Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

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Tommo
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Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby Tommo » 2 years 3 months ago (Mon May 22, 2017 9:28 am)

I've never seen any kind of study yet on the logistical feasibility of rounding up all the Jew's from German occupied Europe, loading them all onto trains in addition to all other civilian/military traffic, and driving them all to this apparent "focal point".

What would be the fuel requirements for such a transport?
What are the alleged density, frequency etc of such transports (how do they MAKE it work?)
Would there be any logisitical issue to have transported, in the space of a year or so or whatever it was supposed to be, the entire numerical equivalent of ONE AND A HALF of my entire city which is "Adelaide", from everywhere across Europe, not nicely from one place, converging on this one spot in Poland basically??

I think this is just another "hole in the lie"??

Anyone?
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby borjastick » 2 years 3 months ago (Mon May 22, 2017 10:41 am)

Tommo

If the numbers are correct, let's say 1.7m, and assuming 5000 per train load then it would only be 350 trainloads. Over the period of Treblinka it is entirely feasible. In London over 3m people per day use the Tube system. I think your question is valid and would be interested if you find some stats one way or the other. However wartime logistics are often staggering. D-Day landings for example. I believe the figure was in the region of 100,000 men and machines on the first day alone.
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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby Depth Charge » 2 years 3 months ago (Mon May 22, 2017 4:06 pm)

Adolf Eichmann pondered the same thing, when he laughed off allegations of a 'holocaust';

If you're going to ship five or six million Jews across Europe to Auschwitz at that time, let me tell you how many trains that would have taken ... You're not only going to have trains going that way full of Jews, you're going to have empty trains coming back. And you're going to have to have a circulation time, a time where they're unloading at one end, a time where they're loading at the other end... You're going to need so many thousands of wagons. This alone proves that Rudolf H_ss was talking through his hat. These figures are totally fantastic, and what the hell is Höss up to?


Where does Höss believe that he got these two and a half million Jews? Not from me. Because to have liquidated two and a half million decrepit, elderly, unworkable Jews, I must have had to feed to him three, four, five, six or seven million Jews in that space of time, and from the transport point of view alone this would have been totally impossible.


http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n2p14_irving.html

Consider the lunacy of the so-called 'holocaust' further; the German war machine was in dire need of powered transport. In 1943 75% of German military transport was horse-drawn, despite all the glamorous movies making them look like unstoppable earth-destroyers.

So why would precious locomotives and railcars be used on an internal genocide program? It doesn't even begin to make sense, first because you wouldn't bother moving them over silly distances. Second because you wouldn't attempt it when the good money is on you losing the war, ergo facing conviction. And third, because you don't have the damn logistics to move them around.

None of these inconvenient truths occurred to any of the evil liars.

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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby Breker » 2 years 3 months ago (Mon May 22, 2017 8:34 pm)

Tommo:
Besides wanting many Jews relocated out of western & central Europe, which AFAIK is not debated, these people were direly needed for their war time labor. Therefore the associated costs of transport would have been worth it.
So I'm guessing that you feel the Hofle Telegram is a fraud? If so, why?
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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby Tommo » 2 years 3 months ago (Tue May 23, 2017 12:56 am)

Breker wrote:Tommo:
Besides wanting many Jews relocated out of western & central Europe, which AFAIK is not debated, these people were direly needed for their war time labor. Therefore the associated costs of transport would have been worth it.
So I'm guessing that you feel the Hofle Telegram is a fraud? If so, why?
B.


I made a recent thread regarding the Hoefle telegram just a few below this one. I'm unsure whether it is a fraud or not, but it's certainly very suspect.

In the event that that document is real, we'd still have to marry it with real evidence too. How do we even know that those letters stood for what they are claimed to? And "T" may well have been 70,000 not 700,000, therefore halving the figure already even if it was transport figures.

^There may be perfectly reasonable explanations I am unaware of here, I'm only just learning this stuff.

I understand the requirement for labour and the policy to expel, and to imprison the Jew's.

What's alleged however is that far in excess of that required for labour was shuttled East. Now that may have been so.

I'm just saying we should look into the logistics of that.

The other guy above me (the first response) stated that with 5000 Jew's per train it could have been accomplished in 350 loads.

The Reinhard camps were operating for what, 2 years at most?

Assuming they all came from one spot on 1 train at this capacity at a time, 1 of these trains arrived at Treblinka (being half the Reinhardt holocaust) every 4 days. That's knocking off 1250 people every day at T2 for a full 2 years straight uninterrupted. Hmm.

It's difficult to believe this number of Jew's were brought in from thoughout the Reich in a more ordinary number of people per train. I posed this question because I have heard of trains of 300 arriving etc, which would make the stations constantly abuzz with that activity.

I just thought there might be good evidence for this alleged exodus at this scale, 10x that of labour for example, to have occurred (unless that presumption is wrong).
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby hermod » 2 years 3 months ago (Tue May 23, 2017 6:49 am)

The same logistics was needed to slaughter them and to expel them, with the extra fuel allegedly used to gas them to death (exterminationist thesis) available to transport them further (revisionist thesis). But when taking the obliteration operation of the exterminationist thesis into consideration, its logistics became gargantuan because of the mountains of firewood required for so many outdoor cremations.

The number of Jews involved in the Reinhardt operation (whatever it was) was perhaps a logistical impossibility. (This would require that the Korherr report be a forgery.) But I don't think that it was a logistical impossibility. After all, the Germans were able to evacuate many millions of ethnic Germans during the last months of WW2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_ev ... rld_War_II), at a time when many infrastructures in Europe had been destroyed.
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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby Shade-Knight » 2 years 3 months ago (Tue May 23, 2017 8:13 am)

[moved from topic:
Hoefle Telegram
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11146
M1]

Tommo wrote:A thought occurred to me also. 1.5 million Jew's being moved to or through these camps whatever.. That's a lot of people.

Has any revisionist ever done a study on the actual credibility of all these Jews being transported by train? Or whether there is enough evidence to even support that that many Jew's WERE in fact transported, not just records, but also, say, regular photographs ground and air of trains?

That's a great deal of people 1.5 million by train for a nation forced to make petrol out of fuckin coal just to survive! I'm not sure if the logisitics of that many trips even works out, I don't think it does.


To calculate that, we would need the exact number of freight cars and locomotives at Germany's disposal from 1939 to 1945 on a "per year" basis, their fuel consumption rate compared to fuel production and importation rate (or total available reserves per year), as well as the exact amount of trains allocated to the 'Holocaust' versus the number of freight trains utilized to grease the German economy and war machine - transporting resources and/or products, vehicles, fresh recruits, recovering wounded, transportation of prisoners from the front to camps. Oh, and distance plus speed and the time of day these trains were used.

I may have stated that which is obvious, but I do wonder if anyone has the exact numbers for all of these.
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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby Kingfisher » 2 years 3 months ago (Thu May 25, 2017 12:54 am)

hermod wrote:The number of Jews involved in the Reinhardt operation (whatever it was) was perhaps a logistical impossibility. (This would require that the Korherr report be a forgery.)

It would, but even if we accept that the transports took place Korherr later denied the interpretation that was placed upon the document:
In a letter he sent to the German magazine Der Spiegel in July 1977, Korherr said that he had not written the report on Himmler’s order”[4] and that the “statement that I had mentioned that over a million Jews had died in the camps of the Generalgouvernement and the Warthegau through special treatment is also inaccurate. I must protest against the word ‘died’ in this context. It was the very word ‘Sonderbehandlung’ [‘special treatment’] that led me to call the RSHA by phone and ask what this word meant. I was given the answer that these were Jews who were settled in the Lublin district.”[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korherr_Report#Post-war

Of course Wikipedia is a secondary or even tertiary source, but the primary source should not be too difficult to trace if anyone disputes it.
Der Spiegel, Der SPIEGEL, Nr. 31, 25. Juli 1977, S. 12.

[Korherr letter to Der Spiegel here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8575&p=65807&hilit=SPIEGEL+hannover+korherr#p65807
- Moderator]


Incidentally, if Korherr were alive and to make such a statement today wouldn't he be prosecuted for Holocaust Denial?

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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby hermod » 2 years 3 months ago (Thu May 25, 2017 9:13 am)

Kingfisher wrote:
hermod wrote:The number of Jews involved in the Reinhardt operation (whatever it was) was perhaps a logistical impossibility. (This would require that the Korherr report be a forgery.)

It would, but even if we accept that the transports took place Korherr later denied the interpretation that was placed upon the document:


I know that. But that doesn't change this topic, i.e. the feasibility or impossibility of Operation Reinhardt (= ejection + dispossession of X thousands of Jews) for the number of Jews reported by Korherr and Hoefle.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby Kingfisher » 2 years 3 months ago (Thu May 25, 2017 2:48 pm)

hermod wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:
hermod wrote:The number of Jews involved in the Reinhardt operation (whatever it was) was perhaps a logistical impossibility. (This would require that the Korherr report be a forgery.)

It would, but even if we accept that the transports took place Korherr later denied the interpretation that was placed upon the document:


I know that. But that doesn't change this topic, i.e. the feasibility or impossibility of Operation Reinhardt (= ejection + dispossession of X thousands of Jews) for the number of Jews reported by Korherr and Hoefle.

Yes, I acknowledged that with my first two words :"It would."
Of course I figured this would not be news to you, but it might be for some readers, and is worth mentioning.

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Re: Transport logistics to Treblinka/Belzec/Sobibor (train), was it possible/probable?

Postby hermod » 2 years 3 months ago (Fri May 26, 2017 10:30 am)

Kingfisher wrote:Of course I figured this would not be news to you, but it might be for some readers, and is worth mentioning.


It is. Indeed.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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