I wonder why?


https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/a ... omparison/



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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby Hannover » 1 year 6 months ago (Thu May 18, 2017 6:30 pm)

Darkshine,

During interrogation, SS Prüfer, builder of the typhus abatement ovens at Auschwitz which were heavily used during the well known huge epidemics, said:

I spoke about the enormous strain on the overused furnaces. I told Chief Engineer Sander: I am worried whether the furnaces can stand the excessive usage. In my presence two cadavers were pushed into one muffle instead of one cadaver. The furnaces could not stand the strain.

- From the interrogations of Topf engineers by the Soviet SMERSH between 1946 and 1948. The records were published by Gerald Fleming.

Also, this previous post by yours truly utterly demolishes the entire impossible 'gassings at Auschwitz/Birkenau' nonsense:
Below I have posted what the 'holocaust' storyline claims about the alleged gassings at Auschwitz/Birkenau.
I have commented as the story moves along, in essence the claims are simply impossible.

Note that I have also added this model of what the inside of one of the 'gas chambers' is claimed to have looked like at end of an alleged gassing (up to 2000 per batch), an analysis of this model follows my text below.

Image

The two main 'gas chambers at Auschwitz / Birkenau were exactly the same, supposedly in Kremas II & III. So let's play along with the storyline. Up to 2000 Jews were supposedly gassed until dead, then they were supposedly taken via an elevator to the crematorium directly above.

Fact: as seen in the plans, this elevator is hand drawn, and is only 4 ft X 9 ft. How in the world could 2000 Jews have been loaded onto a 4 ft x 9 ft. hand drawn elevator in just a few minutes? Remember, the storyline says that the gassings and resultant cremations were non-stop for much of the period in question.

We supposedly have another batch of 2000 Jews waiting outside, supposedly being tricked into thinking they were about to receive showers. It would have been impossible to disentangle all the supposedly dead Jews and load 2000 of them onto to this postage stamp of an elevator, hoist them by hand up to the crematory 'ovens' in just minutes.
And this repeated process meant that the crematory ovens above would not have been capable of cremating them in the time alleged, which meant a build-up, a backlog occurred.
The storyline even states that the backlog of the to-be-cremated-gassed-Jews required stacking them outside. Once again, the alleged 2000 Jews were outside in full view of this laughable backlog claim, but supposedly they still thought they were getting 'showers'. Of course, timely aerial reconnaissance photos show nothing of the kind.

Furthermore, while the Jews were waiting outside, the storyline says that a SS man with a gas mask climbed upon the roof of the Kremas (only maybe 18 inches, or close to it, above the ground, Kremas II & III were largely underground) and dropped Zyklon-B granules into a container and lowered it down into the 'holes' in the roof, into the morgues which were supposedly converted into a gas chamber. The waiting 2000 Jews would have a clear view of the man on the roof's activity, yet these 2000 Jews were supposedly not concerned and still thought they were going to get innocent showers. The storyline is utterly ridiculous.

We're not done.

The Zyklon-B pesticide granules took/take hours to complete the outgassing of their cyanide load. The storyline says that this same SS man on the roof, supposedly wearing a highly visible gas mask, withdrew the container up from the 'gas chambers' in just minutes. Remember, the Zyklon-B pesticide granules were allegedly dumped and lowered into the 'gas chambers'. And since we know that the Zyklon-B pesticide would have taken hours to finish releasing it's cyanide load we have a situation where anyone in the entire area would have been vulnerable to gassing.
Yes, the storyline also says that there were vents which were used to remove the gas, but then we are still in a situation where the entire area is vulnerable to cyanide. Not to mention that this certainly would have been noticed by the alleged waiting 2000 Jews. And where does this SS man in a gas mask put the outgassing Zyklon-B pesticide granules which he has supposedly withdrawn, which would be releasing cyanide for hours?

The entire, bizarre story is unsustainable with even the slightest scrutiny. It's no wonder why Jewish supremacists trot out senile, lying 'survivors' (who wouldn't have even survived if the tall tales were true) for emotional impact. No wonder that there are Thought Crime laws against examining this absurd process. 'House of cards' is an understatement.

As for it being easy to ventilate, move corpses, clean, bring in the next batch, and generally achieve what is alleged I also suggest:
'ONE PICTURE = 1000 WORDS'
viewtopic.php?t=2651
Here's the initial post by ASMarques' in that thread:

"*** THE GREAT GAS CHAMBER TRAFFIC JAM ***

This would be the one picture I would choose for a crash-course in Holocaust awareness for the intelligent young, lest they forget. Much better than collecting millions of buttons, soda tabs etc.

Image

This is the scale model of Krema II in the Auschwitz Museum, apparently placed behind a glass protection in order to prevent the small dolls being stolen by visitors.

Key to the image:

0 - Reflection of the window on the opposite side of the room.

1 - Underground gallery where many hundreds of victims at a time got undressed for the fake showers in room number 2. According to some Holocaust scholars, this gallery is also supposed to have had fake showers installed in it, just to confuse the undressing victims.

2 - Underground gas chamber, called simply "morgue" or "mortuary cellar" in all German documents and blueprints, in order to fool the future generations of scholars looking for the mysteriously vanished Jewish race. This is where many hundreds of victims were gassed at a time, in a round-the-clock mass murder industrial process by Zyklon B, the same product used to preserve human lives by killing lice (unless the witnesses are lying or very, very confused).

3 - Small elevator bringing daily many thousands of gassed corpses from the underground chamber to the crematories at ground level. Known to the fun-loving SS as "The Little Elevator that Could".

4 - Crematory ovens where many thousands of corpses a day were instantly vaporized, without even having to wait for some heat to dissipate before each door opening, contrary to the ovens in your run-of-the-mill crematory. Alas, the technology of the ovens was one of the best kept secrets in the Reich (unless they were ordinary ovens operated by miracle) and no one has been able to duplicate it.

5 - The famous chimneys, producing lots of smoke, contrary to the chimneys on your run-of-the-mill crematory that produce none. This is attributed to the twisted minds of the German guards who attempted to hide their crimes from the curious in the neighbourhood by using dense curtains of artificial smoke.

Now that you know which room is which, don't let anyone distract your gaze away from the image. Picture the gold-mining brigades, struggling through the corpse-scape, trying not to absorb any cyanide residues trapped among the still palpitating bodies, in order to perform their difficult tasks, such as inspecting body orifices, pulling teeth off, smoking cigarettes and eating sandwiches (according to the Höss testimony).

Then comes the most important part. Wait for a few seconds, take a deep breath, and picture the enormous round-the-clock traffic jam at point number 3, during the process of emptying the gas chamber of bodies, through the small elevator room, with or without (as you prefer) the folks next door waiting, soap in hand, for their shower.

Finally, ask your teacher to point the place, any place, where all those typhus dead were deposited while the live folks were being gassed in the gas chamber the Germans called "a morgue".

If you get a satisfactory answer, please let me know."

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth."
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby ginger » 1 year 6 months ago (Fri May 19, 2017 11:50 am)

In order for the Nazis to keep up with the mass murder of Jews at Auschwitz, they need to be ready with a huge complex of over 400 cremation ovens - not 40 - and such a huge complex would have been impossible to hide.

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby Tommo » 1 year 6 months ago (Fri May 19, 2017 6:41 pm)

I just had the same drama, some guy presented my with HDOT claiming we're all shills and they've found the mass graves everywhere all over the place (Einsatzgruppen), siting a particular one (I forget the town). How can you explain to an ordinary person the proper perspective. And of course he wasn't able to provide me with a photo of one, but the site dropped the relevant Einsatz Ops report of course.
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby ginger » 1 year 6 months ago (Tue May 23, 2017 11:15 am)

To Darkshine -

On the process of cremation - Mattogno wrote an article on the question of cremation at Auschwitz - called "The Cremation Ovens of Auschwitz" and he examines different models of ovens and what they could do. The Topf models at Auschwitz took an hour or more to cremate a body. He wrote that the ovens needed to be maintained, and after a number of cremations they needed to be re-built, or re-bricked. Mattogno asserted that the workers worked the ovens in 12 hour shifts, not round-the-clock.

Ivan Lagace, an expert on cremation at Ernst Zundel's trial, also debunked the fevered scenario of non-stop cremation of bodies. (There used to be a video on the internet "Cremation vs Holocaust" in which Lagace talks at length about the problems of non-stop cremation.) He debunked the assertion that two or more bodies could be cremated in one oven - the ovens are not designed to cremate multiple bodies at a time.

To Hannover

I read the post on the alleged process of industrialized killing, the schematic, and all the problems associated with the story. I had wondered about the "undressing rooms" (#3) - is it possible that this room was where corpses were undressed before autopsy? and were part of the design for mortuaries? Why else would there be undressing rooms attached to morgues? Maybe the room was for the medical staff who did autopsies.

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby Hannover » 1 year 6 months ago (Tue May 23, 2017 12:08 pm)

Ginger:
To Hannover
I read the post on the alleged process of industrialized killing, the schematic, and all the problems associated with the story. I had wondered about the "undressing rooms" (#3) - is it possible that this room was where corpses were undressed before autopsy? and were part of the design for mortuaries? Why else would there be undressing rooms attached to morgues? Maybe the room was for the medical staff who did autopsies.

Indeed, all that is correct.

Regards, Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny. The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby Tommo » 1 year 6 months ago (Sun May 28, 2017 2:14 am)

This site HDOT is a prick of a site. They allow no comementary on the matter, as do any of such sites, Controversies allows comments only FOR them and screens/disallows any denier comeback.

What they present is usually in such a way to trick the average viewer that we're just insane.

Probably works a treat.
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby hermod » 1 year 6 months ago (Sun May 28, 2017 10:50 am)

Hannover wrote:Ginger:
To Hannover
I read the post on the alleged process of industrialized killing, the schematic, and all the problems associated with the story. I had wondered about the "undressing rooms" (#3) - is it possible that this room was where corpses were undressed before autopsy? and were part of the design for mortuaries? Why else would there be undressing rooms attached to morgues? Maybe the room was for the medical staff who did autopsies.

Indeed, all that is correct.


Or there was never any undressing room but only what the blueprints tell about that room - i.e. a morgue (Leichenkeller).
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby ginger » 1 year 6 months ago (Sun May 28, 2017 2:40 pm)

Hi hermod -

The thought recently occurred to me - that the undressing rooms were for undressing corpses and they were a standard part of the morgue design. Do you know of a blueprint that shows an undressing room - where the room is marked "undressing room" and is a standard part of a morgue? Is it accessible online?

The Official Narrative makes much of the undressing room as a first step into the gas chamber - if the room was a usual part of the morgue the fact would go far in contradicting the Official Narrative.

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby hermod » 1 year 6 months ago (Sun May 28, 2017 7:09 pm)

ginger wrote:The thought recently occurred to me - that the undressing rooms were for undressing corpses and they were a standard part of the morgue design. Do you know of a blueprint that shows an undressing room - where the room is marked "undressing room" and is a standard part of a morgue? Is it accessible online?


I don't know of any such blueprints. Can't help you on this.

The Official Narrative makes much of the undressing room as a first step into the gas chamber - if the room was a usual part of the morgue the fact would go far in contradicting the Official Narrative.


Yes it would. But I doubt that a room for undressing corpses would have been as large as that room. I still think that it was a morgue.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby Hannover » 1 year 6 months ago (Mon May 29, 2017 2:33 pm)

The German blueprints / plans specify 'leichenkeller', morgue.

There is a German document where Auschwitz physician Dr. Eduard Wirths uses the term "undressing room".

Pressac uses "undressing room" in his diagram, see:
Jean-Claude Pressac and the War Refugee Board Report
By Carlo Mattogno
a must read at:
http://codoh.com/library/document/2314/?lang=en

ex.:
Image
Figure 4. "Schéma (diagram) 2" in Pressac (op.cit, p. 463), Crematorium II with the stable-type hut erected in the yard to serve as a provisional undressing room, as per drawing no. 2216 of 20/3/43. (A = Furnace room; B = stable-type hut/provisional undressing room; B' = morgue 2/undressing room; C = gas chamber or morgue 1; e = future location of stairway leading to underground undressing room [not indicated on Pressacss diagram]; E = elevator; R = narrow-gauge railway.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby ginger » 1 year 6 months ago (Tue May 30, 2017 1:37 pm)

So that the undressing room - #1- was not a small room leading to the gas chambers but a room as large as a gas chamber but only partly shown on the schematic in Hannover's post. Why would a morgue have such a large room attached? I would need to study Mattogno and Pressac and they are hard reading for me.

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby oerr » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:09 pm)

Darkshine wrote:A new body can be added in the "last 20 minutes" of the previous burn cycle, after it is already so cremated, the remains fall through a grid, and continue burning for another 20 minutes. "In the last 20 minutes." At the very least, this means that it would have had to take 40 minutes before it fell through and burned for another 20 minutes. That is 60 minutes total. More likely, it took longer. However they go on to further obfuscate the truth by claiming: "According to Topf’s calculations this would result in a 25-minute burning cycle for each body.[11]" Which they have already disproven by their preceding paragraph!


When you see that
1) …new body can be added in the "last 20 minutes",
2) …this would result 25-minute burning cycle for each body,

it means that time to burn one particular body is 45 minutes (although "burning cycle for each body" maybe quite misleading, see below).

But "burning cycle" is still 25-minute. Why? Because in this process you actually are burning two bodies at the same time (the first one is over grid, the second one is below grid). After the very first body had its 25 minutes over grid and felt below the grid (for another 20 minutes), you can add a new body, and you can do it every 25 minutes—this is what meant to be "25-minute cycle" (with 45 minutes to completely burn one body).

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby Breker » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:45 pm)

oerr:
The crematoria 'ovens' could not have functioned that way.
See Hannover's quotes in 2nd post of this thread.

And from the interrogations of Topf engineers by the Soviet SMERSH between 1946 and 1948, as were published by Gerald Fleming, the always lovely Hannover quoted from:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10214&p=76881&hilit=hannover+prufer#p76881

"How many bodies were cremated per hour at Auschwitz?"

Prüfer (builder of the crematorium) responded:
"In a crematory with 5 ovens and 15 muffles, fifteen bodies were cremated."
This means an average cremation time of one hour per body per muffle and indicates that the theoretical maximum capacity of Crematory IV (and each of the ovens of Crematory V as well) in a 24 hour period was 192 bodies.

At his interrogation on 19th March 1946 Prüfer elaborated as follows:[28]

"I have mentioned the enormous load to which the overtaxed ovens were subjected. I told Chief Engineer Sander I was worried about whether the ovens could withstand the excessive load. In my presence, two bodies were placed in one muffle, instead of a single body, and the ovens were unable to handle the load"

and:
SS Kurt Prufer, told the officers of SMERSCH (according to documents found in the Moscow archives) that only one body at a time could be cremated per muffle and that the cremation time took 60 minutes, and that they tried to cremate 2 bodies at a time; but the temperature inside the muffle went so high that it damaged the oven.
and:
- There was a total 52 muffles of Auschwitz, never used simultaneously.

- 38 is the most that were ever online simultaneously.


- The 6 at Auschwitz I were taken out of action as soon as the new ones at Birkenau came online. These were in turn liable to long periods of breakdowns and even idleness.

- If there was a program of mass extermination, the desperate need for cremation capacity is obvious. Why then put six muffles out of action?


- In August 1942, at the main camp, 9000 prisoners died. According to Believer & profiteer John Zimmerman, Auschwitz I would have had a cremation capacity of about 4,680 per month (26 per muffle daily on average, as at Gusen).
So the cremation capacity was about half of what it needed to be during the typhus epidemic.
At the same time, the camp was planned to hold an eventual inmate population of 200,000 (a seven-fold increase from August 1942, at less than 30,000).
Therefore, in August 1942, the very month that 'Auschwitz expert' van Pelt claims the homicidal adaptation of the crematoria was initiated, the Auschwitz Bauleitung authorities should have requested a crematoria construction program which should have produced capacities almost 14 times greater than the 6 muffles of Auschwitz I at the time. In 1943, when the camp population reached about 140,000, the number of muffles was just over 6 times greater than August 1942, because Crematorium IV broke down and was not repaired (mothballed) and Crematorium I at the main camp was converted into an air-raid shelter. There were 38 muffles.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Destroying Holocaust Denial on Trial in SECONDS.

Postby Hekmatyar » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:27 am)

The article on hdot seems to mix two different approaches to the problem.

First, they remind everyone that some time ago, when the 4 million figure was a thing, the witnesses used to talk about 4 to 8 bodies in on muffle (and less than 30 minutes for that batch).

Next, the stacked cremation with a 20 minute cycle is from a book from "Zimmerman".
20 minutes and perfect uptime would be enough to reach a high enough number of the new total victim count.
Besides that the perfect uptime in unrealistic and disproven, this is not what the eye witness said, they did not talk about this kind of stacked cremation in Auschwitz!
It still would limit the capacity of the gas chamber to about 15(muffles)*3(per h)*21(h/day) = 945 per day and thus further contradict more witnesses.
Also it is still at odds with the famous "4756 in 24h" document.
So why are Zimmermans revisions and contradicts of the previous claims ok?
Mattongo answers Zimmerman's book specifically and thoroughly in the Holocaust Handbook "Auschwitz Lies".

A "destroy in in seconds" answer might go like this:
"No matter where the partially cremated corpse lies in the muffle, and no matter when you add more "content" - only about 50-60kg flesh in one hour could be cremated. The cremation of the partially remaining pieces below the grid would still take away energy that is missing for the cremation of the new body."

Now, as a response to the fixed value of kg/h you may get something like this thrown into your face:
https://www.wastespectrum.com/hurikan-1000
This thing allows for a up to 1000kg/h! The difference: It apparently allows for higher temperatures and it has more than 10 times the volumn than the WWII generation ovens ...

Most waste incinnerators that are more similar in size, are specified with the 50kg/h rate.
https://www.wastespectrum.com/volkan-500
https://www.wastespectrum.com/volkan-2000

Certainty would only come when one rebuilds the Auschwitz furnaces and does some cremations. But I suppose that the generous supporters of hdot would not be willing to pay for such an experiment, as they fear that this will end in an embarrassment for the them. They are perfectly content with just guilt-tripping the reader and putting the sceptic "on trial" ....


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